Introducing the iTrader Feedback System

[Ryan]

Hello everyone,

The third addition of the day: iTrader Feedback System.

iTrader is an eBay-style rating system that allows you to leave feedback for buyers, sellers, and traders who participate in "The Marketplace" area of the forum.

You may post feedback for a person by clicking on the link next to their iTrader rating -- this can be found in several places: in their profile (clicking on their username), in their user info next to each post they make, and in the Members List which is linked from the blue bar at the top of the forum.

To review feedback that others have left for you, click on the "iTrader" drop-down menu at the top of the forum.

DO NOT ABUSE THIS FEEDBACK SYSTEM! Each member who is reading this message has read the new forum rules, which includes the usage for this feedback system. If you would like to read the rules again, you may find them here:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//rules/itrader.html

All feedback is monitored. Feedback is not to be based on second-hand information or hearsay. Only leave feedback if you have had a direct transaction with someone!

Any slander, flaming, or otherwise inappropriate feedback will be deleted, no questions asked.

If you have any questions, please post them here and I'll do my best to answer them as best I can.

Ryan

[Kindredspirit]

Ryan~

Okay....To recap...there is no negative feed back? Only positive? Or just not abusive? And you can only leave feedback if you directly, personally bought fish from the mentioned seller??


Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_10.gif

[Discusgeo2]

Marie didn't your read what you agreed to before click the accept button


Okay....To recap...there is no negative feed back?Only positive? Or just not abusive?
It doesn't say you can't post negative just not abusive

iTrader, an electronic feedback system, is in place to better serve members of the SimplyDiscus community by allowing them to leave, respond to, and review feedback regarding purchases and trades within this forum. Please use this system for all feedback rather than posting it on the main forum. The feedback system is not to be abused.



And you can only leave feedback if you directly, personally bought fish from the mentioned seller??

* Feedback is only allowed on transactions between Buyers and Sellers! Second-hand feedback or feedback based on hearsay is not allowed.

[Ryan]

You can leave negative feedback if you truly had a bad experience, but I don't want people leaving nasty comments or trying to bash or flame someone. Too often on discus boards, people use systems like this to take out personal vendettas against those who they dislike. That is NOT what this system is for.

This system is for commercial ratings... if you had a dealing with someone and want to rate their products and services. It's not to share your personal feelings about a particular member.

And yes, only leave feedback if you personally had the dealing with a buy/seller/trader. No second-hand knowledge, like, "I heard so-and-so got bad fish from this person." That's hearsay and you can't offer proof.

Ryan

[Kindredspirit]

Thanks Ryan!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/18/18_1_34.gif




I knew you would add more in Plain English!



Marie~

[brewmaster15]

Hi Everyone,
For years now we have been asked to allow feedback, both positive and negative on the forum. It has always been one my biggest hang ups when I see people flaming and bashing others over transactions that they were not even part of...Little good comes from it. Still, we want to try to give everyone a way to express their experiences so that good sellers can thrive and sellers with less than a stellar performance can have a bit of incentive to improve.... so Ryan and I settled on this itrader system, which we think will go a long way towards addressing these needs.

You may want to really think about what you write when you post these experiences... I would suggest if you have a problem with a seller that you post the feedback after all resolutions were attempted...then you can state the problem and any resolutions that occurred.

I have always felt that the feedback given on the forums can be a little one sided... The positives aren't an issue...but alot of the negatives don't get reported... not because they can't be mentioned or aren't allowed...but because of the "politics" and the realization that good sellers can sell bad fish unintentionally..it happens. Also theres those cases where you are on good terms with a seller, or just don't like making waves... How you all handle these occasions is up to you.In an ideal world we would all be 100% honest regardless of who the seller is... best we can hope for is getting a general sense of who reputable and whose not.

We'll give this system a try and see how it works.... I ask everyone to follow the rules we have set, and to not use this system to attack anyone...If that happens..I'm not going to be a real happy camper about it.;)

One last thing for now.. This system only works for members. I would suggest that you encourage those you buy from to become members here if they are not already. If they not members... we will allow experiences to be posted but only a persons first hand experiences.There will still be zero tolerance for flaming.

