FINALLY ~ I am doing this....!

[Kindredspirit]

Hey Guys I am mixing up these two tanks today as I can not take it anymore! The first picture is why ~ The two SS trap this poor GoldenX in this corner consistently and last night he was def trippin! Not sure how much more he can take....There are two smaller ones in this tank AND two smaller ones in my other 55gal tank which I hope I showed that to you...

I want to ~ ******** I am not really sure who I want to move and switch ~ hence the reason of this thread....lol! Since I have been thinking of who to switch I ask myself : " who wld Angela switch or Tony Or Andrew or Frank Or Dis or Ryan....or Amber... or Al ...or Tim ( well not you Tim...I know what you would do..lol ) but you get the point....

If I could get some input on the best way to go .....some suggestions I would so appreciate it! There are only 11 discus total so one tank will only have five...I just want to balance things out a little better if possible ~ hopefully it wont come back to bite me in the butt!

I know that there will always be a low man on the totem pole ..so to speak...but I'm thinking that this poor fish that is cornered gets so dark...I am worried...

So......Who would YOU switch? Thanks Guys!

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

Here is WHY I want to mix it up ~
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_8677Small.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_8703Small.jpg


Next are pics of this tank#1:

The three biggest and the meanest
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_4175_2WinCE.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_9402WinCE.jpg


The smallest and the ones that get cornered ~ def a significant in size
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_6127SmallWinCE.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_6135SmallWinCE.jpg


Tank #2: office:


These three are def the biggest and the meanest ~ they fight more amongst themselves as opposed to picking on the little ones ~
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_5955WinCE.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_6026WinCE.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_3812SmallWinCE.jpg


These two are the smallest in the tank and they just basically sit up in the corner where you see them! THESE and the TWO from the other tank are the ones I want to put together but....I am sooooooooo confused...I don't know which to switch!
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/MidnightKiss4u/IMG_7219WinCE.jpg


Soooooooo .......now that everyone is completely confused ....lol! Should I put all four small ones together with a big one?? What I would like to do is put a few of the ones with way too much attitude in for a 'visit' with my Africans ~ lil attitude adjustment? lol!


Thanks Guys!!

[cobaltblue]

Hi Marie,

I just moved one that was getting picked on in my 90g, thought he was going to die since he was always black, and losing slime coat. I took him\her out of the 90 and put him\her into my 125g with about 12 other discus and she is doing great. Her colour has all come back and she is eating normally, acually, she is eating aggressively. Its so nice to see. So that is a thought of what you could do. Just move the one always getting picked on to another tank.

ps...im picking up my africans today...at least a few. Starting out with shell dwellers.

[pcsb23]

Marie,

I would start by putting the ones of a similar size together, so if you have say 5 smaller ones, I would put them in one tank and the rest in another. You could then make sure the one being picked on was in that tank (with the smaller ones).

Hope that makes some sense!

[Dissident]

Set up a 210gal HT Planted tank and put them all in the same tank :D

[AmberC]

I still think you should take the three meanies and stick em in with your africans for a bit ;)

Amber

[poconogal]

I still think you should take the three meanies and stick em in with your africans for a bit ;)

Amber
No, no, no... do fish sandwiches! And I'll contribute my BD, a royal b*tch and a half!

Connie

[Havoc321]

Sounds like time for another tank to me :)

Isn't that the rationalization we all generally use - I call it "Fish Math!"

Kelly
140G, 55G, 2-40G, 3-29G, 20G, and 10G

[used2bBubbles]

No, no, no... do fish sandwiches! And I'll contribute my BD, a royal b*tch and a half!

Connie

Oh, Connie, how funny!!!!! So you have a nasty BD, eh? I do, too, and she loves to pick on my newer BT. Luckily, the BT has a little chutzpah and she's starting to fight back in spite of her being smaller!

Hey, Marie, I'd try the all the smaller ones together, too. Sounds logical...WAIT! Fish aren't logical!!!! oh nooooooo

[Kindredspirit]

Set up a 210gal HT Planted tank and put them all in the same tank :D


Ya know Dis....not funny! And: KELLY...you can keep your fish math;) lol!!

