Artificial Raising fry

[novice breeder]

hi,
has anyone had success artificial raising fry? i would like to know what are the procedures and methods as well as the equipment , food etc. required to accomplish this task. i would also like pics to aid with the details? have anyone ever used liquifry as an alternative to the egg yolk formulae? Thanks in advance!!!:D :D :D

[AADiscus]

Never done artifical raising. Andrew has back in the 80's but I'm not forsure what all he used.

[Tony_S]

I'd have to say Cliff Young (Cliffsdiscus) would be the resident expert here at Simply...He's been raising artificially for a very long time.

Shoot him a Pm....

Tony

[aquaticplantman]

I recently bought a batch of juvie's which were artificially raised. I got them three weeks ago at 1 to 2 inches in size (there were three different batches), and they are doing great.

The seller said he didn't fool around with any of that fancy fry food. He was able to stay at home all day so he just kept them consistently feed with freshly hatched bbs. That's about all the details I know. The seller was getting out of the hobby and this was his last project before he finally had to give it up for good. He just wanted to see if it would work. It did.

Matt H.

[Squiggy]

Once they reach the bbs stage you're home free...Its the synthetic slime (eggyolk) feedings 6 or 8 times a day that will wear you out...Its tedious and time consuming...

[John_Nicholson]

I don't enjoy doing it but in certain situations I have done it. I use powdered egg yolk that I got of Dick Au. They will need that for only a couple of days and then it is on to bbs. You want very light airation. A bubble every couple of seconds. Sprinkle the egg yolk on top. Keep the water clean. I normally float the fry in a small plastic bowl. When I change the water I refill from the tank that the bowl is floating in. That way the the temp is the same. With fry a little food goes a long way.

Good luck.

-john

[Rod]

New fry will eat freshly hatched artemia no worries. Condense the fry into a small feeding area and feed every 3 hours or so.

[Alight]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=45333&highlight=rotifers

Check out the thread above for all you ask for.

Rod was one of the main contributers to this thread-- it's really informative with pics and the whole thing.

Good luck!

[CliffsDiscus]

I raise most of my frys artifically, generally I use the eggs yolk,
but if you are first starting see if you can buy the powder egg yolk
from a bakery.

[CliffsDiscus]

I usually will start pulling the eggs about 1 hour after spawning,
place the spawning cone or slate in a one gallon container. The
type of water is usually 100 percent R/O add som methyline blue
or acrifilavine also lower the ph to the lower 6. Wait till the eggs
are very near to hatching then pull the cone or slate out of the
R/O water in another 1 to 1 /2 gallon of clear water or tap
water without the chlorine.

[CliffsDiscus]

The feeding of the frys usually start on the 7th day, wait till the frys
are swimming at the water level. Usually the frys will be swimming
in a group at one location this is where the egg formula is pasted
on the side. I use a formula adding NVP or Metamucil mixing it together with the egg yolk, optional additive can be chicken base,
brine shrimp powder, and a green color type of veg. such as Spirulina or grass powder. The Metamucil will give the eggs powder
a stickness and the dark green powder can attract the frys to
the food.

[CliffsDiscus]

The amount of food will depend on the size of the batch. Usually a batch
of 100 frys would be 125 mg just to give you an estimate, also depending
of what type of Discus too The Blue Diamonds will consume half as much food
as some Pigeon Bloods. LSS will eat the same amount as turquoise as there
are a mixture of turquoise mixed in with the LSS.

[CliffsDiscus]

The time between feeding the eggs yolk would probably start every hour or
every other hour, try working up the every 4 hours, this goings on for
the next day or two. I use no medication as Furan2 for an extender between waterchanges, with the correct amount of food
on each feeding my current schedule allows me to change the
water as long as 12 hours, all this mean is it allows me to go
to work and have a long night sleep.

[CliffsDiscus]

At the end of the 2 or 3 day try adding some BBS, if the frys accept it
you can see their orange color stomachs.

[CliffsDiscus]

Once the frys are on the BBS you are over the hump, and can feed
every 8 hours.

Note: picture below were Feb. production.

[Squiggy]

Well....I'm impressed.....And I've done it before. :D

Thanks for posting that.

Joe

[novice breeder]

Thank You Cliff!!! Very informative!:D :D :D i will keep you posted on my progress.

