Buying Discus From Dealers

[reefbum66]

I recently purchased several Discus from a Merchant in Riverview, FL. The first order was the highest quality Discus I have seen in my 7 years of raising Discus. I decided to order again and big mistake as the second order was really bad and not one fish that I ordered. Very small, fin and tail rot, white slim and only one was the type I ordered. Contacted the Merchant via 6 emails and two voice mails with no response. There was also one DOA and he has refused to refund the money for it. Contacted the BBB and found that the Merchant also refused to respond to the BBB and had more complaints than I expected. I found this Merchant on Yahoo and since he was the first in the Sponsor section, I assumed he would be good. Just a word of advise form an old man, check the BBB before you order from anyone. Sure wish I had and will in the future. I did check a lot of the Merchants listed in Yahoo after the fact and there were some that had 0 complaints but many with a lot of no response complaints. Now that I have found this site I can do business with quality breeders.

[Harriett]

Oh, God what a bummer. What action did you take?

[AADiscus]

Sorry to hear about your lose and welcome to Simply. Hopefully next time you purchase discus it will be a better experience.

[reefbum66]

Oh, God what a bummer. What action did you take?


I filed a complaint with the BBB and also working with the Credit Card company to refuse charges. Not having much luck with either. This guy still has not made a refund for the dead fish and I did everything according to his instructions.

[1977]

Since Florida is a concealed carry state, I'd probably arm myself(for self defense) and go knock on his door, this is unacceptable.

[RandalB]

The Guy is a sponsor did you say? If so, PM Al Sabetta (Brewmaster 15) about it and do a negative I trader review on him...

RandalB

[terps]

I think he means the seller was a paid sponser on Yahoo. All you have to do to be a sponser on Yahoo or Google or other search engines is to be willing to spend some money. Being listed first as a sponser on those search engine pages means that person or company is willing to pay more money per click for key words than the competition. It has nothing to do with the quality of a company. A search engine sponsership is just an ad for a business, not a rating.

http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srch.php?o=US1447&cmp=Yahoo_SponsorResults&ctv=Search_Results&s=Y&s2=S&s3=

[RandalB]

Ahhh! Thanks for clearing that up! Thought we were gonna have to kick some butt....

RandalB

[tcfish]

Thats to bad you have to go through crap like that just to enjoy your hobby,Something Fishy about that seller.

[AADiscus]

Something Fishy........Now that is funny!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D Sorry couldn't help myself.

[daverich]

lol good one.

[sledwood]

Very phishy!!!!!!!!!!!!! Been there, done that. You're not alone. Had the same experience with the same party the first time I bought fish on-line also. Us old guys learn hard lessons. This is a place of reputable people who deal with honest vendors. Most of which are sponsors. If you have problems they go out of their way to help you solve them. There are ways to solve seller/customer disputes also (the itrader system). It works extremely well. Dishonesty is seldom tolerated. Glad you found us. This is the place to learn and the knowledge that these people pocess is staggering. You'll find they share it freely and willingly. Good luck. Stick with the people that help to make this board possible and you won't be sorry......................Ed

[Dillan]

Since Florida is a concealed carry state, I'd probably arm myself(for self defense) and go knock on his door, this is unacceptable.

Does anyone else find this comment disturbing?! Go settle a disagreement over a fish with a gun?!?! Is it just my Canadian sensibility, or is that whacked?

[Tony_S]

Is it just my Canadian sensibility, or is that whacked?

Nope...its whacked! But then UHHHM....I'M CANADIAN!!:D

What ever happened to the days of the trusty ol' Louisville slugger? :confused:

Tony

[Discus_KC]

Nope...its whacked! But then UHHHM....I'M CANADIAN!!:D

What ever happened to the days of the trusty ol' Louisville slugger? :confused:

Tony

Hmmmmmm..............

Tech 9 meets Louisville Slugger !!!!!!

Still confused ???

[1977]

Well it took long enough to get somebody stirred up! I was hoping to get a rise from somebody. I did say that it would be for SELF DEFENSE(in case the guy is a nut). Sometimes you have to take the law in your own hands! You do believe that a person should have the right to defend themselves and their property don't you?

[pcsb23]

ok guys lets get this back on thread please.

[lhforbes12]

Very phishy!!!!!!!!!!!!! Been there, done that. You're not alone. Had the same experience with the same party the first time I bought fish on-line also. Us old guys learn hard lessons. This is a place of reputable people who deal with honest vendors. Most of which are sponsors. If you have problems they go out of their way to help you solve them. There are ways to solve seller/customer disputes also (the itrader system). It works extremely well. Dishonesty is seldom tolerated. Glad you found us. This is the place to learn and the knowledge that these people pocess is staggering. You'll find they share it freely and willingly. Good luck. Stick with the people that help to make this board possible and you won't be sorry......................Ed

A year and a half ago when I first got back into discus, I used this Phishy dealer myself. My experience was much like ReefBun and Ed's. Paid extra for morning delivery, got afternoon. Recieved 6 smaller than bought fish, 3 of which died in hours. the one's that survived were stunted, and were already stunted whern I got them, one of them was a cull. No return communication. Oh but we still get e-mail ads from this terrible breeder. It put me off buying fish online for awhile. I can say in all honesty that I wouldn't hesitate to purchase fish from any of the vendors on this site though.

