Which light should I get?

[tpl*co]

Well, now I'm looking for a new PC fixture to go with my new tank :). I see a couple of used power compact lights available - 1 has 4x96 watts and the other has 4x65 watts and 48" unit. My tank will be 27" deep and 130 gallon and I am going to have medium light plants in a low tech set-up. (the tank they're in now is around 3.5-4 watts per gallon). I do have a aqualight unit now that has 2x65 watt that I could use to suppliment if I get the 4 x 65 watt unit?

I guess my question is what unit should I get? Should I get the 65 watt unit and keep my old unit to suppliment it to the wattage I need (a plus is the 65 watt bulbs are more available and cheaper than the 96 watt bulbs). Or get the higher wattage unit and get rid of my other unit? (I see the bulbs go for $45 each though on bigals though, ouch! compared to about $25-27 for 65 watt).

Both units have moonlights, which I think would look nice, and I think would be good for a penninsula aquarium to keep kids from running into it in the middle of the night! (has anybody used moonlights with their discus)

The tank is 20" across so I think I can get 2 units in it (the seller was recommending 2 units when I was asking him)

What do you think?

Tina

[lhforbes12]

Tina,
Are you still getting the fixture from Aquatraders? I ask because they also have very cheap bulbs. I'm not sure if you have read it yet, but I answered this very question on the other thread this morning. Basically, I would just keep what you already have.

Larry

[tpl*co]

The trouble is my other light that I have on my bow is a 36" light so there is 2 feet difference on that fixture. The 4 ft fixture I have is on my 60 :). I have access to a couple of used fixtures I'm debating on (the 4x96 is one of them) It sounds like it may win out since it is wider than the other units I'm considering and would have to go in on it's own. I'd have to change out the acitinic bulbs though since it is a salt water fixture.

Tina

[lhforbes12]

Tina,
I would have to agree with you about having a fixture the correct size. If at all possible I would get the 5' one. Only because that way it will sit on your aquarium's rim, not on the glass. (Since you have a canopy you may or may not be able to use the fixture's legs, I can't use the legs on the 125 because it would be too big (long) then).

Larry

[tpl*co]

When I talked to the seller of the tank, we were looking at the 5' fixture but he was talking about cutting it down to 57". (the front is bullnosed or a U shape). Also this tank has a tall canopy.

I was thinking the same thing with my aqualights legs. the other fixture I'm considering has flat legs though.

Tina

[mickeyG]

Don't take this as the gospel::

I think you are right with the 3 wpg (or more if you can deal with it) is good for plants. I believe that 27" deep is a lot of "deep" to adequtely reach the bottom with cf's.

I see you are on a budget. If you were not (or if you could get great deals?), then you might consider 2 150w or 175w mh with the color temp you prefer. They would light the bottom, would make your plants and fish look spetacular, and even though the recommendation for 2 150's is 48" long, you could easily fudge the extra 12".

If your feeling is that "I DON"T WANT MH so shut up" then please excuse this reply!!!

Michael

[tpl*co]

Michael,

No don't shut up :). I've never considered MH before since I've haven't had a tank this size before. I've always read though that MH is less efficient? Also, can it be put in a canopy situation? I've also read somewhere the bulbs are more expensive? I'm hoping out of all this I may save a little on electricity between tearing my two tanks and getting one, but now I'm not so sure ;). The way I'm justifying the new light purchases is what I'll probably get if I sell my other units and then applying that to a new one ;) (for what my units are going for on ebay :))

Tina

[pcsb23]

Tina,

I didn't dare suggest MH's (again :)) The short answer is no, they cannot go in the canopy, they should be at least 12" above the waters surface. Yes the bulbs are more expensive, but they do last a long time. With the right pendant and reflector they penetrate deep tanks well, that's why the reef guys use them, they need way more light than even high tech planted nuts do! Deep tanks are a challenge for flourescents, but a good reflector on a T5 or simialr (PC's or compact Flourries are based on T5 tech mainly) work quite well. I've used T5's on a 24" tank no probs. (and thats the depth of water!).

hth,

[mickeyG]

Lets see?

First.....I don't know about effieincy comparisons but I think it will cost you double or even more to power 300wmh instead of 300wcf. A new bulb on-line is about $60 - $100 depending on what you want, but for plants you can get away with the cheaper bulbs. Maybe you would need to spend more for a reef. I know next to nothing about used or discounts or ebay pricing.

Second ...... they get way hot which could potentially heat up your tank. Africans don't mind 80 or even higher. You would have to check individual species for specific heat recommendations. The problem is usually for the reefers because the lights could add 5 or more degrees - especially in the summer and reefs need to stay within a small margin in the upper 70's to the low 80's. However the usual solution (if required) is to have good ventilation in the canopy. I don't know your cabinet design so I can't advise very well here.

Third ....... I goofed up here. Africans generally will eat most plants.. They won't eat java moss, or java fern (both low light plants around 2wpg) but the plants they don't or won't eat, they will dig and/or rip to shreds. Generally speaking that is.......you still might try it.... don't be discouraged... if it is what you really want, just figure out a way to make it happen, experiment, and you will get it.

