SOME BLack

[architect1]

How do you get your discus to stop being black. I have had them for a month now and some are still vary black and small. Is it worms or what. I hate seeing them so black.

[candyl70]

What symptoms are you seeing other than them being black?

To start, what are your water pm's and is your tank BB or gravel. You might need to get a hospital tank if graveled.

When they stay black, it means they are very sick and not feeling well. Where they always like that?

[hexed]

Can I ask what your perimeters are and what your tank looks like? I was reading your other thread and see that they are very shy. Do you have any decorations in your tank?
I will tell you what I do with new discus. I sit in front of the tank want watch them for like 45 minutes at a time. I want them to get use to me. I do this at every feeding when I can. Sometimes I have to go to work so I just feed and leave. Once they are use to you, they will be watching your every step.
Glad to see you removed the slate because they were getting injured from it. If you have substrate in the tank be sure you vacuum every single spot of the substrate when you clean the tank -- this is very important! Do not use anything dark in or around the tank, like a dark background or dark decorations. These will keep the discus dark so they "blend" into them. I have a small piece of driftwood and one of my discus always stays next to it and turns black to blend into the wood. When I go over he swims to me and changes his color. I have grown out my discus in a substrate tank, but find it much much easier to do it in a BB tank. The reason is younger discus get illnesses much easier then adults and to treat them for the illness is so much easier without the substrate. I am not telling anyone how to do his/her tank but just letting them know which is the easiest route for young ones.
Frank

[architect1]

My tank peramiters are perfect 0,0 ph of 7.4 everything else is perfect. I can see the black stone being a problem. I also can see The deep ocean back ground to. Like its not just black they switch once and a while between one another. there in my room so they see me 24/7 and soon 365 they all eat deepends ont ehre mood that day. Non of them are hiding.

My other tank has baby blu8e substragt and I like it better because my blue dimonds are more blue. I don't think I'm ever going to use natural substrate anymore unless I go wild. My tank is a planted. i will post pics soon. Could it be worms. I donno it is a different fish each day or every other day. There not hidding anymore I'm thinking about putting the slight back in.

[hexed]

Ok, I am confused. You said they cut themselves on the slate so why would you put it back in?

[candyl70]

Hmmmm..... ok. But you still haven't given any other symtoms that the fish are showing. What does their poo look like?? I'm not sure why you suspect worms, maybe you can elaborate a bit.

[architect1]

Cuase when i would walk in they would run and Hid. Now they know I come in and they do not run away and hide.

I took the ocean backdrop of and wow what a difference I see more of there color and there is only one thats dark.

[architect1]

healthy
they all act like discus nthere just dark the odd one will sit in the valls but other then that they poo all fine swim fine do everything a discus does. right now there chasing the blood worm around.

[candyl70]

Does the dark one get picked on? How many fish in your tank? How big?

You are gunna have to give some more details here, otherwise no one will know how to help you out.

So far I have not a clue as to why your discus are black. Maybe someone else will.

[architect1]

110g tank
14 discus
= picking is nutral
3 rams
6 sea algee eaters
2 yellow plecos

0 ammonia
0 nitrite
15 Nitrate
7.2 ph

Tank is perfect conditions i discus is dark now since I took my back drop off.

[hexed]

I would hold off on putting the slate back in for a little while longer. The one in the val is still trying to hide and blend into it. If you put the slate back in they will hide again on you. Yes your perimeters are fine because it is a planted tank.
The lighter the background the prettier the fish. What kind are they? The last one will come around at his/her own time. Does it lighten up when it comes out of the VAL?
Frank

[hexed]

One more question:

WHERE'S THE PICS OF THE TANK? LMAO!!!!
Frank

[architect1]

no hes dark fins down but the eye is the orange color and hes out in the middle of the tank now. I have 7 Blue ddimonds and 7 blue turqs

[architect1]

theres one pic like 5 days ago.

[hexed]

The background is very dark. Can you try to post one with the lighter background? Can you get a picture of the little dark one?
Frank

[architect1]

another

[architect1]

I took the black back drop of and I'm going to no back ground. i piffer no back ground anyways

[hexed]

What you can try and see if it works is wrapping paper. The back side of wrapping paper is white. Try putting that on the back and see if the little one lightens up. White background usually stops them from darking. Sorry I know I sound like a pain but I like to try everything I can before I suggest any Meds ;)
Frank

[architect1]

its ok i should of done everything frst. Posted all the info. How many fish can you put in 110g tank.

[hexed]

The rule of thumb is 1 discus per 10 gallons so that would mean 11 but you might be able to get away with more. Just remember the bioload will change so you need to watch your perimeters until the tank cycle catches up to it.

