Possible Emergency..Help!

[DiscusBob]

I had to break down my 125 gallon planted tank last week and move my 10 Discus to a 55 gallon in the kitchen (we had painters here for 4 days...the big tank was covered with a tarp). I moved 55 gallons of the old water into the 55 and everybody was fine...I also moved one eHeim 2217 and and Aquaclear 500 (all sponge) with them. I cleaned and rinsed my other 2217. Tonight, I moved all the plants and fish back into the 125.... mostly new water from the tap (which is how I usually do water changes)..I added the water 2 days ago to let the gasses burn off...I also had the new 2217 and Aquaclear 500 (with aged sponges) going...I also thoroughly vacuumed all the gravel. Naturally, I removed all chlorine and chloramines from the tap water.

I took these readings:

Nitrate: 20 ppm
Nitrite: 3.0 ppm
Hardness: 300 ppm
ph: 7.2
alkalinity: 120 ppm
temp: 84

My tank has been so balanced for years, I rarely take readings anymore, but I know that the water is rock hard and aside from peat and ROs, I don't know how to lower it.

The obvious problem is that all the fish are at the surface gulping air, and I'm not sure what it means, but they haven't shown signs of going belly up just yet...they've been in there for 8 hours..poking their lips above the water line gulping air.

Obviously, I had a nice balance going before..more luck than anything else (although I was having/might still have a thick green algae problem), and by starting from scratch, I upset the balance. I was hoping that by using the 2 Aquaclear 500s with the cycled sponges and and a cycled eHeim 2217, I would avoid these problems.

Any advice would be much appreciated

[Dood Lee]

I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but you should know by now that nitrites should always read zero. Always. That's basic fishkeeping 101. Your fish are gasping for air because of the nitrite poisoning. Get air stones in there to help them out until your tank gets fully cycled again.

[DiscusBob]

Yes, it should be zero, but apparently I have nitrite in my tap water as all the water is new...interesting....I'll check my tap water and let you know...I'll also add some more Amquel plus

[marilyn1998]

Amquel Plus can only be added ONCE in a 24 hour period. Prime can be added in multiple doses. If you have any, I would use the Prime. Good Luck!

[Doug A]

Adding salt to the water can help to prevent nitrite poisoning, but this would not be good for the plants. Put the fish back in the 55 until the bigger tank is fully cycled.

[DiscusBob]

I think I may have added too much Amquel +....the reduced oxygen levels would explain why they're gulping for air.

I put 1 discus in yesterday as a test subject and he's still doing OK after 36 hours...really, the only one not on the surface....strange.

[DiscusBob]

OK....I moved all the fish back to the 55...nobody's gulping air. One of them is laying on his side at the bottom, though.

Now I have no idea what to do. I'm guessing I should drain the 125 gallon tank and fill it with tap water...or would that start the cycle again and I would have a spike in nitrite again? No idea...

I don't see why the "tank" would have to cycle if 75% of the media (1 eHeim 2217 and 2 Aquaclear 500s w/ sponges) are completely cycled. Am I wrong or is it the filtration that actually needs to get cycled: establishment of a bacterial colony, and not the tank water itself ?

I tested the tap water for nitrite and got a zero reading....so where did it some from? Can't be from the cycling process as the filtration has been 'broken in' for a couple of years now.

What am I missing?

[CAGE-RATTLER]

If your fish are ok in the 55 right now i would leave them there till you get the other tank ready again.

The GOOD bacteria is in the sponges and not in the water itself ............ so i would go ahead and change that water and let it aerate for 24 hours and try the discus in there again.

[Dood Lee]

The GOOD bacteria is in the sponges and not in the water itself ............ so i would go ahead and change that water and let it aerate for 24 hours and try the discus in there again.

Actually, beneficial bacteria are in the water, but not in the same concentrations that they are in the bio media.

Back to the topic at hand, ammonia gets excreted by fish, and bacteria breaks it down to nitrite, which further gets broken down into nitrate. I'm having trouble understanding why your 125 is having nitrite readings. How fully "planted" is your 125? A fully planted tank should not have nitrite readings at all regardless of whether or not the tank is cycled. Post some tank specs and maybe I can help figure out the root of the problem. Do not drain your 125. Also, try to get your hands on some Prime. It detoxifies ammonia and nitrite. It's handy for when situations such as these arise.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

He just filled the tank with fresh water so i doubt there is very much bacteria in the water at this point to worry about anyway.