Sorry about the lapse.

Michael

[lhforbes12]

I agree with Paul, but I'll go a step further CF's *are* T5's, they are merely folded T5's... and far more expensive.

Michael,
300 watts is 300 watts, a 300 watt MH uses no more or no less than a 300 watt CF.

Larry

[mickeyG]

Larry,

I'm sure you are right. Duh .... I guess its the associated other related costs that make the mh cost more..... fans for heat, more expensive light bulbs, etc. Good call.......

Sorry Tina

Michael

[tpl*co]

LOL, and with Discus, isn't that what we want to do, to heat up the water? LOL, sometimes I think I can jump in and take a bath with those fish! *JK*

Tina

[BIGFOOT]

Here are some 96 watt bulbs that are lot cheaper than 45 dallors.

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_lighting_powercompact_compact-fluorescent_bulbs.asp?CartId=

[tpl*co]

What's difference with the 6700K and the 10,000 K bulbs (besides the extra K? LOL). I know that the 10,000's are used on reef tanks but can they also be used on planted tanks or will I have to change out all 4 bulbs? 2 acitinic and 2 10,000K


Ohhhh, I think I've answered my own question:

http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_lighting_powercompact_compact-fluorescent_bulbs_information.asp

so 10,000 isn't good for plants since it isn't as bright?

Tina

[lhforbes12]

Tina,
"K" refers to Kelvin. Kelvin is a temperature measurement that follows Centigrade closely, but 0 degrees Kelvin is absolute zero degrees. When used for lights it refers to the color a radiating black body would be at that temperature. Think of it this way, you heat a piece of metal and as it heats up it changes colors getting first red, then yellow, then white. This color is what is being reffered to, it has nothing to do with the actual heat. Hopefully that made at least a little sense to you, if not PM me and I'll repost. I once had a wonderful link that explained in very easy to understand terms, but I can no longer find it. "K" is not nearly as important as most people would have you think. I use 6700K bulbs but 5000K-10000K and even those outside this range are actually fine.

Larry

[tpl*co]

Thanks Larry,

So the higher Kelvin the hotter and whiter the light? Is that why I see the 6700 is a yellow white and advertizements for the 10000 K is a "crisper" white?

Also, to continue on another post the 2 WPG planted low tech rule doesn't apply to big deep tanks? I'll be getting a fixture that will be bringing me to about 3wpg. Should I see if I need to put my other fixture on there too for 4 wpg? (I haven't gotten the tank here yet, I sure hope these guys will fit! I've talked to the seller of the tank though and he said they will though :)).

Tina

[lhforbes12]

Tina,
Yes I know the post you are talking about and I strongly disagree with you btw. I think if you want a low tech tank adding a lot of light is just asking for algae problems. Do not worry about the depth of your tank. I have seen proof that the glass of your aquarium actually acts like a "light tunnel". Think about it for a minute, you have almost 300 watts on your tank now, does it make the room bright? Of course it doesn't because most of the light is staying inside the tank. Most consider 30" to be the point where you may be better off using MH's. For the "light tunnel" to work properly the glass must be kept scrupulously clean, and the more the plants near the surface will obviously block some light. So I wouldn't worry about that over much (while I don't know you well I know you well enough to know that you keep your tanks spotless) since you do know what you are doing. I am NOT saying that the fixture you want isn't a good one for you, I think it is. As to the light temperature, my real point is this "get the color that looks the best to YOU, the plants will grow regardless.

Larry

[diablocanine]

If you have a canopy, think about retrofits. AH Supply, IMO, have the best kits and reflectors. Here is a link http://www.ahsupply.com/ .They also sell high quality bulbs at a reasonable price. Call them and talk to Kim, he is a nice guy and will fill you full of very useful information. You can buy what you need now and upgrade later if you like. 6700 - 10000 kelvin bulbs will be fine. I use VHOs or PCs over my tanks averaging 4wpg. I do not experience any problems with depth, my deepest tank is 30" and 10000K VHOs are working just fine. IMO, MHs are a waste of money unless you have a very high tech planted tank with the canopy height and provisions for cooling. MH bulb choics for a planted tank are limited so it is difficult to find a bargain. These are the type of moonlights I have on 4 tanks http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CU-USA01652&Category_Code=moonlight . I love them, they are great for night viewing. I use 1 per 12" of tank width.....DC

[tpl*co]

Thanks Larry and DC...

I agree on the algae with higher light,

I found it was a trial and error between the number of fish, the amount of light, and the number and type of plants to take up the nutriants to the point of no algae in the water! (of course above the water line I still get algae since my water plants can't get to those nutriants! :(). This tank doesn't have any bristlenoses either :). I just found the right balance recently. *sigh* I'm going to have to go through that again with the new tank! My 60 that has 2 watts per gallon still has problems, gets algae and my plants aren't doing well :(. My husband had me put it in such a rotten spot that my hands are tied what I can do with that tank. OH well, new project tank in the works and I will sell that tank! I'm so excited since the new tank will be a nice centerpiece of the room (though I'm not looking forward to the trial and error period (how much light, what kind of plants and how many plants to = no or little algae). LOL!