[Rod]

Get rid of the sea algae eater, they are mongrel fish especially when they get bigger....no place ina discus tank imo.

[CliffsDiscus]

Check you TDS it might be too high.

Cliff

[architect1]

cause i'm way over the limit. I heard its ok aslong as you do more water changes.

Mongril fish? like a nasty. I have been hearing everyone says there a good fish to have in a tank. I have no problems with them they do there own thing. and there like almost 4 inches.

TDS brake down on that please. its not like another test kit lis it.

[architect1]

Ok since I put in my new drift wood 2 are hidding again and 3 are vary black there the babies the smallest of the bunch. I dont want to take the wood out but I want them to servive I'm at the point to not even care the ones that will eat flaks and color bits will survive the rest who cares.

I dont want to be that mean please help me.

[PFS67]

I had the same problem you are having. I had a BD that was black for a week or two, checked poo, water parameters..everything was fine. Then one morning back to his nice blue colour, he has been fine for that last three weeks..he was about 3 months old.

[Timbo]

i know, i know...but its worth repeating. :) with a bigger bio-load and continuing probs such as you have, you should really consider bb

[White Worm]

Sounds like you are changing things very often (adding and deleting) this will stress the youngsters out. Leave them alone for a while and let them settle down. Constant changes with new fish or decorations or new surroundings and you will continue to stress the little ones. Time to relax seems to be what they need. Adults react better to changes than the babies.

[pcsb23]

Sounds like you are changing things very often (adding and deleting) this will stress the youngsters out. Leave them alone for a while and let them settle down. Constant changes with new fish or decorations or new surroundings and you will continue to stress the little ones. Time to relax seems to be what they need.


Agreed.

Paul.

[architect1]

Yeha i yanked it out and let tem get older. the second I took it out the blue dimonds had no reason to have black in there body and the turqs i finally see perfect turq colors just the scared ones are still hiding but now I know they are in the tank and not dead.

I will leave it alone.

My one tank tho I have mandarin passion and they are hiding behind the sword plants they seem to not eat but yet there not getting thin. I sepertaed them into one side of the tank where there are no plants. is that ok. I just dont want to losee the passions because there 50$ each.

please help.

Thank you8 for your input on the other tank.

[architect1]

I lost 2 one died cause he would not eat the color bits. the other Unknow. But I have seen white poo come out of the dark ones. there is the one little guy fins down black and hidding in the corner but I don't know if its white poo. any ideas?

[RyanH]

Your fish don't look well. It's likely hex resulting from stress and poor water quality. You'll likely need to hit them with a metronidazole treatment. I'd do one of two things:

1. Remove the Discus and put them in a BB hospital tank. Crank up the heat to 92 and treat with metro.

2. Put the Discus in a bucket and get rid of everything in your tank: gravel, driftwood, plants, everything. Clean your tank thoroughly and sanitize it. Put the Discus back in. Leave all other species out. Crank the heat up to 92 and treat with metro.

Salt would also be a good idea.

Get rid of the gravel. Get rid of the plants and driftwood. Remove any fish that aren't Discus. Concentrate on getting your fish healthy and growing again. Once you have things under control, you can start to think about decorations and plants. Until then, it's time to do what's best for your fish: remove the gravel and driftwood. Remove the non-Discus fish.

Did I mention that you should get rid of the gravel? :)

hth
-Ryan

[White Worm]

I was just wondering but maybe he should clear the tank and start over? Maybe remove the gravel Ryan? LMAO :D Lots of bad stuff can accumulate in that gravel. Even a light layer collects more stuff than I thought it would.

[architect1]

my water peramiters are perfect I do enough water changes and My turqouse colors are comming through and also there eyes are orange. I also noticed The turqs hidding there strips like they turn them on and off so I think the tank is fine because 10 of them eat. and the 1 is dark that pic is from when i first got them. I do not have any room for another tank. and I dont have a hospital tank i'm in college and dont have the bif dallers to move them around.

[Dood Lee]

Perhaps the one black discus is just getting bullied? Also, you say your water params are perfect, but I still wonder if maybe you should vaccuum the gravel up and start over. Treating discus for any ailment in a planted tank is very difficult.

One thing, you say you have a planted tank, but from your pics, you barely have any plants at all. Even for a low light tank, that is a pretty low number of plants.

[RyanH]

So you've lost at least two of them already and have others that are black and hiding. Discus don't just die for no reason.

If they are fine, why did you come here and ask for help? I guess I must have missed something. :confused:

[Dood Lee]

So you've lost at least two of them already and have others that are black and hiding. Discus don't just die for no reason.

