Moral Values

[azzndude2005]

Just thinking

Do you think it's right for us to keep fish in tanks?
No one ask how the fish feel about it.
Then there's the worms we feed them, do we have the right to kill the worms.

[Squiggy]

Discus don't do well if allowed to run around on the floor...

and...no. Worms should be fed while they're alive. Only the discus should get to kill them...:crazy:

HTH

Joe

[April]

well..that goes for everything...most animals were genetically altered..and bred in captivity..and have adapted. for instance..domestic rabbits.they dont fair well in nature..as their stomachs have adapted to rabbit chow..etc..they get skinny..and are more prone to being predated..due to their colours etc.
most fish have been bred in captivity..and have different colours..shape etc than their wild cousins.
its like any animal..once you commit to keeping it..you try give it the best care possible .
its up to you as an individual..and what you feel. if you dont think its right ..then you just dont keep them.
one reason simplydiscus exists..is to help people care for their discus the best way they know how and learn more.
the fish breed in the tanks..so that tells me they are relaxed and comfortable and well cared for enough for them to be able to do that.

[White Worm]

Lets get real! Some of these discus live better than some humans. Someone taking care of your every need in a very clean environment. Top nutritional foods and as much to eat as you want. You are given every chance to breed with numerous members of the opposite sex. Every step taken to administer meds when they get sick. No threat of predators. Chance to become parent. I could think of worse living arrangements (the wild) and who cares about the worms. Most would never make it to 1,3 or 5 years old in their natural habitat. The majority probably never make it past fry stage.

[Kindredspirit]

Discus don't do well if allowed to run around on the floor...

and...no. Worms should be fed while they're alive. Only the discus should get to kill them...:crazy:

HTH

Joe


I agree with April and Mike ~ but I llike this .......a lot:)


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[Tony_S]

Then there's the worms we feed them, do we have the right to kill the worms.

:confused: :confused: Your joking :confused: :confused:

[AmberC]

I agree with April, Mike and Tony lol

If your going to ask questions like that, then what stops you from going further? What about having kids? No one asked the kids if they want to be had....

Sorry.. I just kind of feel like this is a little silly. Hope you dont take offense to that.

Amber

[1977]

I honestly think it is cruel, especially when you go to the zoo and see a caged lion. However there have been many benefits to captive bred and kept animals, including reducing extinction in some species and learning of benefits to humans through study of animals. Some animals would have never survived in the wild. As for discus, there is no doubt that most of us keep them simply for our pleasure which in a way is immoral,especially if they are neglected! I think the lord will forgive me on this one though!Damn it Kenny, why are you such a tree huggin hippy?!!

[Discus_KC]

Is this Al Gore posting ???? :hat: :hat:

When my discus start protesting and holding signs up boycotting living in a tank I will set them free. That will be immoral at that point !! Or good for a trip to a late night talk show !!!

This worm thing is intruiging. Look at all the worms that get killed when nature rains and they crawl on the pavement. Cars run them over, birds eat them, and that cruel sun just fries them !! Where is the outrage of PETA over this?? And then the fishermen who use them to fish with ???? There is no justice !!!!!

And those cable and computer companies who have to build and lay cables. The worms that died for our selfish internet privileges.

Just had to get this off my chest !!

[azzndude2005]

Thanks for everyone's insight. I just feel a little guilty.

[Discus_KC]

It's fine to feel guilty. But we could go to the Nth degree on all of this. Don't feed worms then!!!