Paul ~ thanks for some serious advice here!! lol! And ladies....what can I say ~ I talk to you three all the time!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_8.gif

[Kindredspirit]

Hi Marie,

I just moved one that was getting picked on in my 90g, thought he was going to die since he was always black, and losing slime coat. I took him\her out of the 90 and put him\her into my 125g with about 12 other discus and she is doing great. Her colour has all come back and she is eating normally, acually, she is eating aggressively. Its so nice to see. So that is a thought of what you could do. Just move the one always getting picked on to another tank.

ps...im picking up my africans today...at least a few. Starting out with shell dwellers.


That is an idea Chris ~ just move one...or two only ~ def something to think about! Thank You!

Soooo.........the Gentlemans' gettin his Africans! Oh YEaH!! I want pics Canada:p

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_8.gif

[AmberC]

Chris.. what kind of Shellies are you getting?! I went Tang too and I got L. Meleagris/stappersi. I just LOVE them. Now if I could just get the 55 in control and put them back in it!

Ooops.. sorry Marie.. guess that should go in another thread.

Amber

[AADiscus]

I would put all the small ones in one tank and the rest in the other. See if that helps on the pick'n and if the one will be more social. :)

[Kindredspirit]

Ooops.. sorry Marie.. guess that should go in another thread.

Amber


You know that doesnt bother me! Thanks Angela ~ I am bout to do this!!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_11.gif

[Willie]

Marie;

The logical move is to put the bullies into different tanks. Even if you switch the bullies between tanks, they will be somewhat disoriented and take time to adjust. During the time, the submissive fish will have a chance to establish dominance or semi-dominance. You need to do something because the fish in the last picture are showing a lot of stress.

Willie

[candyl70]

So.... did ya do it???

[Kindredspirit]

Marie;

The logical move is to put the bullies into different tanks. Even if you switch the bullies between tanks, they will be somewhat disoriented and take time to adjust. During the time, the submissive fish will have a chance to establish dominance or semi-dominance. You need to do something because the fish in the last picture are showing a lot of stress.

Willie


Thank You Willie! I so agree with you! I am on it~ A post that 100% convinces me ~ I so appreciate it more than you know~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[AmberC]

That does sound very logical Willie.. much better than sticking em with the africans for a bit eh? lol

Amber

[Kindredspirit]

Darn Amber!

[marilyn1998]

Marie,

You have gotten some good advice. Since they are all healthy go ahead and move them. I agree keeping the smaller ones together and all. Good luck. we want pics!!!

[Kindredspirit]

I hope someone comes back here in the next 30min...but some how I doubt it! I am about ready to move some discus...

In almost a year of having both of these tanks I have never...netted one of these fish.... I am sooooooo afraid guys...what a baby huh?

So.........juss net him and plop him in right?


dayum

[Kindredspirit]

To all who pass this way again...I have ~ upon rec'ving some calls and emails/pm's decided to not mix my tanks at this time.

There are some that believe my tank had the "Discus Plague" and I was pretty much convinced as well ~ as I trust these individuals I will heed their advice ~ apparently this illness is enternal and as it cannot attack themselves again it may still spread to healthy fish ~ and most wait 6months at least ~

Thank You to all that contacted me ~

Thanks everyone for all the advice ~ perhaps in a few more months I shall re-evaluate things....

...and I had that net in my hand:( Talk about the nick of time, eh?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=50775



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_10.gif

[used2bBubbles]

Well I am glad I "passed this way again." I had not seen your post on the plague. Wow, what a close call! You have good discus friends, Marie. They voiced their opinions and I'm glad you listened.

Score one for Marie! :)

[pcsb23]

Marie, what makes you think they have plague??

[AmberC]

Darn Amber!

lol.. and darn for you on deciding to not mix em cause I know its buggin you. They were pretty sick. I guess its better to be safe than sorry.

