I'm lost..... Cannot get rid of parasite. HELP

[thang45]

I post about gill flukes many months ago. I just came back from a four weeks vacation and I’m still fighting gill flukes.

I’m treating them with pure prazi for the second time. After one week of prazi I saw 5 discus are still breathing fast and only one gill is opened, and some of my clown loaches and corys are scratching their gills against the bottom of the tank. I thought the discus has bacteria infection but after sawing my loaches and corys scratching like that I think it is gill flukes.

Tank Setup:

38 Gal Tank
2 sponges
5 discus
6 corys
6 loaches
5 rummy nose tetra

Meds tried so far:

Life barrier
Fluke tabs
Formalin
Prazi

To be honest with you all I had the worst luck of keeping discus. I can never get rid of flukes. I gave away three discus last week because I thought that I cannot cure them. I am losing faith of curing or keeping them. Can anyone please help.

[pcsb23]

First observations here are your tank is quite heavily populated. In my view over populated. This tank BB?

What dosage and dosing regime are you using with the prazi? In the past when I've used prazi it has never failed to clear gill flukes.

[thang45]

All of them were in 90gal tank, but I moved them to 38 gal for treatment. Yes it is BB. For 38gal I add 1.5 cc of prazi, it is more than what is needed. If I do WC I will add back what was taken out. Do you think the 2 sponges did not do the job of circulate the med?


One and half month ago I tried pure prazi for three weeks and it did not do the job. I also post a video of the corys scratching on it sides.

By the way the loaches and corys are about 1.5 inches long.

[thang45]

I'm thinking of trying formalin. Does anyone know if loaches and rummy nose can handle formalin?

[Jeckel]

Gill flukes often come back after treatment because the eggs are immune to most medications. But I would think you would see at least temporary improvement after one or all of the treatments you've used. Did you? If the answer is no, I would question whether the problem is flukes. If the answer is yes, I'd say the fish are getting reinfected when the next generation hatches from eggs in the tank.

Some people say potassium permaganate is good against gill flukes. It works by oxidizing organic material, so it pretty much burns the parasites up. I don't think flukes have resistance to PP, but I have no personal experience with it. It has to be used with care.

Jerry

[thang45]

PP works the first time but the second time of using PP for one week now I did not see any improvement.

[billeagan]

Even if you are succesful in the hospital tank your main tank is infested.

My recommendation:
Do a big WC in the tanks
hit with PP minimum 4 hour treatment where the water stays purple.
Big WC
Prazi
7days later big wc hit with prazi for another week.

Bill

[thang45]

I'm sorry I misunderstood. I don’t have PP (potassium permanganate).

I just did 65% WC and using Prazi. The corys and loaches are still scratching the bottom of the tank. If the fish don’t get better within 2 weeks of prazi then I will try to get PP.

[AmazonRainbows]

PAul,

If it's fluke, how long should it take before you start to see improvement when you threat with prazi?

[pcsb23]

I see improvement normally quite quickly. I have done what Bill suggest too in the past.

This is how I did my last treatment with przi (which is damned expensive in the UK too!)

Big w/c 75% or so, temp at 86f. Dosed with prazi at 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons (in my case 1 teaspoon!!). Then on every second or third day do a 50% water change and retreat with enough to replace that taken out. Prazi does not kill the eggs, so you have to dose the tank long enough to deal with the unhatched eggs. I did this for 3 weeks.

hth,

[CliffsDiscus]

Thang45,
How do you know thats its the flukes???

Cliff

[thang45]

Thang45,
How do you know thats its the flukes???

Cliff

I noticed the discus are breathing funny, one gill close and breathing really fast. I tried prazi for three weeks and the symptoms were gone, but came back within a week and a half.

I bought 6 clown loaches and have them in a QT tank for about 2 months. During that time I did not see the loaches try to scratch their gills using the bottom of the tank. Scratching start after the loaches was introduced to the discus tank.

I have a video of the corys trying to scratch themselves. The loaches do the same thing.

Click here to view video (http://www.hiroc.com/MOV01719.MPG)

If you are using windows media, increase the brightness.

Paul:

I did not use 1 teaspoon for 20 Gallons. I use 2ml for 30 Gallons. 1 teaspoon = 5ml. I did WC every 2 or 3 day.
Do you think 2ml for 30 gallons is too little? I think someone recommended me using this.

[pcsb23]

Mine was 1 teaspoon of powder in my 100 gallon tank (but I was running it with low water so around 80 gals). I suspect the eggs were in the substrate or filter and didn't hatch in time - if it is flukes!

[thang45]

Paul:

I just came home from work and saw the corys and loaches do the same thing. The discus seems to ease up on the breathing.

Should the prazi med stop the corys and loaches from scratching the tank glass after almost 2 weeks?

[Ardan]

If the prazi does not work, and the water is stable and no nitrite/ammonia, then I would suspect a different parasite and would try copper safe as here

http://www.simplycichlids.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351

hth
Ardan

[Green Country Discus]

thang45, when was the last time you cleaned your sponge filters? Sounds like you have tried all the meds so I am guessing a bit. Dirty sponges will leach nasties back into the tank after WCs. Its a balance thing. Try rinsing out your sponges and doing some nice WCs for the next couple of days and see how they feel. By the way, your Discus in the video were doing a spawning dance. Keep smiling. HTH

[thang45]

Hi Ardan,

I did not try copper safe, but someone told me that use a copper pipe and it would do the same. I got a solid 3 foot copper pipe in the tank for 6 days but see no improvement. I think I should try it longer.

This morning the discus are breathing slowly, and the loaches and corys are not scratching as much. IMO, I will feel safe if the corys and loaches stop scratching.



thang45, when was the last time you cleaned your sponge filters? Sounds like you have tried all the meds so I am guessing a bit. Dirty sponges will leach nasties back into the tank after WCs. Its a balance thing. Try rinsing out your sponges and doing some nice WCs for the next couple of days and see how they feel. By the way, your Discus in the video were doing a spawning dance. Keep smiling. HTH

Hi Andrew,

Before I moved them to this tank I beach the tank and microwave both sponges for 3 minutes. I added beneficial bacteria everyday. Every second or third day I would wipe the tank glass and do 50%to 65% WC and clean the sponges. I also checked my Ammonia and nitrite and both are 0.

This video is an old video clip I took before I went on my vacation. Yes, you are right the discus did spawn.

I did give some discus away to the LFS because I think they will do a better job of keeping discus. Right now I'm thinking of giving away another five so I could start fresh.

[Ardan]

I don't know about the copper pipe. You would have to test the copper concentration with a test kit. Also I don't think the copper would be in the same form (ionic vs. chelated)
It takes time for copper to work.


However, with all the meds you have tried, maybe its still something in the water.??? As it keeps recurring.

hth
Ardan

[thang45]

Right now the discus are very calm. They are not breathing as fast and one gill close is also gone. But the loaches still show some sign of flukes. I will continue to use prazi for another 3 weeks and hopefully that the flukes will be go away.

[thang45]

Update.

OK. It has been almost 5 weeks of using pure prazi and all 5 discus are back to normal and no more rapid breathing or one gill close. But, once in a blue moon one of the cory still scratches the bottom glass. Does this mean that the flukes are still there or this is nothing I should be worry about?

This is my second prazi treatment. The first time I did it for three weeks and the flukes came back after two weeks. This time I’m not taking any chances. Do you guys think I’m dealing with something else in the tank or this is normal?