Jack

[Kindredspirit]

Thanks for everyone's insight. I just feel a little guilty.


aww...do you really? Itz a dog eat dog world ~ just be glad you are at the top of the food chain:)


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_10.gif

[Marinemom]

Think of it this way. If we did not keep fish in our aquariums and try to provide the best of everything for them, they might not have even gotten that far in the wild. It's a win win situation. We have the pleasure of watching these beautiful creatures and they get to live basically a peaceful life with all of thier needs and wants fulfilled. Of course, that's if we make sure that we are providing the best care for them and that is why we are here asking so many questions to make sure that they get everything they need and want. I also keep a saltwater reef and this same argument goes for them as well. However, there are a lot of natural reefs that have been destroyed or are dying. Nineteen years ago when I saw the reef for the first time it was absolutely breathtaking. When I went back to the same reef this summer, a lot of it had been destroyed by the hurricanes and man himself. The reefs show signs of coming back but it could take thousands of years to get it back to the way it was. Maybe the only way in the future to see a beautiful reef is in home and pulic aquariums. I think it is the same way with these fish. Most of the strains today would not stand a chance in the wild but will live a nice life in our aquariums with thier every need attended to.

Marinemom

[sleonard]

If either the discus or the worms were big enough they would kill and eat us without a single thought (except maybe "Ummmm, human").

There are a lot of animals that are big enough and do kill and eat us. They do not waste any thoughts as to the morals of this. In fact every single life form in existance preys upon another and if they have any thoughts about it at all it is about how tasty that other guy is going to be.

I am just another life form that depends upon the death of others to survive. I don't waste my time wondering about the rightness or wrongness of it. It just is and there's nothing I could possibly do to change it. It's the nature of the world.

[sublevel007]

Well by looking at the person who posted this question they have posted 46 other items. No I don't have time to go and research the other 45 posts but I'm guessing he or she was asking wuestions about keeping discus in the past. Why the sudden change of heart?

[sublevel007]

OH Great PETA supporters are on the site now!

[lhforbes12]

:confused: :confused: Your joking :confused: :confused:

<gasp!> Tony you aren't out there killing worms are you?

[Tony_S]

I just feel a little guilty.

Assuming your NOT joking....and your truly feeling emotional distress because you caused the death of a worm...you need to find another hobby...AND see a shrink....

Tony :rolleyes:

[Kindredspirit]

AND see a shrink....Tony :rolleyes:




http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_111.gif

[Tony_S]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_29_111.gif


Marie......are you????........feeling the 'guilt' as well?


Tony:inquisitive:

[Kindredspirit]

Well I am dayumit! Those poor worms ~ is this for real? Itz like that 'weed killer' thread:confused:


When I can not think of anything to say to you Tony cuz I am laughing so hard.....

.......I can only come up with a smiley that wld appropriately fit YOU....and quite honestly there are over 10,000 of them and .......I never have the time or patience to find your match....

and some of them just wld not go over well here ...Heavens To Besty!!


M~

[AmberC]

Well I am dayumit! Those poor worms ~ is this for real? Itz like that 'weed killer' thread:confused:


When I can not think of anything to say to you Tony cuz I am laughing so hard.....

.......I can only come up with a smiley that wld appropriately fit YOU....and quite honestly there are over 10,000 of them and .......I never have the time or patience to find your match....

and some of them just wld not go over well here ...Heavens To Besty!!


M~

lmao you two are hilarious!

Amber

[lesley]

I was saddened (but not surprised) to see many of the ridiculing replies to this question. I think that many of the replies indicate a lack of empathy for anyone or anything else other than yourself, and displays the reason the human race engages in so many wars! Too many of the replies show that we are simply incapable of putting ourselves in the position of the "victim/"minority". Frankly, I think you should be ashamed of yourselves!

I think it is a question that we should consider. Maybe that way we will look after our "charges" better.

For me, I think that you have to make the decision that you are going to keep your fish in a restricted environment and then provide the best care you can, but we should never lose sight of the argument, should we be doing this? Is just accepting the dreadful, inexcusable way the human race destroys other forms of life okay, i.e. saying well if I don't keep this fish it will die out - should I be doing more to ensure that it doesn't die out?

I have made the decision that I enjoy having the fish, I can only hope that I am doing the right thing. Recently, when pleading for metro from a Vet when he asked me "do you get pleasure from keeping these fish?" I tried to think further than just my own pleasure!