Amber

[lhforbes12]

Marie, what makes you think they have plague??

I'm with Paul on this but I'll go further, if it were the plague I doubt very much Furan 2 would have helped, yet it did. IMO it was a bacterial infection, nothing more. BUT I do agree that it's always best to "better be safe than sorry".

[raglanroad]

Marie, I also do not believe for a second that your fish had "Plague". Not only that, but one fish expert I know has produced "plague" symptoms consistently merely by fiddling with redox (call it dissolved oxygen levels, with the addition of "rotting of something" levels in the water) and then the fish come down with a variety of diseases.

In one photo , Oliver Lucanus holds a wild caught discus, that looks bad like your fish when they were sick. I also saw an entire tank of wild angels just a short time in after being imported, so covered in white you could barely see where their eyes were on a few. I had to take a pass on them, even though I travelled hundreds of miles to get them. they were scary !
Yet he knew thay were already on the mend, my friend got some and they were fine after 90 degrees for a week or two ( Oliver's advice ). And the tankful recovered just fine in Oliver's care. I bought mine just a couple weeks later from him.

So my opinion is that the majority of "plague" diagnosis are incorrect. Of course, no correct identification has ever been found for "plague" , or it would have a name.

If you think they had "plague", then you must use extreme caution forever as you work with your tanks. So much easier to get a cull, quarantine, deparasitize, then see if the cull gets "plague" when you use "plague tank" water to fill his quarantine tank. That way you free yourself from that concern.

As to netting, check out the dollar stores, and get a big, soft butterfly net ( might have to chop off the 3 ' handle). These nets are way better than the hard, small, expensive nets from fish stores. And they are disposable - they are so cheap.

For the "which fish to put where" problem, likely a variety of different mixes or moves could alter the behaviour.

However, angels and discus that stare into the filter or corner should be watched carefully, especially if they start to bump into the glass for no reason ( that is a late symptom ). It could indicate an internal problem getting a bit stronger. Have they properly dosed for spiro etc. ?

If they do not stare blankly, they just hide, that is just from being bullied.

D

[AADiscus]

Just move the fish!!!!!!!! LOL :D If your fish have anything both tanks will have it since you use the same hoses, etc. on both tanks. It is not going to mess anything up. The best way to move them is drain both tanks to about 50%. Start moving the ones that will get moved. You will not be moving all fish. This will probably even make them happier since some get picked on.

Do you want me to fly to Cali and do it for ya???? :D :D

[Kindredspirit]

I am so confused http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_28_113.gif

[Kindredspirit]

Do you want me to fly to Cali and do it for ya???? :D :D


aww.....That would be so very cool Angela!! Itz tough bein me ya know? lol!...but someone's gotta do it I suppose~

Thank You Angela for always being here for me....


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_2_104.gif

[pcsb23]

Marie,

IF and i do mean IF your discus had plague it would be in all of the tanks by now. In my limited understanding it is airborne, at least by all the research Ive done and by talking to people who are both knowledgable and claim to have had it. Also it is as rare as rocking horse sh!t.

If you want to move your fish around do so and don't worry about it ok.:)

[AmberC]

Also it is as rare as rocking horse sh!t.



LMAO!!

Amber

[Kindredspirit]

Marie,

Also it is as rare as rocking horse sh!t.

If you want to move your fish around do so and don't worry about it ok.:)



Rocking horse sh!t? Now that ~ that my dear friend is classic! Can i have it? I love it.

and you Paul ~ thank you very much, Sir ~

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_11.gif

[pcsb23]

:D

[Kindredspirit]

I did it. Those who are going to read this. I did it. Those I spoke to. I did it. And I hope that you do not think less of me for not ......for taking this road:o And I know that you guys will help me fix it if I made a poor choice.

I dont think I have ever used periods in a sentence before. Kinda makes a point I suppose. However boring it is.

I took some pictures ~ and will post them as soon as they all calm down cuz they are not happy with me right now ~ their hearts are all skipping a beat....

