short gill

[Winson Lau]

Dear all experience breeder,

Please help, I notice some of my discuss fry have short gill problem, any things can i done to prevent this kind of issue?
Please advise

[Carol_Roberts]

In many cases it is genetic. I've also read that it can be caused by water problems with the fry. Once short gill plates appear they do not grow back to normal.

[1977]

Just have to cull them. I think it is water changes that prevent short gill plates because I've had some batches with short plates and then from the same parents another batch with no short gill plates, so I assume I did better wc.

[AADiscus]

I believe it can be genetics also but I also think if the fry go thru any sickness when they are still very, very young can attribute to it too. I have seen it a few times with ours and they get culled. Not to say they wouldn't make great fish for someone though.

[Rod]

incease the quality of your water especially in the first few days, i doubt very much it is genetic.

[AADiscus]

So Rod, what actually causes the short gill. I have read on this a little on another thread a while back but have forgotten all it said.

[Rod]

Hi Angela,

I'm not really sure exactly what causes short gills, its a problem that i have been fortune enough to avoid in the main. When it has occured i felt it was water as the fry do not have short gills in other spawns that pair have produced. I think if its genetic then it should occur every time which it doesn't. I have read where short gills can also be produced due to lack of certain vitamins and minerals in the feed, i have also read where parasites could be the problem. Perhaps there is a combination of factors that lead to this problem.

[AADiscus]

Thanks for the reply Rod and sorry Winson, I am not trying to take over your thread.

We have one breeder that has a short gill but is a very pretty fish. I talked Andrew into keeping him and using him as a breeder because he is so pretty just to see what he would throw. He does throw some short gills but it is not all the time. I wonder if it is vitamins/nutrition? However, on that note, we feed about 4 different kinds of flakes, worms, BH, BBS (to babies). So I wonder where the vitamins were not enough. Does that make since. Maybe it is just how you raise them since everyone has there own way but can still be successful.

[Winson Lau]

Dear all,

Thanks for advise. I try add in more salt and calcium everyday and monitor about 1 week. Now I notice some of my 2' fry already recover.

[kaceyo]

Hi Winson,
When you say you noticed some 2" fry already recover, do you mean they were looking like they had short gill plates but after adding calcium they grew into normal gill plates? What type of calcium are you adding and is it in food or water?
Thanks,

Kacey

[AADiscus]

We add one dissolved calcium pill to our BH mixture.

[kaceyo]

Angela,
I also add 1 250mg gelcap of calcium p/lb of BH mix. I also add cal chloride and magnesium sulphate to my growout water. I'm curious to see if Winson had fry with short gill plates that grew into normal gill plates after his additions. I haven't run accross the short gill plate problem so I don't know but was told that once they were short they'd never go back to normal. Maybe there is a point at which it's repairable?

Kacey

[Winson Lau]

Actually I do no know what kind of calcium use. I purchase from farmasi.
but it cannot 100% solve short gill problem, still under monitor. let see another 1 or 2 week. if confirm 100% can recover, will let your know

[Alight]

I had a batch with many short gills. After reading on this site, I increased the calcium in the water immediately after the fry hatched, and decreased the short gill coverings by 95% (only a very few had short gill coverings).

I went from Gh of 1-2 to a GH of 5-6 after hatching.

So it may be partly genetic, partly environment.

My feeling is that it is not necessarily the calcium alone that is the problem, but a combination of calcium and other things in the water, perhaps emulsifiers that prevent the calcium from being used properly. This could explain why experts "feel" that water quality if an issue here, and why frequent water changes help (replenish calcium used and dilute potential organic compounds). It also could explain why some breeders have very good results in water with almost no calcium in it, while others need much more calcium for good fins and gill coverings, and good growth.

[Winson Lau]

Short gill before treatment.

[Winson Lau]

short gill after treatment. Up to now not 100% can recover.

[AADiscus]

They are looking alot better. This makes me wonder some on what can we do different different to adjust for the short gill issue when you have it in a spawn. Genetics????? Not Generic???????

[Alight]

As with most trait expression, it's usually both genetic and environment. Genetics can make a fish susceptible to short gill covers, and low calcium can precipitate the problem and make it worse. I still believe that calcium works not directly, but my controlling another factor, such as preventing the action of another agent in the water.

Anyway, good news for this batch of fry.

[kaceyo]

Winson,
I'd like to see the same side of the same fish in the first pic to see if there is a difference. You can't really tell if it's improved unless comparing the same gill before and after.
Thanks,

Kacey

[Carol_Roberts]

Discus can have a short gill plate on one side and a nomal gill on the other. Not all in a group of discus raised in same water will have short plates. I have lots of minerals and change from RO to well water after eggs hatch. I had problems with some pigeons a few years ago - thought maybe it was too rapid growth . . . . now have had problems with calicos who don't grow fast at all. Water is clean, tried feeding only pellets so nothing could be introduced with frozen or fresh foods. Some still have short plates.