I hope this system is something the majority of you like, and I would like to hear your thoughts on it as its put into use. Please remember that this is going to be a little strange for all of us to get used to..but if its going to be useful...It has to be used... so please post that feedback about transactions.

Thanks,
al

ps.. Thanks Ryan for putting it together!:)

[brewmaster15]

okay some examples here of negative feedback...just so we are all on the same page...

okay... examples...


Purchased discus from acmediscus, fish arrived dead and rotting, seller was a royal @#@!#!#@#@#@#@# and is a @#@#@#@#%%. This seller needs to be strung up by$%#$^%^%&^%&^ and shot...His mother and Father are Sc#@$#%

Thats a no go...sorry if you honestly feel it is true...

but ...
Purchased discus from acmediscus, fish arrived dead and rotting, seller was not a great person to work with. Wouldn't refund or replace, got very angry and abusive when I tried to talk to him.. Highly advise to stay away.

something like that is fine.

or
I got fish from acmediscus.. had parasites, lab confirmed, contact me for results..Tried to work it out with seller, and it wasn't a great experience but did get back X amount of money.

thats good too.

Basically... stated experiences minus the vulgarities and other things our forum rules don't allow like personal attacks, slander, and swearing..

If anyone wants to post a negative feedback and wants an opinion first on if its okay... you can ask me or any of the moderators here by pm before posting it.

Hth,
-al

[brewmaster15]

One other thing...The feedback system works both ways...Sellers are able to leave feedback for buyers.....please be sure to do so when applicable.

So what does everyone think?

-al

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I think it looks excellent and very professional.

Great job implementing it and hopefully it work smoothly causing no extra work for the great mods and owner here.

Looks to be a great addition to an already great website!!

[Greg Richardson]

Not allowing others to pile on is the key to cutting down the politics.

Also helps the wars between Discus Sellers who haven't a clue about how to build a business.

In otherwords they think if they get enough people to slam someone or on other side of the coin to build them up they will get more business.

All that crap going down when all they had to do is put out good fish and if a mistake is made turn a negative into a positive.

Business 101 that few understand unfortunately.

Like all new activities it will take some time to get the kinks out as some won't understand the process, or want to understand it. LOL!

Good job guys!

Give it some time it will work.

[traco]

And again, that is why I like Simply!:D You guys have put a lot of thought, time and effort into this forum and it shows. It is also nice to see new ideas and concepts come along too.

Hats off to you hard workers. I look forward to these new ideas.

[wvt9527]

Ok were is the itrader at.
You know I have something to say.


Walter

[Ryan]

I explained it in the first post.

Ryan

[Greg Richardson]

Tim.
It still seems like it will get out of control easily.

I disagree with that. If I understand the rules correctly it is only one post for negative and one for positive.
These wars between each other that go on for days on other forums they have taken that factor out.


it will just be sellers against sellers, and how can we varify if the claims by the consumer are really accurate..Of course the seller will deny everything and the buyer will be certain he is right.

One consumer may have a bad experience while the very next consumer from the same seller will say how great the fish are. I dont think this will be a productive addition.


In any business this can take place.
Example would be how many times have u heard someone say the Steak House was terrible when u have heard great things about it.

So how do u decide in regards to taking your chances with going to dinner there?

Most would consider the source and how they described the situation.

How many times do u read between the lines with how people react to good or bad on these forums and are able to figure it out?

No system is perfect.

Not possible.

Yet, for the good of the hobby a system needs to be in place.

From what I can see this one has been well thought out.

I say give it a chance.

[RyanH]

It still seems like it will get out of control easily. Because there is much behind the scenes activity at Simply, it will just be sellers against sellers, and how can we varify if the claims by the consumer are really accurate..Of course the seller will deny everything and the buyer will be certain he is right.

One consumer may have a bad experience while the very next consumer from the same seller will say how great the fish are. I dont think this will be a productive addition.

Tim

Hi Tim,

You are correct in the short run. No seller will please every customer and there will most certainly be a few attempted smear campaigns. However, in the long run, we'll start to see trends. When a seller gets 150 positives and 1 or 2 negatives over the course of months and years, this should be a pretty good indication that this seller is reputable and indeed tries to do right with their customers.

Likewise, if there is a seller that gets poor feedback time and again from multiple customers, something is up and you should probably stay away.