[crimson cross]

Way to go Cliff....you da man!!!! You need to teach me some of your secrets..

Phil.

[CliffsDiscus]

Hi Phil,
You know where I live so no problem showing you how its done, as for
the secret its pratice, daily pratice there's no other way.

Cliff

[pcsb23]

Cliff, very, very impressive. I have one question though, why do you hand rear as against allowing the parents too? It looks to be a lot more work to me.

[Alight]

Artificial rearing allows pairing egg eaters that have very nice coloration and shapes. Sometimes, it's the only way to get a batch of fry from som non-cooperative parents. Alot more work, though. Not as much fun to watch, either.

[crimson cross]

Cliff, I have been "practising" for the last 20 years or so, but have yet to get it right...lol..

[Kenny's Discus]

Cliff, very nice work of yours! And I mean a lot of WORK. :) But that's what masters do...

Take care,
Kenny

[crimson cross]

Kenny, Cliff IS the real master.
Phil.

[Kenny's Discus]

Kenny, Cliff IS the real master.
Phil.

I definitely agree Phil!

Kenny

[CliffsDiscus]

Cliff, very, very impressive. I have one question though, why do you hand rear as against allowing the parents too? It looks to be a lot more work to me.

Hi Paul,
Let me try to answer your question, the pros and cons of artifically raising
raising.
First lets take the pros of raising artifical.
1. Production 4 to 5 times as many spawning or frys.
2. As Al mention, eleminate egg eaters, mix and match selected Discus.



3. Faster growthrate then frys raise with parents.
4. Health, much cleaner than in aquarium enviroment.
5. Last if I can't raise the frys artifically my Discus can't, if the Discus can't paid the rent they get evicted.

Now the cons;
1. TOO MUCH WORK, Total Burn out, more fish, more tanks, and more waterchanges.



Phil,
You been trying of the last 20years, I think your have the experience now to move into the artifical method then I can retire. You notice
that most people that use this method are near retirement age or already retired. I need to sign up for AARP soon.


Kenny,
Thanks, I heard your Magic Garage is doing well, Bay Area Discus Hot Spot.


Cliff

[Kindredspirit]

Kenny, Cliff IS the real master.
Phil.


Yes he is! I have seen it:)


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[crimson cross]

To me, the biggest advantage about AR is that you can have any cross combination or line combinations with any fertile males in your hatchery and be assured of F1s. In other words, you hold the destiny on the success of the spawns.
Phil.

[CliffsDiscus]

To me, the biggest advantage about AR is that you can have any cross combination or line combinations with any fertile males in your hatchery and be assured of F1s. In other words, you hold the destiny on the success of the spawns.
Phil.

Exactly, the breeder holds the key to success, this is when the tables turn
instead of the fish picking out their mates, its the breeder. For example,
my most recent crosses with the Fireworks(LSS) are Golden x LSS,
Gan(high body) x LSS, Wayne's Spotted Eruption x Fireworks(LSS).

Cliff

[kaceyo]

Hey Cliff,
Every time you explain how to do the AR thing to someone new I learn things that weren't in the last lesson. I've only done it a few times but the level of devotion those pics represent is just astounding to me. I'm sure others have said it before but you should try to gather the wealth of information in your head and put it into book form. I know you've helped me many times with my efforts.

Kacey

[pcsb23]

Cliff,

thanks for the response. I kinda guessed at #2:) but am surprised that you get faster growth rate raising them artificially. The rest makes a lot of sense. I also agree with Kacey, you should write a book on this!!

[CliffsDiscus]

Hi Kacey,
These are the unwritten lessons, the only better lesson is if the person actually see someone doing the AR. Take note on the timing of switching
RO to tap water, there is only a small window on time where I can switch
RO from a ph of 6 to the tap of a ph of 9 in only a matter of seconds. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.

Hi Paul,
Thanks, faster growthrate is accomplish by larger percentage of fresh waterchange. Most of my bowls are 1 gallon, on a normal growth 3 waterchanges of 100 percent in each bowl will give me a normal growing
rate. High growthrate will require 4 to 6 waterchanges, also heavy feeling
is done after each waterchange along with feeding between each waterchange.

Kacey and Paul,
Write a Book? The price of Discus will fall to a dollar, besides my writing hand is damage goods as I am typing with one finger.