Larry

[poconogal]

A year and a half ago when I first got back into discus, I used this Phishy dealer myself. My experience was much like ReefBun and Ed's. Paid extra for morning delivery, got afternoon. Recieved 6 smaller than bought fish, 3 of which died in hours. the one's that survived were stunted, and were already stunted whern I got them, one of them was a cull. No return communication. Oh but we still get e-mail ads from this terrible breeder. It put me off buying fish online for awhile. I can say in all honesty that I wouldn't hesitate to purchase fish from any of the vendors on this site though.

Larry
Larry, my first 4 fish, this time around, were from the phishy dealer too. In fact, I knew the original poster purchased from them by the name of his BD, Brilliant Blue Diamond. That's the ONLY place I ever saw them listed with that name, and that's where my BD came from also. Yep, they are phishy, all right - horrid experience, but they refunded 1/2 my money. That's how I ended up with a baby with swimbladder problem, and one baby immediately died, they all arrived in COLD water in a snowstorm, a week earlier than expected! Gill flukes, hex, you name it. Got the 4"+ ones straightened out and they are great now, the swimbladder baby we call Spinner, you can guess why, although he does swim around well only slanted some, he still goes horizontal and spins some of the time, but he eats well and is cute, so... My Golden Pidgeon is really oustanding, round, beautiful, small eyes (no Bette Davis eyes there), and she has grown quite a bit, almost no pepper whatsoever, only a few dots, but when she turns around, a 1/8" x 1/4" brown splotch on one side. PHISHY is right! Buyer beware...

Connie

[reefbum66]

Sounds like the guy is still sending out the same garbage. The fish you guys got appear to be the same type I got. I have been medicating these babies since arrival and another one has died. The sad part is, the fish are the one's that have to suffer. Still working with my credit card company trying to get something back but from what I read here, that will be impossible. Thanks for all the support.

[poconogal]

Sounds like the guy is still sending out the same garbage. The fish you guys got appear to be the same type I got. I have been medicating these babies since arrival and another one has died. The sad part is, the fish are the one's that have to suffer. Still working with my credit card company trying to get something back but from what I read here, that will be impossible. Thanks for all the support.
I did get back 1/2 of my money, at least, straight from Keith, who is the dealer, when I cited fraud because they showed a BD with red eyes and mine had brown eyes. He claims that he's not responsible for fish that arrive differently colored, and of course, color can and does change as the fish reach adulthood, but so far as I know, not the eye color. Told him this - got my refund.

BTW, it turned out that the BD was sick, so was darkened a lot, making her eyes look brown. They are actually orange/amber! Still, NOT red!

Connie

[reefbum66]

Connie, sure glad everything worked out for you. Following the first shipment I talked with the guy several times and he was very helpful. I still don't understand why he would do something like this and I asked him that in my last email. The Discus are for my disabled son and he enjoys the different colors. Now I have four of one type and three of another. Most in full color so I am not sure if they will ever grow any larger. Just wish the guy would make an effort to resolve this and we could both have a better relation with each other. When the fish arrived I first thought one of his employee's had packaged the wrong fish but when he didn't respond to either of my six emails I decided that was not the case. I still hope we can work something out.

[White Worm]

I have a friend who also purchased 4 phish from this dealer. They were sick to begin with and horrible shapes and colors. She was never able to mix these fish with others in fear of sickness...not to mention....they were all culls to begin with. Bad business travels fast and I also wonder why someone would operate like that? You create more business with good business. Use the sponsors here, as far as I've seen or heard, you cant go wrong with the professionals associated with simply. They will take care of you no matter what happens.

[poconogal]

Connie, sure glad everything worked out for you. Following the first shipment I talked with the guy several times and he was very helpful. I still don't understand why he would do something like this and I asked him that in my last email. The Discus are for my disabled son and he enjoys the different colors. Now I have four of one type and three of another. Most in full color so I am not sure if they will ever grow any larger. Just wish the guy would make an effort to resolve this and we could both have a better relation with each other. When the fish arrived I first thought one of his employee's had packaged the wrong fish but when he didn't respond to either of my six emails I decided that was not the case. I still hope we can work something out.
reef, wow, I'm actually lucky, then, that my two larger ones are fine now and growing. The swimbladder baby has grown some too, but...

I feel bad for the fish.

Connie

[reefbum66]

Just to update this forum, I returned the Discus as he had informed my credit card company that I had not returned them and the jerk still refuses to do anything. No fish, extra cost to return them and still out the full amount. Every things phishy with this guy. I sure wish there was some way to put people like this out of business as it makes it look bad for all the good merchants. I have found two that are sponsors of the web site that are great. WARNING TO ANYONE WHO READS THIS, STAY AWAY FROM PHISHY MERCHANTS AND STICK TO THE GUYS THAT SPONSOR THIS SITE.

[TRAKURT]

I named this fish Phishy. Click on the pic. I will give you one guess where I purchased it from.