If they are fine, why did you come here and ask for help? I guess I must have missed something. :confused:

Are all his discus black? I thought it was just one. :confused:

[pcsb23]

Architect,

May I ask you some questions, and please do not be offended. I would ask you to think carefully about what I ask and your responses so take time and consider.

You have posted many threads over the last few months, many about how you are struggling with your discus's health. You posted a pic in this thread with 14 discus in it, you now have 11. 1 of which is ill. Therefore you have already lost 3. 2 which you admit have died.

1) What do you want to do with your discus?
2) Why do you want to keep discus?
3) Do you want to receive sound, sensible helpful advice?
4) Why do you doubt the advice given? Is it because its not what YOU want to hear or do?

Take care,

[RyanH]

Architect,

I meant no disrespect with my responses to your thread. My intention was to make a point: that you've been given sound advice in this thread but it didn't seem to be what you wanted to hear.

You are obviously having a difficult time with your fish. I know you are a college student. I am also a full time student and understand what it's like to be on a limited budget.

However, the suggestions made by myself and others here don't really involve any sort of financial commitment on your part (save for possibly the cost of metronidazole).

When we take living animals into our care, we have a responsibility to do what we can to keep them healthy. These fish are depending on you for their every need. If they aren't doing well, and this is obvious, something needs to be done about it.

I'm drawing on personal past experience as well as the experiences of hundreds of other people before you that have posted here with problems not unlike yours. Based on this experience I can tell you with confidance that your problem is more than likely environmental, despite what your test kit may have told you. Biological waste aside, a dirty tank harbors bacteria, parasites and other nasties that will overwhelm your fish if given the opportunity... particularly if they are young, stressed, and weakened from the start.

-Ryan

[architect1]

1) What do you want to do with your discus?
I want them to grow up to be adult and just swim around and be beautiful.

2) Why do you want to keep discus?
I want to keep them to 1 subsidis the lonlyness, 2 I love feeding them and watching them do there thing.

3) Do you want to receive sound, sensible helpful advice?
yes of course.

4) Why do you doubt the advice given? Is it because its not what YOU want to hear or do? I didn't dubt it I Just can't Up and move the to big tanks and get a hospital tank. I was just wondering if it was hex can i treet the whole tank.

The one fish that died was perfectly fine. It had nothing on it to say it didn't die naturally.

The other 2 fish that died would not eat the color bits. he was the runt of my bigger blue diamonds witch are perfectly fine.

There where 13 in the batch that i bought. they where all black when I put them in the tank. 8 of them now are all fully active and healthy. The are all eating the color bits. There are 2 -3 ish its dieffernt each day the one black one right now has orange eyes the other to just sit there and swim around.

maybe I should just keep my 55g and give the 2.5" to bigalls because buy everones coments I still don't know what I'm doing. thank you for all your time.

[architect1]

you tell me if they look sick.

[architect1]

more

[architect1]

hears the one that is just sitting around

[architect1]

another sitting around. i don't know why its so dark compaired to the other ones. maybe its the depth of the watter

[architect1]

more I don't know if I put this one up. I'm thinking of taking all the stone out like the one person said. if I did where do I put the plants?

[architect1]

I just put some blood worms in the tank and all the fish where eating it and I couldn't see the black ones. they all gained there colors. Could it be that there not ready for the color bits and some need time to eat the blood worm. Like the white poo I haven't seen come ot of any of the dark ones this past 2 weeks.

[pcsb23]

Architect,

Like Ryan I knew you are a student, reading architecture I believe. Also like Ryan no disrepect is intended.

I absolutley agree with the advice Ryan has given you. Sacrifice the plants, compared to the discus they are nothing.

To achieve your aims you have to get the discus settled, and grwoing strong with as few stressors as possible.

My preference is for planted tanks, I love them, BUT I gow discus out in BB tanks. Reason is I can keep it clean easier and changes as much water as I need to without worrying about anything other than the fish. When they are all large healthy adults then plants etc can be added.

If these were my fish this would be the last change I make to the tank, that is removing all the gravel etc.. Other than for w/c I'd change nothing else for at least 6 months.

I would trust Ryans advice and act upon it.

Take care,

[architect1]

Ok if I get a hospital tank will the healthy ones be fine? Like will i be able to leave the ones in the tank or will the desease transmit to them all? I see what ryan means. what is it that makes them sick? is everything contaminated? If I do clean the big tank what do i do with the plants and fish that arn't discus?