If he has the tank loaded with to much amquel+ i would definately change the water in there and let it aerate for 24 hours and check the parameters.
Or at least do a big enough wc to get rid of the extra amquel......or i guess it would dissapate over time but since your not sure how much is in there .......... i would start with fresh water.


If the water parameters are ok in the 55 ........ leave the discus in there till the 125 also has the proper parameters.

It might just take a little time for the bio to catch back up.

You could also use some water from the 55 to put in the 125 and then finish filling it with dechlorinated water. Then move the cycled filters over and keep a close eye on your ammonia, nitrite & nitrate readings and do daily WC's if needed till the bio catches up.

Even if your tap water has some nitrites ........... a cycled filter will convert them to nitrates.

Check some of the threads on here for fishless cycling if needed.

[Dood Lee]

Even if your tap water has some nitrites ........... a cycled filter will convert them to nitrates.

Check some of the threads on here for fishless cycling if needed.

This is what bothers me the most. He is using cycled filters, and his tank is planted (although the number of plants is still up in the air). There shouldn't be any nitrite readings at all. Bob, is there anything else about your 125 that maybe could be contributing to the nitrite readings?

[DiscusBob]

I have about 15-20 plants in the 125, mostly swords between 12-16". I had to completely drain the tank in order to be able to move it for the painters...but I transferred 55 gallons of the "old" water into the holding tank along with a cycled Aquaclear 500 and cycled eHeim 2217. The sponges from the other Aquaclear 500 I rinsed in the old water and simply placed them in the holding tank to keep the bacteria alive...to run everything in the 55 gallon tank would have been too turbulent.

I DID completely clean one of the eHeim 2217s....I rinsed all the stones, replaced the fine and coarse filters and scrubbed the canister, then I rinsed everything in nice hot soapy water.

So where did I go wrong?

OK...I was kidding about the soap...just messing with you. :)

The point is, I know THAT canister would be starting from scratch....but 75% of my filtration is very, very cycled (am I correct in assuming that placing the sponges in the holding tank kept the bacteria in them alive?).

When I refilled the 125, I did this: I filled it with 50% tap water...then I manually vacuumed it all out to clean the substrate. Then, 50% tap water..treated with Amquel (regular), then 25% "old" water, then I installed the new uncycled eHeim and ran the Aquaclear without sponges for 2 days....the temp was always 84 degrees. The next day I did a little Aquascaping and planted the swords...after the "dust" settled and it looked clean again. I added 1 small discus...he hid behind some plants, but was fine....for 24 hours he swam behind the plants but never showed any signs of nitrite poisoning....oh, when I put him in, I also added one cyled sponge to the Aquaclear. I should also add that I never saw any signs of bacterial bloom one sees in uncycled aquariums.

The next day I added 9 adult discus...at the same time, I added the cycled eHeim and 2 Aquaclear 500s (all sponges).

Almost immediately, they started sucking air from the surface...everyone except the little discus I put in the day before (????). By the time I ran to Wal-Mart to purchase a nitrite tester kit (I couldn't find my all my test kits...I moved everything to the garage for the painters) and got a reading of 3.0 ppm, they had been in there for 8 hours....only one seemed like he was failing, so I moved everyone back the 55 which now was only 20 % full of old water, so added some tap and Amquel and moved an Aquaclear back with them.

The one discus that wasn't doing so well died 18 hours later (why so long?) and all the others seem fine.

Which is where I stand now.

I'm wondering If I shouldn't drain maybe 75% of the 125 and start again?

[Dood Lee]

I don't see any need to "start" again as you put it. You have a pretty good number of plants in there, and your cycled filters should balance out the tank. Just keep doing nitrite and ammonia tests. When they are both zero, then you know that the tank is cycled.

[Ardan]

then I installed the new uncycled eHeim and ran the Aquaclear without sponges for 2 days....
If you run filters without waste or ammonia in the water all the bacteria in the filter die. this makes it unable to process waste and also all the dead bacteria add to the problem. You will not get a bacteria bloom until there is more bacteria available.
just a possibility


hth
Ardan