Algae in a nonplanted tank

[marilyn1998]

I have an evergrowing problem in my tank.
It has been running since 12/3/05. Houeses 6 juvies. gravel bottom, plastic plants, resin deco. It is a 30 gallon seaclear, penguin power filter, biowheel, and 2 flourescent bulbs. (whatever comes with eclipse). I run a bubble wand across the back of the tank.
I do a 40% WC daily, adding only Amquel. Lights are on about 7 hours.
My specs are: ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 0-10ppm
ph 7.0
temp 88
I cant seem to keep the brown algae from growing all over the tank. I wipe it down daily with the water change. I change the filter cartridge monthly. I have cleaned the units monthly.
I had two breistlenose cats that died within 3 days. I had a small pleco that died the first week. None of them seemed to do a thing other than lay between the heater and the glass.
I tried the Jungle liquid Algae No More but my discus didnt seem to like it, they hid the entire next day until I did a wc.
Do I have to live with this?

[cobaltblue]

Hi marilyn,

not sure about the algae growth, but the plecos really need some driftwood in the tank, not only too make them feel safe, but to rasp on. Its an important part of their diet. Bristlenose definately help with algae. Oto cats are also good. If you dont have any real plants, i would suggest leavng your lights off as much as possible. The fish dont need the lights, they are only for peoples enjoyment.

[Dood Lee]

For a 30 gallon tank, I would avoid the use of plecos. They can get to be pretty big. Go with Otocinclus catfish (Otos), they stay small and do a good job cleaning up algae. Also, make sure that no sunlight is reaching your tank. If the only lightsource are your bulbs, then leaving them on for 5-6 hours a day shouldn't cause that much of an algae problem.

[lhforbes12]

Marilyn,
Your "algae" actually sounds more like cyanobacteria to me. Brown comes off easily? This is caused more from some sort of imbalance than too much light. Are you doing small wc's after each feeding, to remove what wasn't eaten? I've also noticed BA eems to like large wcs, which is unfortunate for us discus keepers. Probably the easiest way to rid yourself of it is to continue what you are doing but add a little more filtration to that tank. For some reason I never get it in a tank that has very high filtration, I think because the bacteria in highly filtered tanks uses up NH3/NH4 too fast for the "algae" to use. Also it may just stop on it's own, it always does in my tanks once they've been running awhile.

hth,
Larry

[marilyn1998]

Thanks Larry. Since I first wrote this I have upgraded to a 90 gallon. I run an Aqua Clear 110 and a Penguin 350B. I only have 56 watts of light and it runs about 5 hours tops. Still have the brown algae growing. Tank has been up about 8 weeks.

I do a 30% WC every day. Will let you know what happens!

[Carol_Roberts]

Brown sounds like diatoms. I usually think nearly black for blue/green cyano bacteria. Maybe too much disolved nutrients (food) in tank. Increased water changes may help. continue to wipe down walls . . . . I wonder what is hiding/disolving under the gravel . . . .

[Timbo]

i'm with carol on this...i'd say diatoms. usually caused by excess organics in the tank or in the change water. having gravel can exacerbate this prob

[marilyn1998]

I have a gravel bottom that is sparse enough to see through and I siphon every day. That being said, I DO have a large amount of waste every day being extracted. I have 4 adult discus, 4 4" and 5 2.5-3" in this tank that I feed colorbits, flake, and then 2 feedings of either FBW or FMS. I also have 3 rams, 3 cories, 3 small pleco in that tank. (see my signature).

My readings are 0 in everything, but I am heavily stocked and feed prolly a bit heavy. This adds to the muck. I am doing 40% WC every afternoon.
THere is never more than 2 feedings in the tank at a time.

I also have 2 skylights in this room that add light in the afternoon.

I am going to try to feed less. I would dump the gravel but it is the biggest thing my husband likes about the tank. I also have 2 pieces of driftwood and a rocky cave for the rams.

How do I control the diatoms?? Short of getting rid of the gravel. I am keeping the levels well, just the brown algae that is getting me down.

[Tony_S]

Diatoms can be a real pain in the *** sometimes...they can appear for no apparent reason...and, just the same, dissapear for no apparent reason.(but there always is a reason)

It may have something to do with increased silica levels in your tapwater at certain times of the year...or it might just be that the flourescent tube(s) in your hood are getting old and starting to dim(they can dim considerably with age)....or both.
Diatoms need silicates to build thier exoskeleton, and unlike algae(they arent algae) they prefere dimly lit tanks.

With that said...if it were me, the first thing I would consider is replacing the tubes if they are getting old, or adding a tube. You can try keeping them on for a couple of hours longer everyday but that doesnt usually work as well.... that may solve the problem all on its own.
If that doesnt help, or solve the problem on its own, you can also filter the storage water with RO/DI to remove silicates. You can buy silicate removing resins for your filter...but Im not familliar with them so I can recommend a brand name, or say how effective they are.

Tony

[pcsb23]

Marilyn,

It could also be new tank syndrome, I've noticed a few times, once everthing is up to speed the brown goes away. Like Tony says the first thing I would do is swap out the tubes if they are more than 5 or 6 months old. Standard florry tubes are done by then. Other things to consider would be a diatom filter or run a UV on it. It would be worth testing for phosphates too, these tend to run hand in hand with high silicate levels. As its not planted then any positive reading over 0.25ppm would be cause for concern. To reduce it (PO4) and the silicate level try rowaphos, it is the best I've ever used, a tadge expensive but it won't leach back into the tank and it really works! Loads of the reef guys in the UK now use it.