[AmberC]

Hi! I've been following along since we chatted on IM. These guys really do know what they are talking about. They have helped me immensely with my discus. I had a planted tank too and I just threw away all my plants and gravel. I have other fish besides discus in my tank as well and I just kept them there, but got rid of everything but one piece of malaysian driftwood.

Hang in there! Its hard, but you can get them healthy!
Amber

[architect1]

the gravel you threw away to. like in the garbage? is it the whole tank contaminated like the healthy fish can i put in my other tank or is it transmitable?

cause if I can i will put the fish in a pail and take all the stone out then sanities the tank and then have it a bb tank. can i do that?

[AmberC]

the gravel you threw away to. like in the garbage? is it the whole tank contaminated like the healthy fish can i put in my other tank or is it transmitable?

cause if I can i will put the fish in a pail and take all the stone out then sanities the tank and then have it a bb tank. can i do that?

Well I'm no expert, but its my opinion that if they have all been together then there is a good likelyhood that all the fish could be sick.
You can put them in a bucket and do it that way, but I didn't I just emptied the tank about halfway then used a collander and removed all the rocks/plants and threw them away. I had no where to store that many rocks, thats why they were trashed.
But wait until someone more knowledgable comes on to answer this ok. They'll probably have a good suggestion for you as I messed up my biofilter big time the way I did it.
Amber

[marilyn1998]

Architect,

DO NOT remove all the rocks and plants in one sitting. No matter how clean you think you have your tank, the rocks hold alot of debris and bacteria.
I would remove the plants first. Then with each water change I would scoop up some of the rock. Let it take about 4 or so water changes to get it all.

Do you use a siphon to vacuum as you do water changes??? And what type of substrate(s) do you have? Gravel? Flourite?

If you take it all out at once, it will get murky and raise the bacteria which can even sometimes be toxic. IT is alot to ask of your discus.

When I removed my undergravel filter, I put my fish in a bucket with a heater, but they all got sick from stress. THey ended up with a bacterial infection, too.

When I decided a few weeks ago to remove the gravel, I left the discus in the tank and just scooped the gravel in the siphon as I vaccuumed the end where the fish were not huddled. I took about half a coffee can each time I changed water. This way, the fish werent traumatized because it didnt take much longer than a normal WC, the bacteria werent disturbed too much, and the biofilter had time to catch up with having it disrupted.

Check your levels each time you try it and give it a rest if they start to go up.

Your fish and tank will love you. My fish were swimming happily within minutes of my WC and they didnt get sick.

Good Luck!

[RyanH]

is it the whole tank contaminated like the healthy fish can i put in my other tank or is it transmitable?




If your problem is indeed hex, and I suspect it probably is, then you will most likely continue to have issues with your fish.

All fish have the hexamita flagellate living in their gut all the time. When a fish is living in poor water conditions or is under stress, the immune system is eventually weakened to the point where it is no longer capable of keeping the flagellates in check. They will then increase in number and overwhelm your fish, eventually killing it as you have experienced already.

So it's not the type of disease that is passed from fish to fish like a water born bacterial infection. However, if you've had problems with a few of your fish, then it's likely that they won't be the last because all are living in the same environmental conditions. Some fish are just naturally going to be more resistent than others and will take longer to succumb. Others may never get sick but why take the chance when the problem is so easily remedied?

hth :)
-Ryan

[pcsb23]

Architect,

if the gravel is not too coarse you can remove some each time you do a water change with the siphon hose, just carefiully let the hose suck some gravel up as you do the w/c. This way you take the muck out witrhnthe gravel and water.

Carefully and slowly pull the plants out of the gravel and dispose of them., Then remove all other bits of wood and large rocks. then start the gravel removal. It should only take three or four w/c to remove all the gravel. this way your bio filter will keep up with the added load it will have to take on - as your gravel will have some small amount of bio filter capability.

Once all the gravel etc is out, wipe the inside surfaces over completely, I use kitchen paper towels.

[architect1]

solet me see if i get this right i take out all the plants. i slowly take out my gravel out with each w/c.how long do i treat the tank with hex? once its done then what can i put in and when if ever? i will do that. thank you.

so i can't treat the tank with the plants.

so the meds called hex? how long will i treat them and how hot for the water?

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Archetect,
Sorry but your fish does not look happy. Eventually the other fish will end up sick. I would place all the Discus in a bucket, add an airstone and heater, remove everthing in the tank and rinse filter. Increase the heat and treat with metro. You'll see a big difference in the health and color of your fish. JMHO

dan

[keno]

I just read the entire post, but maybe im missing this, what is your water change schedule? I hope your changing water every day in your situation.

You've gotten sound advise here, especially about changing constantly, this will really stress fish.

