My Spotty Fish

[Jeckel]

Hi,

I posted on 5/20 about a discus with white spots. It's one of 4 adults in a bb 55-gallon tank. At that time there were just a few spots, but now there are a lot more.

I was skeptical that it was ich because the water has been at a constant 86 degrees, and none of the other fish has been affected. There have been no water chemistry problems. The infected discus seems to feel fine: eating normally, not turning dark, no gill or slime coat problems. Also no scratching or flashing.

Around 5/22 I raised the temp to 93 and added 1 tablespoon of salt per gallon. This didn't solve the problem; gradually the number of spots increased. After a week of this I treated the tank with PraziPro. The spots are still there, and still multiplying.

(I took a photo, but it's 400 kB. Can I post this? The attachment manager window seems to say the max size is 85 kB).

I would think the high temp and salt would knock an ich infection out in a matter of days. Also, the spots seem to stick out a bit more from the fish than ich. Some of the larger ones stick out so much that I think I can see them "wiggle" a bit (I think this is due to water currents).

I wondered if the spots were what people call "headworms": pus extruding from points of skin erosion. But the spots are on the body, not just the head or lateral line area; also there are some spots on the fins.

I'm baffled! Can someone help?

Jerry

[AmberC]

Jerry,
I think it would help a lot if you can get that pic posted. You can post a pic that size, but not thru the attachment option here. Go and register at www.photobucket.com (http://www.photobucket.com) .. Its free. Its an online picture hosting website. Upload your picture there, then take the link and put it up here. If you are not sure exactly how to do it I can help.

This does sound odd and I know one of our great mods will be able to help you, but def. get that pic up!

Amber

[Jeckel]

Okay, I think I know how to insert these images now, thanks to Amber and Al. They seem to post very big but I guess that's okay...

Sorry these photos are a little out of focus. The spots only show up well at certain angles and of course the fish wasn't cooperating very well. The photos actually show the spots reasonably well, although in reality of course the spots aren't so fuzzy. Actually, there are some spots that show white patches or aureoles on the skin, as seen in the pics. These seem not to be associated with the more well-defined spots that protrude from the fish; I think they're either old spots that have "come to a head" and popped or new spots just forming.

Anyway, here goes...hope this works and someone can help...

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/JeckelDisc/Spots.jpg

and another:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h239/JeckelDisc/Spots2.jpg

[pcsb23]

Ok, not certain but I think it may be Chilodonella or lernea (anchor worm). Both need immediate treatment, if its Chilodonella its relatively easy to treat, Foramlin and malachite green or PP or salt baths at quite strong levels of 3 tablespoons a gallon for 20 mins. Even metro can be used. Prazi should sort lernea but you will need to continually dose for 3 weeks. Normally with lernea the tails can stick out by up to a third of an inch. Sorry I can't be more definite.

First course of action if it were me would be treating for Chilodonella.

hth,

[AmberC]

Awww Poor thing! Good luck with treatment!

Amber

[Jeckel]

Thanks for the info...Looking at the fish, I'd say the spots don't look like anchor worms, at least based on the pictures I've seen in books. Chilodonella is an interesting possibility (I'd never heard of it before); maybe the circular patches are more significant than the granular-looking spots that stick out. I'll probably try a metro treatment, since the other meds sound like they'd be hard on the fish or the biofilter. We shall see...

Thanks again,
Jerry

[Jeckel]

Okay...here's a followup on my discus with the mystery spot disease. I think the problem is finally resolved. I isolated the affected fish (the spots never spread to the others though) and tried various treatments. Metro didn't seem to help. I started doing potassium permaganate dips once a week and kept the fish in Prazi. The spots seemed to be getting better but I still thought there were some on the tail so I stopped the Prazi and treated with copper (still keeping up the PP dips). And now there are no spots. I'll start removing the copper in a few days and maybe put the poor fish back with the others in a week or so. Never did identify the parasite, but the bottom line is that for a problem like this I'd recommend PP dips and either Prazi or copper.

Jerry

[AmberC]

I am glad he is starting to feel better Jerry!

Amber

[pcsb23]

Jerry, pp is much maligned but can still be a very effective treatment. The combo of pp and prazi would be quite powerful. Glad it seems to be working out.

[greyhoundfan]

Good news.. What proportions did you mix Potassiam Perm. with water.

[Jeckel]

I used PermOxy and dosed as per the instructions on the label (I think two teaspoons per 10 gallons).

[Jeckel]

P.S. Don't make the mistake I made at first and dose PP in a hospital tank that you've just set up including a dose of dechlor. Stuff like Amquel and Prime seems to neutralize potassium permanganate, which may be one reason it took a while to get results with my treatments.

[lhforbes12]

Good news.. What proportions did you mix Potassiam Perm. with water.

Reid,
Permoxy is dosed at 2.5 ppm per their recommendation. This is what I usually dose at too.

[Graham]

Not sure what the parasite was or is but it's not chilodinella or lernea...

Chil is a microscopic parasite and kills quickly.... Salt may work on it but at 0.3% which is 3 teaspoons per gallon. F&MG will look after it.

Lernea, is a macro parasite and shows up as 1/4'' long Y shaped critters hanging off the fish......The Y's have egg sacs in them .......Prazi is for worms and won't hvae any effect on these guys. Products that have
Diflubenzuron in them like Dimilin and Anchors Away will look after it........

G

[Jeckel]

I agree that it didn't present like either of those two parasites. I'm still in the dark about what I was dealing with here. I e-mailed Discus Hans, from whom I bought the fish, and he replied that he had seen something like this once in Holland. He took skin scrapings to a vet for microscopic exam but didn't find anything useful. He gave me links to two Internet threads, but they didn't give any conclusive ID either. One of the cases apparently cleared up with copper treatment in a few weeks, but no one gave any information on what can cause something like this.

[Graham]

While it looks like ich...ich is really easy to ID under a microscope so the Vet should have been able to ID it....

There are reports of a new strain of ich that spends it's whole life cycle on the fish and would to be a major pain to kill....any parasite that cysts up like that are hard to kill....

Anymore Pics...the closer the better

G

[pcsb23]

Must admit the problem that Jerry's fish have or had is a strange one. I was thinking about this new ich strain but not sure its that either.

The link below is to an article published recentl;y on this new strain, a little worrying but we probably need more facts too.

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=954

I guess the good news from Jerry's perspective is that his fish is recovering.

[architect1]

poor guys. I hope they get better. I hate getting a parasite. Good luck and hope they get better soon.

[Jeckel]

Since there are currently no spots visible, I'm happy to say there will apparently be no more pics!

If this is a new strain of ich, it is capable of happily surviving in 93 degree water, with a strong salt concentration, for a week or more. Also, some of the "spots" protruded enough from the fish that they wiggled a little when the fish moved, so it really doesn't seem like ich to me. So it's easier to say what it's not, than to say what it is.

[Graham]

Don't let your guard down yet...a lot of parasites, like ich, that have a cyst life stage on a fish, also have a free swimming and sessile one...then they come back with a vengance. I would maintain the heat, salt and the meds for several weeks.

Good luck

G

[deanne]

Hi there,

I think one of my fish has this same thing. At least this seems like the closest thing I've seen described on the forum to what I have on my 4" turquoise. Raised, pimple-like spots near the base of dorsal fin and tail. One of them is like a "dash", the others, four or five are round and a little pointed, and they all look smooth rather than fuzzy.

I will attempt to do the treatments you have done; thanks for any further advice you can give!
d