As is mine ~

Im tellin ya these are strong lil suckers! I have tons of water splashed on the floor from a teensy net ~ I figured my net from HELL was just too dayum big ~ They swam right into the net. I thought I'd wld burst into tears:( They flipped flopped all the way to the other room and I almost lost one on to the tile! Would he have died? Don't answer that~

Anyways the tank here in my office has all the little ones and the bss and the Snowflake is actually SWIMMING and not staying her her proverbial corner of the last year~the two Golden Albinox ...the reason I wanted to move them all in the first place are doing great!

The tank in our Living room is not doing all that great:( Ms. Pringles is no longer Queen or King ~ My huge Tang is ..******** I dont even know what color he is right now!! The really big Golden is chasing all three new ones around and around and around ~ all discus in that tank are big and pretty much equally matched ....could be brutal...

I am worried about that tank ~

So pics soon ~ Thanks everyone!!

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_11.gif

[AmberC]

I think all will be fine after they establish their pecking orders :) (Have you ever seen horses establishing pecking orders? Thats scary! lol.. especially when you are standing close!)

I cant wait to see the pics!

Amber

[White Worm]

We all figured you couldnt resist the chance to upset the delicate balance of the discus community! :D J/K, I think they will calm down and things will be fine.

[Kindredspirit]

I did upset it ~ make no mistake about that Mike ~ the one tank with all the big ones....wow....the three I added in are NOT happy still ~ the biggest one that was in there inititally is chasing them every where! And at high speed ~ it is worrisome to say the least as I have never seen anything like this:(

How long do you think it will take? Days? Weeks?

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_11.gif

[AADiscus]

Marie, turn the lights off in the tank with the big fish until tomorrow. Maybe that will calm them down.

[Kindredspirit]

Done. And what a difference Angela! Immediately everyone separated and all is mellow!

I never thought of that ~ you are good:p


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_11.gif

[White Worm]

Thats actually a better time to do the switch........at night after they have gone to bed or in the morning before they wake up. Then it is not such a shock.

[used2bBubbles]

Hang in there, Marie! They'll straighten out for you. At least the tank in your office is doing well. Maybe you should put the little ones in your home and the big ones at work so you don't see them fight so much....?

[candyl70]

Awesome Marie!!!! You have been wanting to do this for so long!! I can't wait to see some pics!!!! :D :D

[traco]

Woo hoo!! You did it and already one tank is better. The other, well, that is the tank of bullies with new bullies coming in. Did you also try rearranging the "furniture" around? That will help too. Confuse the fish that were already in there, that plus adding the new ones.:D

Everyone will calm down, including you. Pics whenever would be great too. I'd love to see the new color in each tank.

[lhforbes12]

Woo hoo!! You did it and already one tank is better. The other, well, that is the tank of bullies with new bullies coming in. Did you also try rearranging the "furniture" around? That will help too. Confuse the fish that were already in there, that plus adding the new ones.:D

Everyone will calm down, including you. Pics whenever would be great too. I'd love to see the new color in each tank.

Great advice

[used2bBubbles]

Why don't you calm down with your camera???????

[hexed]

Paul,
LMAO! that was good! You come up with the winning lines LOL.

Marie,
I perfer to do my switching at night cause the lights go off and all are fine by the time I crawl out of bed LOL! just keep an eye on the ones getting bullied and when feeding use the entire tank top to feed. In other words don't just put food on one side of the tank, put it on both sides so the weaker one gets plenty to eat as well.
Frank

[AADiscus]

I'm glad they calmed down. Normally it will take a day for the older fish to get used to the new tank or new fish in the tank with them. Little ones seem to adjust better. Be patient though! They will come around. I'm thinking about ya. ;) Let me know if you need anything.

[Kindredspirit]

Why don't you calm down with your camera???????


I will thankyouverymuch!! Got your email Kathi ~ you okay?


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[used2bBubbles]

THAT, my dear, is a matter of opinion.....:(

[Kindredspirit]

I'm thinking about ya. ;) Let me know if you need anything.