In the long run this can only help the hobby and the reputable sellers IMO, because hobbyists will become better informed consumers.

-Ryan

[cobaltblue]

I like the idea. Should be a great tool. Thanks for all the hard work that went into this ryan and al.

[candyl70]

I think it sounds like a good idea too. Plus the mods won't let it get out of hand. It can be great for the new discus keeper, and the more experienced as well. If this section is like the rest, then I think it will be a great addition.

Good luck guys!


Candy

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I like it .......... its just like ebays setup and like ryan said once you get enough feedback it will balance out so others can get a general concensus of the type of seller your dealing with.

And just like on ebay .......... you wont be able to please everyone all the time. Ive sold about 50 items on ebay with most all giving positive feedback but then you geta guy like i had that gave me negative feedback and saying my delivery was slow. Well the guy got his item in less than a week after sending payment! You just cant please everyone i guess .... lol.

But i still have like a 98.7 percent feedback rating which is very good IMO for this type of system. The more good feedback you get keeps bringing up your rating to counter a couple bad ones.

EDIT: After writing that i was curious to know exactly what my ebay rating was cause i was just guessing ...... and its actually showing 100% Positive feedback. Not quite sure how thats possible if i got a negative feedback so i looked and it was actually a neutral feedback that was left which doesnt hurt your rating.

[Kindredspirit]

Not allowing others to pile on is the key to cutting down the politics.
Also helps the wars between Discus Sellers who haven't a clue about how to build a business.

In otherwords they think if they get enough people to slam someone or on other side of the coin to build them up they will get more business.

All that crap going down when all they had to do is put out good fish and if a mistake is made turn a negative into a positive.

Business 101 that few understand unfortunately.

Like all new activities it will take some time to get the kinks out as some won't understand the process, or want to understand it. LOL!

Good job guys!

Give it some time it will work.



Perfectly well said to a tee, Greg! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_55.gif Sometimes you manage to put into words exactly how I feel~



Your A Good Man Charlie Brown~


Marie~

[kaceyo]

I like it. There seems to be enough checks in place to keep people with an agenda from manipulating the system. At the same time it allows for valuable info for both buyer and seller. The more people that use it to give feedback, the more accurate the end results become. Well done.

Kacey

[discusfire4]

Can we leave feedback of a vendor who use to be a sponser here?

[Ryan]

As long as they are currently a member.

Ryan

[discusfire4]

As long as they are currently a member.

Ryan


If they are registered with Simply, then they are a member, correct?

[Ryan]

Yes, anyone who is a registered member, Sponsor, Mod, or otherwise.

Ryan

[Emperor]

In general and on average this system should work on the level it is intended to, just like many others have said it resembles other places like ebay and so on. With regard to positive comments eventually outweighing the negative ones, I have only one small caution on this. It has been my experience that as a rule of thumb the quantity and types of comments can be at the very least an adequate measure, but.... there is also the issue of sellers posting feedback to themselves under false pretenses. For example some will use pseudonyms or they will get their friends to post feedback for them also. It is only a small caution, which I do not feel should outweigh the system in place.
Another thing to keep in mind for those sellers who have problem customers, this system should allow for you to be able to leave feedback about how they have dealt with you. Which in turn, if you are reputable, then other sellers will be cautious to even deal with such a customer.
My final point would be to the moderators of this forum, I'm sure I don't have to tell you this but should the flaming/trashing/bad-mouthing and so on, get out of hand.... revoke their membership to the forum. I have been involved in operating, moderating and advising in several forums, my experience has been that the best way to stop things like that from occurring is to banish them into the dark bowels of cyberspace. :grin:

[Kindredspirit]

there is also the issue of sellers posting feedback to themselves under false pretenses.


Can they actually do that and get away with it? I wld hope that there are checks in place to prevent this ~



some will use pseudonyms or they will get their friends to post feedback for them also.

That may look suspicious ....wouldnt it? I wonder if people would actually go so low ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_5_33.gif

[Timbo]

Can they actually do that and get away with it? I wld hope that there are checks in place to prevent this ~ there is no way marie. the best that can be done is matching up ip's and there are several very easy methods to defeat that.