I guess ill add my same vote as the other 55 votes as to what you should do :)

Take everything out of tank, fresh water in every day, same parameters as your tank water!!!

[architect1]

wel thank you for the help.I'm going to treat the tanklets just hope lfs has the meds for hex. so i'm going to start today. thank you again for the help. I'm sorry if it sounded like i doubted the advice I was only seeing if I could treat the tank with the plants and stones but I could see it as the stones could with hold the bacteria and stuff. it will be alot of stone to move lol its aleast 5 backs of 20pounds of stone.

I'll miss the huge call forest. and the swords well they arn't groing as big. Thank you for the advise. I do hope it is hex.

I also have a question are some of my fish darker then normal because they have hex not huge dark I mean like I realized at night my blu8e diamonds color comes out like they are blue during the day in the middle of there body there a light black and the fins are blue is that from the desase as you can see in the pick the ones that look healthy there not true colors the only ones that are are the Turqs. well I have to get the meds. I will be back. and thank you again.

[architect1]

seachem Aquazole Thats the med they told me to use is this going to teat them? Is it good or not I don't want to use bad med thats not going to treat them.

[pcsb23]

Architect,

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/AquaZole.html

It contains 50% metro. What size did you get?

[architect1]

I got 800L so 200g
i was told it works and use half of it for my tank. Is that right?

[pcsb23]

Architect,

I am sure it will work ok. Its late in the day here in the UK so check my maths!! You have a 110 gal tank, dosing for metro is 400mg (0.4grams) per 10 gallons so that would be 11 * 0.4 = 4.4grams metro. This contains 50% metro so double it to 8.8 grams. To make life easier you need to use 9 or 10 grams of the powder 2 or 3 times a day, dose after w/c and keep the temp at 92 - 94 f. Dose for 3 days but keep the temp up for another week. I think the consensus now is to dose 3Xdaily. So you should use 3X 10 * 3 = 90 grams, about half!

hth,

[April]

not one person as far as i could see has said that it could be just because hes a blue diamond. its the blue diamonds that are turning black off and on right?? alot of blue diamonds have weak digestive systems. they get plugged easy..and when they are not digesting well..they turn black for a time..then fine. their poo is also big. theres been posts on here about the logs bds lay.
the tetrabits are hard for them to digest. id say for the most part your fish look fine to me..maybe a few who are smaller and behind..but bound to happen when you get a big group. some do great..some lag.
try somethin different to feed. id recommend ocean nutrition forumla one flakes. my fish do very well on it. we have a bd right now..big..nice..healthy..but a few times over the past weeks i fed him the green onf. one spirulina one. guess what? he went dark. he wasnt feeling too good. had a sore tummy. no more spirulina onf for him.
id still say go for bb for awhile till they get settled more . just alot easier and less time . just scoop a bit each day out while you do a wc. i just use a fishnet. scoop..a bit while draining.

[April]

thats alot of water to dose. id drain the tank to half. very costly to dose with metro with that size tank for anyone. especially when your a college student.

[architect1]

Ok so half the bottle every 2-3 days right? cause the store said id have to use half. The tank is at 92-94. The store owner and one of the planted tank specialist there said i could keep everything in there is that true?

Also feed do I still feed them like 4 times a day? what about water changes can i still do them with the meds in?

At the end of the day 10 swimm and eat every day there fine and happy. my one blue dimonds color was finally all blue not baby blue but blue. And april its a pastel black on them like you see the blue on them but its a soft black on there body. My blue turqs are the ones that can turn there strips on and off. Most of them look like there strips are fading but I saw one guy turn them on and off like he was on a modiling runway with like paris hilton personally i think my fish is more beautiful then her and Id piffer to date my fish over her.

It looks to me like its the only 2 that are black. i haven't seen white poo for a while. they are moving around a bit more and there colors come back every so offten like when i feed there showing an interest but the novilty wares off. The ones eyes are orange is that wired for a sick one to be orange? all the other discus have orange eyes other then the one black guy.

[pcsb23]

Architect,

The dosing regime with metro is 2 or 3 doses a day for three days. If you choose to do 3 doses a day then in total you will use 9 doses. Each dose will be around 10 grams or 1 20th of the powder.

Trying to simplify:
1 dose of 10grams 3 times a day for 3 days.

Keep doing your w/c's and dose just after one of the w/c. Feed as normal.

From now on its up to you. I'm done here.

Paul.

[architect1]

Thank you For the help I will tell you if anything changes.

[architect1]

Well some good news is there not as black as they where but there still hiding. thealso come to when food falls. i dont see any white poo. just need them to eat.