One of the issues for me is keeping fish in a BB tank with nothing to do, I know I would go mad, I know in the case of the most wonderful quarterhorse that we have, the previous owners keeping her in a confined space for her early life resulted in a vice of "windsucking", putting her into a more natural environment helped, did not cure, this vice. It certainly told me that she was
not happy in her early life. Was the right thing done by this horse? I don't know if I have the answer to this question, I certainly wouldn't presume that I know all!

For me, again, I don't know if I am right or not, but I can only hope that
providing my fish with a stimulating environment that they can explore, hunt their food through plants, driftwood, etc. where they are so different to the fish kept in a BB tank just looking at each other, etc. is a good thing.

Sure, in nature, dog eats dog, does that mean that as the human race, supposedly so much superior to the "animal" world, that we have not been able to raise ourselves above this, and display empathy is a positive trait??

Just my thoughts on this matter

[Tony_S]

I was saddened (but not surprised) to see many of the ridiculing replies to this question. I think that many of the replies indicate a lack of empathy for anyone or anything else other than yourself, and displays the reason the human race engages in so many wars! Too many of the replies show that we are simply incapable of putting ourselves in the position of the "victim/"minority". Frankly, I think you should be ashamed of yourselves!

How in the world you relate keeping a fish in a glass box, or killing worms, to war is completely and utterly beyond me.....Make the connection with "lack of empathy" if you like, its a ridiculous comparison. Mindsets such as yours, and the comparisons that you've made, quite 'frankly'...scare the hell out of me.



I think it is a question that we should consider. Maybe that way we will look after our "charges" better.

For me, I think that you have to make the decision that you are going to keep your fish in a restricted environment and then provide the best care you can, but we should never lose sight of the argument, should we be doing this? Is just accepting the dreadful, inexcusable way the human race destroys other forms of life okay, i.e. saying well if I don't keep this fish it will die out - should I be doing more to ensure that it doesn't die out?

Stop and think for a split second....where are you right now, and why are you here? Simply discus is a website designed SPECIFIALLY for us all to have the ability to "look after our charges better"!! To such a degree that I'm able to say that MANY of the keepers on this site take better care of their tropical fish, than they do their own children!
How many 'parents' do you know that belong to websites dedicated to keeping their children as healthy and 'happy' as a tropical fish? IE. the child's environmental conditions in regard to pollution/cleanliness....proper dietary needs, right down to correct protein and fat content....suitable and appropriate association with playmates.....future well being and compatibility of mates????
I would venture to say...VERY FEW, TO NONE!




I have made the decision that I enjoy having the fish, I can only hope that I am doing the right thing. Recently, when pleading for metro from a Vet when he asked me "do you get pleasure from keeping these fish?" I tried to think further than just my own pleasure!

Maybe you need to move on to another hobby if that bothers you to such a degree.....there is NO plausible reason or justification for us keeping discus in a glass box other than for our own pleasure.




One of the issues for me is keeping fish in a BB tank with nothing to do, I know I would go mad, I know in the case of the most wonderful quarterhorse that we have, the previous owners keeping her in a confined space for her early life resulted in a vice of "windsucking", putting her into a more natural environment helped, did not cure, this vice. It certainly told me that she was
not happy in her early life. Was the right thing done by this horse? I don't know if I have the answer to this question, I certainly wouldn't presume that I know all!

For me, again, I don't know if I am right or not, but I can only hope that
providing my fish with a stimulating environment that they can explore, hunt their food through plants, driftwood, etc. where they are so different to the fish kept in a BB tank just looking at each other, etc. is a good thing.

Sure, in nature, dog eats dog, does that mean that as the human race, supposedly so much superior to the "animal" world, that we have not been able to raise ourselves above this, and display empathy is a positive trait??

Just my thoughts on this matter

The rest of you're argument stems from your ability to twist and alter the scientific fact that a fish doesn't and CANT feel human emotion...PERIOD!