That may look suspicious ....wouldnt it?
how would it look suspicious? there are very few (if any) negative feedbacks on i trader here. i think it is of very limited use.

[brewmaster15]

Hi,

The system does account for many of these concerns.. Although I can not double check every feed back that has been made..I do make it a habit to read all the sponsors feedback. I get an automated notice if theres a negative posted, and I read all the positives.. I check on anything that looks suspicious like members that only have one post here... . I also get automatic notices when people post multiple feedbacks in " X" amount of time.

The best I can do is suggest that anyone thinking of buying from a sponsor... read all their feedback... and then read the back posts of the person that has posted that feedback. You can learn alot from them.. Next pick a few of the members that have been here the longest and just drop them a PM and ask them about their transaction and if they have posted any pictures yet.

lastly, If you have concerns about a sponsor...start by talking with them... and If you really are unsure..I would try a different sponsor...You should feel comfortable with who you are dealing with.



My final point would be to the moderators of this forum, I'm sure I don't have to tell you this but should the flaming/trashing/bad-mouthing and so on, get out of hand.... revoke their membership to the forum. I have been involved in operating, moderating and advising in several forums, my experience has been that the best way to stop things like that from occurring is to banish them into the dark bowels of cyberspacewe do this when needed..



Another thing to keep in mind for those sellers who have problem customers, this system should allow for you to be able to leave feedback about how they have dealt with you. Which in turn, if you are reputable, then other sellers will be cautious to even deal with such a customer.


It does.... Both Buyers and sellers can leave positive, negative or neutral feedback......In addition to the feedback that all the forum can read..There is an additional section that a lengthy reply can be made ..This reply is viewable only for the buyer/seller and admins here... and is an excellent way to document what has happened...



hth,
al

[brewmaster15]

Just for the record...

I have heard from several members that they don't think the system is useful because there are so few negatives.. I have said this before... I will say it now... The tools are yours..If you chose to not make a public statement when you are unhappy...The fault is not I-traders , simplydiscus, or Mine... It is your own fault... Do not criticise the system if you are one of these individuals. It does take a lot to come forward and post a negative feedback... and not everyone will....likewise there are many here who don't post positives either...

The system is a gauge..its not perfect....and not meant to be...

lets put things into perspective though..The system is still relatively new... to date... here's the facts...

276 feedbacks have been given
2 negatives
0 neutrals

Total members rated ...96
(out of a possible 7011 registered members)

I think its a little premature to comment on what works and doesn't. If I had access to the percent positive to negative that ebay sees, I would guess theres a tremendous number of more positives, than negatives... From what I can tell, most of ebays sellers fall in the 95-100% range for postives... we are at 99.3%I do alot of trading on ebay... and have never been burned by an Ebay member with lots of positives... and the few times I have had an issue, the ebay member always worked with me... I always feel safest buying from them.. I know its not a guarantee... but what is?.. My point is..The system here does what its supposed to do.


Some history...
When we started this forum 4 years ago, we allowed people to post all their experiences... anytime a negative came up... a flame war followed where members who were not even involved in the transaction commented and attacked...Politics used these wars to discredit competitors.... This was not what we wanted so we went with a system that allowed all positives posted, but negatives could only be sent by Pms, thus removing it from the forum.

We then purchased thisI-trader system to address a concern voiced by many......some members wanted a way to post positive and negative feedback ... as owners Ryan an I did not want the headache and liability of dealing with flame wars..so we chose an ebay like system..

At this point in time, you all have a way to post your feedback, and help the forum maintain reputable sellers. Ryan and I feel we have done more than enough to meet your needs here..... The rest is up to you... Use the system or not, post the truth or not. I can't force anyone to post a negative..I can only give you the means to do so...If you refuse...Its not my concern here, its your personal decision... but it should not be made into a reflection of the forum or the system...

I-trader works fine... Just like your cars seatbelts work fine...when used..

thanks,
al

[Kindredspirit]

Ryan and I feel we have done more than enough to meet your needs here

thanks,
al



Absolutely Al ~


.... and don't let anyone ever tell you or make you feel otherwise ~ This site is FREE ~ People lose sight of that fact and expect more from a place they offer nothing ~

IMO you and Ryan shld be Proud ~ and stop trippin over small potatoes ~



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_5_118.gif