Tina

[lhforbes12]

Tina,
The best advice I ever got about dealing with algae came from Tom Barr (who btw lives in Davis so he's close to you) and that is to run either a diatom or UV filter for a whole day following a wc. Since I started doing this it no longer matters where the tank is (I used to have exactly the same problem as you do) I simply do not get algae. I have a little still on some anubias but it was already there before I started doing this and it is declining from their leaves. It truly works like magic for me.
btw like DC I have an AHS fixture, when compared side by side with an Odyssea I see no difference at all. Plants grow as well, have the same color and generally look exactly same. I have heard a lot of people, including Tom Barr, put down the Odysea's, but in EVERY case they don't actually own one.
Plus the Odyssea's are truly "plug n play, no DIY involved, and the Odyssea's are far less expensive.

Larry

[BobB]

Tina,
The best advice I ever got about dealing with algae came from Tom Barr (who btw lives in Davis so he's close to you) and that is to run either a diatom or UV filter for a whole day following a wc. Since I started doing this it no longer matters where the tank is (I used to have exactly the same problem as you do) I simply do not get algae. I have a little still on some anubias but it was already there before I started doing this and it is declining from their leaves. It truly works like magic for me.
btw like DC I have an AHS fixture, when compared side by side with an Odyssea I see no difference at all. Plants grow as well, have the same color and generally look exactly same. I have heard a lot of people, including Tom Barr, put down the Odysea's, but in EVERY case they don't actually own one.
Plus the Odyssea's are truly "plug n play, no DIY involved, and the Odyssea's are far less expensive.

Larry
Would you say the Odyssea's have the quality as the other name brands.

[lhforbes12]

Bob,
I only have AHS and Odyssea's, so I really can't say. What I can say is that, especially for their price, Odyssea's are very good quality. Not as high in some areas though, for instance they don't have water-proof end caps... hell they don't HAVE endcaps, you just plug the lamp into a plastic strip with 4 holes. They do have diffusers though, so for me it's a moot point. I have to add this, AHS, as DC suggests, is wonderful to work with and has truly excellent customer service, AquaTraders has no support and no customer service. But, as they say "You get what you pay for". In this case, since I do think their product is excellent, the lack of support would be the only draw back. I should also say that I have never needed support from AquaTraders, so it doesn't matter to me.

Larry

[tpl*co]

OK, recap on the light issue...

Definitely need a retrofit for the wooden canopy and with the odd shape it'll be tough to get the amount of light and the reflectors in there. Someone suggested MH but I thought I would need more clearance or ventilation in a wooden canopy but it seems I saw an article that says that Hamilton universal MH retrofits need just 5" clearance with a glass tank? (power compacts and flourescent need 3")? My canopy is taller so it would have a 5" clearance depending on the bulb mount (but would need a fan) also would need to cover the top of the tank since it seems that the bulbs need to be protected from moisture? Has anybody installed a Metal halide in a canopy before and give me the pros and cons?

This will be a deep weird shaped room divider planted tank lol. Also looking power compacts but the space they take to get the wattage may be a PITA also. In addition, the installing the lights on the canopy door may be a hassle for access (and being blinded each time I open it and the cord slack it would require).

Errrr, trying to research retrofit lighting on the web is like looking at smoke and mirrors!

[lhforbes12]

Thanks Larry,

So the higher Kelvin the hotter and whiter the light? Is that why I see the 6700 is a yellow white and advertizements for the 10000 K is a "crisper" white?

Also, to continue on another post the 2 WPG planted low tech rule doesn't apply to big deep tanks? I'll be getting a fixture that will be bringing me to about 3wpg. Should I see if I need to put my other fixture on there too for 4 wpg? (I haven't gotten the tank here yet, I sure hope these guys will fit! I've talked to the seller of the tank though and he said they will though :)).

Tina

2 wpg is more than enough IMO, especially since it is a "low tech", no added CO2, tank. I personally would stay away from Metal Halides, not so much for heat (compare power compacts and metal halides for heat and they are virually the same) but MH are a point source type light and will tend to look like spot light(s) from so close a distance. Plus, as I already said, 2 wpg is more than enough for your tank. I would still go with the largest (length) PC light you can put in the tank and suspend it on a couple of 1x laths. 27" is not too deep for fluorescents, besides you will want slow growing lower light plants anyway because of the CO2. Anubias, Echinodorus, Sagittaria, Cryptocoryne, Java fern/moss would all be good choices for you. The Amazon Sword Plants would look especially striking in so deep a tank IMHO. One thing to consider is, how are you going to reach to the bottom of so deep a tank to plant and clean? You'lll need some planting tongs and one of those algae scrubbers on a brush handle. I don't know what the foot print of your new tank is, so I can't advise about the exact size light fixture you would need
6700K is a fine light temperature to get. A better choice would be what looks good to YOU, the plants can use almost any visible light to grow.

Larry

[lhforbes12]

If you want to use retro fits go here: http://www.ahsupply.com/

a bit pricey IMO but they come with very high end materials, and are worth the money.