I keep tropical fish and discus specifically, with the 'moral' intent of keeping them as healthy and content as is humanly possible....to such a degree that they show vibrant colors, healthy association and contentedness to the degree that the fish will be eager to reproduce given the opportunity.....am I ashamed of that??

I think not....

Tony

you don't eat Tofu... do you??:confused:

[Squiggy]

lesley...my response was intended entirely to be comedic. That said, there is a tremendous difference between your warm blooded example and cold blooded fish or reptiles. It is called long-term memory. Cold blooded animals are incapable of it. There are legitimate levels of empathy that can be applied to the different levels of lifeforms. Even Nature recognizes this...Thats why discus multiply by hundreds at a time and much more frequently than humans.

Interesting how that food chain works like that...;)

[Timbo]

Leslie, this subject has been beat to death on this forum previously. I suspect thats why the replies are of the nature they are.


keeping fish in a BB tank with nothing to do, I know I would go mad
what you are describing is known as anthromorphization.

[Tony_S]

Leslie, this subject has been beat to death on this forum previously.

Not true Tim...its been beaten and beaten and beaten...and then beaten some more...

But it just wont die...It's just like Squiggy, it only smells that way!:crazy:

Tony;)

[Kenny's Discus]

I'm able to say that MANY of the keepers on this site take better care of their tropical fish, than they do their own children!


Tony, I'm sure my wife will definitely agree with you 100% on that one.:D Seriously I got those comments from her on a daily basis!

Kenny
(I'm still on at 5am in the morning, does that tell you anything?:o )

[sleonard]

...
Mindsets such as yours, and the comparisons that you've made, quite 'frankly'...scare the hell out of me.

Me too!


...
I would venture to say...VERY FEW, TO NONE!

...
...there is NO plausible reason or justification for us keeping discus in a glass box other than for our own pleasure.

...
I keep tropical fish and discus specifically, with the 'moral' intent of keeping them as healthy and content as is humanly possible....to such a degree that they show vibrant colors, healthy association and contentedness to the degree that the fish will be eager to reproduce given the opportunity.....am I ashamed of that??

I think not....

Tony

you don't eat Tofu... do you??:confused:

Well said!

Scott

[fishball]

lesley...my response was intended entirely to be comedic. That said, there is a tremendous difference between your warm blooded example and cold blooded fish or reptiles. It is called long-term memory. Cold blooded animals are incapable of it. There are legitimate levels of empathy that can be applied to the different levels of lifeforms. Even Nature recognizes this...Thats why discus multiply by hundreds at a time and much more frequently than humans.

Interesting how that food chain works like that...;)

This is slightly off-topic, but cold-blooded animals are capable of long-term memory. A study had shown that the sea mollusk Aplysia, after repeated electrical stimulation, had formed stronger synaptic connections in the brain. Each time, the response to stimuli was progressively longer that could last for days, even weeks; hence long-term memory (Google Eric Kandel, Aplysia)
...whoa.. i actually remember something i learned in school...:D

-jon

[candyl70]

I was saddened (but not surprised) to see many of the ridiculing replies to this question. I think that many of the replies indicate a lack of empathy for anyone or anything else other than yourself, and displays the reason the human race engages in so many wars! Too many of the replies show that we are simply incapable of putting ourselves in the position of the "victim/"minority". Frankly, I think you should be ashamed of yourselves!



WOW..... that is really harsh of you and unnessecery. If others opinions bother you, that is something you should look at... not come to a board and give everyone a lecture about how they should be ashamed of themselves. You keep fish too... don't you think that others here care about their fish??? Why give them all the water changes and food and care that they do if they aren't trying to do the best for them. The fish have each other to stimulate them and their minds. When they are old enough to not need everyday water changes, many do put them in planted and decorated tanks.

I think that your response is a little hypocritical and self-righteous.... just my thoughts here.

[White Worm]

:D Yup, what they said.

