breeding tips needed

[cobaltblue]

Hi everyone, i have a few questions about beginner breeding.

First, one of my pairs has had 9 spawns, and has eaten every one. Twice i got to wriggler stage, but that was it. How long before i try and do other things like separating male\female or using a mesh over the eggs? This pair is only about 8-10 months old, so they are young.

Seond, is it true that continual breeding will stunt the growth of the discus, and that is why the females are often ( not always) smaller than the males??
I have two very nice shaped discus that paired up, but i want them to keep growing at a steady pace, and not have them stop. They are only about 4-4.5inches now. Will they still continue to grow while spawning every week?

Third, is 86 too warm for the breeding tank? Do males get sterile or have a hard time fertilizing at 86 degrees?

thanks

[Chrisb]

Chris
Good question, hope someone answers.
I'm having the same problem but this is there 4 spawn.

Chris

[RyanH]

Hey Chris,

I'm not the breeding expert here but I do have some experience with the questions that you've posted.

1. 8-10 months is very young. I wouldn't be terribly concerned with their lack of parenting skills at this point. I had a pair that I let spawn 20-30 times before they got it right. Then they turned out to be great parents. One caveat: the opposite can also be true. You may end up having to remove one of the parents (usually the female) to stop the egg or wiggler eating.

2. IME yes, your fish will typically stop growing once they start breeding. This is especially true for the female since she is diverting vital energy and resources away from growth and to breeding behavior and egg production.

They also tend to eat less when they are concentrating on breeding.

Many actually prefer their breeders be smaller in size but will still occasionally separate them to give them a rest. I've had to separate pairs before that I let go too long. They looked like skeletons with fins. I won't be waiting that long anymore. :embarassed:

If you aren't happy with the size of your fish you'll probably want to separate them for a few more months and feed the hell out of them.

3. 86 should be fine.

hth:)
-Ryan

[Greg Richardson]

I would put a mesh over the eggs which would allow your new parents to get to the next step.

[RyanH]

A screen is also a viable tool as Greg stated. But here is something else to think about:

I find myself of the mindset where I struggle with allowing my fish to pass along poor parenting skills. If the parents are going to eat their young, then it is much more likely that their offspring will do the same. When we intervene, we are essentially enabling this behavior and allowing it to be passed on the next generation.

IMO, the number of good quality parents has degenerated in recent years. This is largely due to inbreeding as well as poor genetics that are a result of breeder intervention. I'd rather that my fish either figure it out on their own or they don't produce offspring. Of course, I'm not trying to make a living at this and my views may change if I ever go that route. :)

This is a personal preference and many will tell me that I'm insane but this is a decision that I've made for myself and my fish.

-Ryan

[Alight]

Ryan, I tend to agree with you, although I've had many breeders say that in their experience, artificially raised fry are just as likely to be good parents as fry raised by parents.

I don't know if there is any proof for this matter either way.

Certainly, from the genetic selective breeding theory, it would seem that parent raised fry would be more likely to pass on the genes necessary for parent raising fry.

[Greg Richardson]

Ryan. I understand what u are getting at.
I have thought about the mesh step also thinking well next time they eat but it becomes a game chasing them a bit before lunch so one is just stalling what will happen anyways.

I just wonder if once they are free swimming and they attach if that is when it clicks with the parents that eating them stops this from happening?

The pair I have now had batch.
Next ate a batch, next batch fine.
Go figure.