[marilyn1998]

Thanks Carol, Timbo, Tony and Paul.

I have found that the brown stuff is actually slowing down. I started running the light longer, and changing the decor out weekly. I alternate driftwoods and rocks.

I am going to get a phosphate kit and start looking into that whole thing. I will keep you posted.

Thanks again!

[Alight]

The answers you got are good ones. It is brown algae (diatoms) you are dealing with. It will likely go away on its own. It may be replace by the dreaded cyanobacteria, bluegreen algae, though. Hope it isn't for you.

I've not found that brown algae has much to do with your water quality. Phosphates definitely don't have to be present, and nitrates can be quite low and it will still be around. The silica hypothesis also doesn't seem to "hold water" (LOL) either because the stuff seems to thrive even with very frequent, large water changes, which should dilute the heck out of any silica that could possibly be present.

These little beasts just seem to have their time to reek havoc.

Sheesh, didn't mean to carry on. I really meant to post about how to keep BN plecos or otos alive, when you get some more. For some reason, these guys do not like going from harder water to the very soft water of a discus tank suddenly. If the place you get them from has high TDS, you must acclimate them very slowly to the softer water. Do it in a quarantine tank over a couple of days.

The other thing that really seems to help is to feed them zuchinni for the first few days after you get them. I don't know if this is because they are very hungry and eat things they shouldn't right away, or because they just need something to eat right away. But, for whatever reason, this seems to really help their survival, and gets them past the first few weeks, which seems to be the most critical period. Works for both BNs and otos, either of which, if you can get them acclimated, will take care of your brown algae in less than a week. They really love the stuff. They'll also take care of the other species of algae that you'll get later on, except for the bluegreen algae, which nothing touches.

[marilyn1998]

Thanks Al. Its a comfort to know it isnt ALL me. I never fail to do a daily WC, sometimes I do 2 if the buggers dont eat their sinking food. :D :D

I need some more BN. How many is good for a 90 gallon?

[Tony_S]

The silica hypothesis also doesn't seem to "hold water" (LOL) either because the stuff seems to thrive even with very frequent, large water changes, which should dilute the heck out of any silica that could possibly be present.


Hypothesis?? Diatoms dont use silica to build thier exoskeleton?? What is it they use then??

There's a large hole in your waterchange theory...Silicates can and do build up in a tank, through tap water that is high in silicic acid, you can actually make the situation worse everytime you do a waterchange! Diatoms use the silicates between waterchanges....you do a waterchange and replenish the silicates.Your fueling the fire.

If Ive got any of this wrong...please enlighten me...

Tony

[Timbo]

no enlightenment required tony, i believe you are correct.


"or in the change water"

[Alight]

Tony, you are correct in what you've said. I didn't make it clear what hypothesis I was responding to.

I was refering to the silica from a new tank scenario, that has been put forward to explain why new tanks have this problem more than old tanks.

The idea is that new tanks shed more silica from the glass than tanks that have been "cured" longer, so that more silica is present in a new tank so diatoms bloom in the new tank.

I agree with you that a much more likely source of silica is the water you use for changing, which would then mean that the more water changes you would do, the worse the diatom situation, and that it would continue in your tank forever. This would run counter to the opinion that water quality increases diatoms, since more water changes should mean better water quality.

However, the water source idea doesn't explain why diatoms are a new tank phenomenon for most people.

Another source of silica in tanks that I discovered years ago, is in some rocks that lfs sell to decorate your tank. I bought a nice white, opaque rock that seemed ok by the acid test, but dissolved in my tank over time. It turned out to be some variety of silica, and you can guess what that did for the brown algae. Interestingly, there was also a big bloom of green water algae from this, too.

[Discusfishies]

Hi everyone I have the same problem with the brown algae. My tank has been running since July last year it is a 55gal 2nd hand all in one tank. I run the top filter in the tank as well as a canister.

When I first got my Discus I had a serious problem with my water quality and my fish suffered serverly so I then changed to R/O water. The R/O water fixed my unhappy Discus and all was fine untill I started getting this Brown algae problem, it covered my driftwood, plant and glass and reappeared just as quick as it was removed. So at this time which is only a couple of weeks ago I started noticing that some of my Discus were starting to get fin rot.

So I started to do lots and lots of reading to work out problem. So a few days ago I worked out that maybe it may be a Phosphate problem, got my water tested and Yes it was a huge Phosphate problem. But this problem wasnt comming from my tank it was comming from my R/O water, it was the Phosphate based PH adjuster which was causing the problem. So I just got hold of a Seachem product that lowers PH without using phosphates. I did the first water change today using new water and will do another one tomorrow to hopefully get rid of these extreemly high levels.

What I also had in common is that I had some Peppermint BN Catfish that died in my tank, I put all the right food in but they just didn't seam to eat or survive long.

Just out of interest does anyone have any information on what effects extreemly high Phosphates have on fish. Ok, they cause algae but surely any abnormal high level of anything would be classed as poor water quality and must cause stress to fish especially Discus and obviously the poor little catfish.