[pcsb23]

In the UK we have authorities that can close down businesses like this, costs nothing to lodge a complaint too. Although it takes time, it is a government department called the Office of Fair Trading or trading Standards. I am surprised that there isn't something similar in the USA.

Trakurt if I had that phish of yours I would cull it, sorry but I would.

[TRAKURT]

In the UK we have authorities that can close down businesses like this, costs nothing to lodge a complaint too. Although it takes time, it is a government department called the Office of Fair Trading or trading Standards. I am surprised that there isn't something similar in the USA.

Trakurt if I had that phish of yours I would cull it, sorry but I would.

No need to cull that ( phish) it died soon after I got it LOL.

[White Worm]

Problem here is there is no law against selling lower quality products. Sucks but he is not doing anything illegal by law. He is just not selling a product that we consider to be of high quality. Discus quality is not legally regulated and the only way to stop it is word of mouth but as long as people buy without researching and getting references, they will stay in business. Realistically, everyone has the option not to buy something that they consider to be an inferior product. You also must know that you always take your chances when purchasing mail order. Very sad though that someone would purposely degrade the hobby and rip off so many new people to the hobby. Imagine the many that got bad fish, got discouraged and quit without knowing the real deal? If it werent for Kenny, I may have been one of those many. Still.......always check feedback, talk with those who have purchased more than once and if you can, buy from local breeder so you can pick em in person. If you order through the mail, ask for pics of the exact fish you will be purchasing.

[pcsb23]

No need to cull that ( phish) it died soon after I got it LOL.Not suprised really, damn sorry state to ship anything in.

[pcsb23]

Problem here is there is no law against selling lower quality products. Sucks but he is not doing anything illegal by law. He is just not selling a product that we consider to be of high quality. Discus quality is not legally regulated and the only way to stop it is word of mouth but as long as people buy without researching and getting references, they will stay in business. Realistically, everyone has the option not to buy something that they consider to be an inferior product. You also must know that you always take your chances when purchasing mail order. Very sad though that someone would purposely degrade the hobby and rip off so many new people to the hobby. Imagine the many that got bad fish, got discouraged and quit without knowing the real deal? If it werent for Kenny, I may have been one of those many. Still.......always check feedback, talk with those who have purchased more than once and if you can, buy from local breeder so you can pick em in person. If you order through the mail, ask for pics of the exact fish you will be purchasing.
Much good advice Mike, I agree with a lot of what you say here. In the UK though we have something called 'Fit for Purpose' the fish that Trakurt got would not be classed as fit for purpose and would fall foul of the Trades description act (most likely), still if people don't do anything these scumbags stay in business, very sad...

[White Worm]

Yeah Paul, unfortunately, it would be hard to prove legally because we have no written guidelines for discus quality. It would be a futile battle in any court setting or even as a complaint to a BBB. You would think these places would be out of business pretty quick but I think they pull the switch......send a couple good ones out here and there and then throw out crap 3/4 of the time. At least they wont be selling to the 8,000 people here.

[pcsb23]

At least they wont be selling to the 8,000 people here.I hope not and thats for sure.

[reefbum66]

Thanks mike. I posted in hopes of alerting others of this guy and his products. He sure suckered me in with the good Discus first and then the worst Discus anyone could possible have with the next order. By the way, all the first group died. I recently purchased from DiscusDave and he was outstanding. Great guy, service, shipping and awesome Discus. Now I can only hope that I have prevented someone from buying from this merchant in Fla., getting disgusted and never realizing the enjoyment Discus fish can give.

[White Worm]

No worries, I got suckered in the beginning when I didnt know what quality was. Luckily for me and now you, we have dealt with some quality breeders after a run-in with a bad one and now have quality discus which makes this hobby alot of fun. Sounds lke you didnt do too much damage to the wallet before finding good quality. I bought locally (lfs) for a while in which I spent hundreds of dollars and they all died. Then I figured I would have better luck in the mail order market. Ran into bad breeder and lost another couple hundred dollars and the fish. I wont say any names but the initials are majestic discus, lol. OOps. Anyway, now you know and now you can let everyone know.

[April]

there was a fellow up here..who sent money..and the fish never came.well he had other orders from him..but he owed him some..and he sent money ahead for the next order. .he contacted the police department...and the guy in the states had to go to court. they charged him..not sure with what..but he was told he could no longer sell fish. he was a good breeder too...and he did have some good fish. he had a string of events and bad luck that put him in financial stress...and he began to cut corners. family to feed..main income..so quality went down.
the discus business...people start calculating how much they could make..from a batch..and..see dollar signs in their eyes. as shinshin always says...only way to become rich with discus is to start out rich.
of course..theres also those who started out rich..and spent their fortune on discus..got behind on taxes..etc..and had to go to debters prison.
so..moral of the story is...if you deal with anyone..sound them out..talk to them..email them..fone them..get references..and make sure they have a huge love for their hobby first and foremost and are extremely helpful and want to see you succeed.
we have some sponsors on simply who fit that description. actually..id say all of them have a passion and try to do the right thing by their customers. thats why Al signed them on as sponsors.