Thank You Angela ~ you and Andrew are always there for me ~ That tank isnt doing well tho ~ the three ones I moved in there are def not happy:(


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[used2bBubbles]

Why do you say they aren't happy? What's wrong?

[Kindredspirit]

Barb ~ I talked to you on the phone a few min ago! Where are my Apples?? hmm...?

Frank ~ I AM on the phone with you:) Candy ~ I have no idea where you are:( but thanks!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[marilyn1998]

Marie,

Even when I moved all my fish to the 30G to change my substrate, and then 5 hours later BACK to the original tank, all the kids started trying to show who is boss. They calmed down, and I just turned out the lights. I think you did good and they will come around. You know how older folks dont like change... those bigger ones now have to check out the new mating competition/possibilities!

[Kindredspirit]

Okay Guys ~ Here are some pics of the changes ~ The tank with all the smaller ones and the bss are doing pretty well now ~

I hope that the tank in the family room lightens up a bit:( ... I am worried about my pretty Tangerine cuz she isnt pretty no more:( :( I may move her back ...so she can hang with the bss as he is the biggest now...and put the ss back...where he came from ~

Would that be a very uncool thing to do? To move then one more time? This pic is when I first added them ~ the bss said 'oh hell no'!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_13.gif

[Kindredspirit]

and....now:) These two smallers ones are so happy here ~

[Kindredspirit]

Other tank with all larger ones ~ Ms. P isnt the Queen Bee anymore:( I hope she is going to be okay guys~ chases her every where non - stop

[Kindredspirit]

what have i done:( This is difficult to look at


Turning off the light did help tho Angela ~ now they are all at the top end and not so dark ~

I am beginning to question the wisdom of what I did~

[pcsb23]

Marie,

It takes a little longer for older fish to calm or settle down when moved, particularly if they haven't been moved a lot (which yours haven't). I moved a pair of Ocean Greens, about 2 years old, a few weeks back. They had been in a breeding tank for a while and had decided they didn't want to play anymore :( So i moved them to a display tank in my lounge. For the next few days they sulked and were bullied by everything in that tank, they even went dark for a day. Now the male is the boss of the tank and they have laid twice, onceon a heater and once on the filter intake! Both look really good now too.

In other words, give it time and be patient! They will be ok.

[AmberC]

Aww.. I am sure everyone will be just fine once they settle! Or else I shall fly out there and smack em around for ya ;) They look great in their new tanks. I am sure they'll be fine!

Amber

[traco]

Marie, now remember what you said to me when I first put all my africans together and they were fighting, hiding, etc...? Something along the lines of "well, it's only been a day with them all together. They'll work it out."

So, I shall return the favour. "Well, it's only been a day with them all together. They'll work it out."

Move the fake plants around, don't look at the tank and things will improve. Maybe put a skim coat of sand on the bottom too. That'll confuse them too.

[Kindredspirit]

Move the fake plants around, don't look at the tank and things will improve.


..don't look at the tank!! How true!! You are nut!!

[used2bBubbles]

You know, Marie....I think your real problem is the bss, so if you'll just get that gorgeous fish packed up and shipped to me, I'm sure things will be fine!!! :)

Oh, I know it's hard for you to watch them bumbing and flipping their tails and who-knows-what-else. I hate it when things aren't "peaceful" in my tanks. But try not to let it stress you. You've got good people here giving you advice. And Angela says she'll fly out to smack 'em around if it doesn't straighten out, so no worries, my dear!

Kathi

[Kindredspirit]

I think they are doing a little better today! Ms. Pringles is thatz for sure Kathi! For being 'lfs trash' lol....and my first ever discus ~ she has bounced back and is holding her own in the new tank:)

I know I know you want my ss huh?


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_13.gif

[AADiscus]

Marie, Marie.....it's not the fish aren't happy!!!!!!! They don't like not being the boss of the tank. :D :D Everyone likes being the boss. Don't they???;)