[sublevel007]

I told you PETA is monitoring this site. I can't wait to see the protests on CNN or Fox News

[Squiggy]

This is slightly off-topic, but cold-blooded animals are capable of long-term memory. A study had shown that the sea mollusk Aplysia, after repeated electrical stimulation, had formed stronger synaptic connections in the brain. Each time, the response to stimuli was progressively longer that could last for days, even weeks; hence long-term memory (Google Eric Kandel, Aplysia)
...whoa.. i actually remember something i learned in school...:D

-jon


Ahhhh.....

see....I kinda assumed that none of us had any of those electronically altered discus....

my bad...:crazy:

[fishball]

Ahhhh.....

see....I kinda assumed that none of us had any of those electronically altered discus....

my bad...:crazy:

its ok, you also assumed that they didn't have long-term memory. its all good :o

[Squiggy]

its ok, you also assumed that they didn't have long-term memory. its all good :o

well...yeah...

but you were surprised to find out that you had long-term memory....:D


...whoa.. i actually remember something i learned in school...

[jeep]

I think most multi-celled animals have the basic capability of memory for things like pain and fear... except those stupid squirrels I pick off my fence when they keep coming back and eating my tomato's...

[Marinemom]

I don't really understand the argument here. Most if not all of us on this sight really do take better care of our fish, and I don't mean just the discus, all of our fish, than we do ourselves. My fish for example, eat better than I do. If I had such variety and my every need attended to, I think I would be one happy camper.

Marinemom

[fishball]

well...yeah...

but you were surprised to find out that you had long-term memory....:D

Indeed I was, thanks for pointing that out =)

[John_Nicholson]

LOL........this is insane, but it does not really surprise me. As the human race moves further away from agriculture you see more and more people that do not have a clue what animals are really like. They form their opinions based on disney movies and their own un-informed observations. Get a life. We are talking about fish and worms....fish have a brain the size of a pencil eraser and the worms collection of brain cells is smaller then the pencil lead......

-john

p.s. Sorry brew but even you have to admit that I have been good for the past few years.......

[Timbo]

its not really "long term memory". its referred to as a "conditioned response" (to repeated negative/positive stimulus) which is different than utilizing memory

[fishball]

its not really "long term memory". its referred to as a "conditioned response" (to repeated negative/positive stimulus) which is different than utilizing memory

the correct term is actually long term potentiation
its a learned response, sorta like ... memory :D

[White Worm]

LOL........this is insane, but it does not really surprise me. As the human race moves further away from agriculture you see more and more people that do not have a clue what animals are really like. They form their opinions based on disney movies and their own un-informed observations. Get a life. We are talking about fish and worms....fish have a brain the size of a pencil eraser and the worms collection of brain cells is smaller then the pencil lead......

-john

p.s. Sorry brew but even you have to admit that I have been good for the past few years.......
Thats funny, Disney movies! I know, you'd think we were killing bambi or something, lol. Can you imagine if this conversation went back to how culls are treated? Yikes!

[April]

this subject can only get more and more out of control..and sensitive..and too many sides to too many issues. lets face it.
but i think tonys right..we are all here as we all have a deep obsession and love for discus..and we for the most part do our best to see they are cared for . most likely better than some kids ...
theres always some human suffering..and some animal suffering..everywhere with all species.
global warming alone..is scary..
anyone watch that movie with al gore? scary as heck..id say if theres one main issue in the world to be concerned about..its global warming . now get out of your suv..and get walking!!. lol. but it did show how some animals are endangered even just because timing is off with the seasons..some bugs arent available at the right time for some birds..who depend on them for their breeding season etc etc.
also..i do know there are some tropical fish who are no longer in their natural environment..as they have gone extinct there..but they are being kept going by some avid ornamental fishkeepers and hobbyists. so they are alive and well in peoples tanks..and breeding.
just keep in mind..if this thread gets heated or out of control..it will have to be locked.
April..whos dying to lock a thread. : )
oh..and john..your right you've been the perfect angel for quite some time now. : )

[White Worm]

Ahhhhhhhhh, we're just havin a little fun. Another thread bites the dust and I dont even think anyone was calling names this time. :(

[Willie]

LOL........this is insane, but it does not really surprise me. As the human race moves further away from agriculture you see more and more people that do not have a clue what animals are really like. They form their opinions based on disney movies and their own un-informed observations. Get a life. We are talking about fish and worms....fish have a brain the size of a pencil eraser and the worms collection of brain cells is smaller then the pencil lead......

What's the point of being on top of the evolutionary ladder if you can't create misery and mayhem for your own amusement?

W :angel:

[April]

its not locked yet..only if it gets outa hand. just a warning. : )

[Marinemom]

I don't see this getting out of hand yet. I think the people on this forum can handle this.

Marinemom

[Dissident]

I always have to snicker when I see the 'moral values' threads on these and other forums. Honestly, with all the other more detrimental things that we do from day to day that irreparably damage the environment and contribute to the suffering of people all around the world; why should keeping fish even be on the radar?

If you feel that bad I suggest giving all your money to starving 3rd world countries (it immoral to keep it for yourself) and stop driving petro-based autos. Then come to me about the morality of keeping animals in captivity.

If you feel keeping fish is a morally ‘loaded’ issue for you, I suggest you straighten out your priorities and world view and determine what is really important on your moral compass. If after all that is done you are still concerned with the moral implications this hobby has for you I suggest you take your concerns somewhere else because you will get little sympathy here.

[Marinemom]

Dissident-

Well said.

Marinemom

[swinters66]

WoW...this was some thread. Here's my opinions anyway....

Do you think it's right for us to keep fish in tanks? Sure.
No one ask how the fish feel about it. Cause they cant answer us.
Then there's the worms we feed them, do we have the right to kill the worms. I dont think the worms comprehend any of that.

If you want to keep discus, or any fish...then know you are taking care of them and keeping them alive and healthy. I really don't think they realize or know that they are living in a "glass box". It's the only way of life they've ever known anyway. Good water quality and food...and they are happy little swimmers!! If worms or other live food bother you...there's always color bits or Hikari discus food.

[Tony_S]

I have been good for the past few years.......


April..whos dying to lock a thread.


:confused: :confused: Who the hell ARE YOU PEOPLE!!??:confused: :confused: AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE WITH JOHN AND APRIL!!?? :shocked2:

Tony:confused:

[Kindredspirit]

Well I am not sure that Miss April has ever locked a thread Tony! Wld be the first for her;)


The Power Of It All, eh? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_1_35.gif

[Discus_KC]

Just thinking

Do you think it's right for us to keep fish in tanks?
No one ask how the fish feel about it.
Then there's the worms we feed them, do we have the right to kill the worms.


No mention of discus in the thread so maybe it should have been moved to another area instead of general. No name by the poster and just a statement made. Maybe it would have set a better tone at the start of the thread.

[Kindredspirit]

No mention of discus in the thread so maybe it should have been moved to another area instead of general.

Very true Jack ~ April!! Ya can MOVE it;)





No name by the poster and just a statement made. Maybe it would have set a better tone at the start of the thread.


Ever wonder about these kinds of threads? Probabably bogus ~ to get people all riled up ~ And if you think about it ...this thread did illicit response from all kinds of people who were annoyed*angry* sympathetic*confused....lol!!

The poster is laughing all the way to the next site;) !!

I wonder....as they at times never return.....just watch:alien:


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[AmberC]

Animals are opportunistic creatures.. they just go with the flow of life. The life they know.. is living in our tanks. I can say that my fish are happy. I take dang good care of them. The same with my dog, my guinea pig and my two cockatiels. I research out the best foods and I spend the money to get them that food and the vet bills.. dont get me started! I spent over 200 dollars in vet bills for a 20 dollar guinea pig when he got mites!!!! (These mites are species only and the guinea pigs are carriers of them and they can break out whenever really, just like some parasites on fish)

My guys all get tons of loving every day, good foods, clean cages and TONS of time out of their cages. I dont think my fish would be too happy with out of tank time but I DO handfeed and interact with them as well! Just the other week my angel told me she didn't like my freckle and tried to remove it for me! Shoot.. I buy salmon FOR MY DOG ONLY!!! Its cooked up on the grill on nights we have steak.

Seriously.. tell me my fur/fin and feathered babies are not as happy as my children. I dare you! lol

Amber

[pcsb23]

Seriously.. tell me my fur/fin and feathered babies are not as happy as my children. I dare you! lol
ok, your fur/fin and feathered babies are not as happy as your children!

Never could resist a dare:bandana:

Seriously though, this thread may or may not be a wind-up, the questions have been asked before on this and other forums. It always gets people going, but provided this one doesn't get out of hand then April won't have to close it.;)

For what its worth my thoughts on this are that if you worry about the morality of keeping fish and all that's associated with it then don't keep fish.

[Marinemom]

Very good Amber. That's exactly how I feel about all of the animals I take care of. That includes my dog, my cat, my bird, and all my fish in all of my aquariums. They have all the food and attention that they could possibly want and need. I tend to everything for them as I'm sure the people on this site do for all of the animals in thier care.

Marinemom

[Squiggy]

I wonder....as they at times never return.....just watch:alien:




could we leave my personal life out of this? :mad:
















oops....typed that out loud....didn't I......:crazy:

[Kindredspirit]

I thought you were dead Joe? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_6_25.gif



You always make me smile ~



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_10.gif

[April]

not to worry tony...im still the same ole april...just flexing my mod muscles is all..lol. yeah i havent locked a thread..im the good cop .. .lol. just threatening..makes me sound tough.. grrrrr....

[Tony_S]

not to worry tony...im still the same ole april...just flexing my mod muscles is all..lol. yeah i havent locked a thread..im the good cop .. .lol. just threatening..makes me sound tough.. grrrrr....

I know it Prilly....probably better than anyone here. ;)

Tony

[azzndude2005]

Well, I wasn't expecting all this reply. And I didn't want to argue with anyone either. This was just my inner conflicts. Yes I do have Discus and I do feed them worms, but I'm thinking about giving them away now.

Here's a quote that got me thinking.


Why do Buddhists advocate vegetarianism? The main reason is "mercy", and because we "cannot bear to eat the flesh of living creatures." And our belief in karma tells us that we must eventually suffer the consequences of our evil actions. A Buddhist sutra says: "The bodhisattva fears the original action; the myriad of living creatures fear the consequences." This means that the bodhisattva knows the seriousness of the consequences and does not do evil things; neither does he think about the causes of bad consequences.


I'm not vegetarian or vegan if you're wondering. I'm just trying to understand the world. It seems impossible to not kill anything though. You kill germs when you wash your hands, but if you don't kill them they can kill you. What is the right path?

[White Worm]

Got pics? Do you ship?

[Dissident]

Well, I wasn't expecting all this reply. And I didn't want to argue with anyone either. This was just my inner conflicts. Yes I do have Discus and I do feed them worms, but I'm thinking about giving them away now.

I'm not vegetarian or vegan if you're wondering. I'm just trying to understand the world. It seems impossible to not kill anything though. You kill germs when you wash your hands, but if you don't kill them they can kill you. What is the right path?
Wow is this not the right forum for discussing eastern philosophy.

Not that people here don’t respect beliefs of other cultures, but I doubt that anyone here would be qualified to remotely give you and advise on the matter. More so, if you have to ask a bunch of strangers for moral guidance I feel you have a long road of self-discovery and inner growth before you decide to adhere to a strict moral code that will make life more challenging that it already is.

If you are trying to understand the world, good luck. Philosophers have been trying to do that for as long as the conscious mind has existed. There are thousands of religions that claim to have the answer for you, there are just as many Eastern & Western Philosophies that claim to have the answer for you too. No one can say which one is right.

If you feel that Buddhism is the correct answer for you then by all means stop eating meat, meditate, don’t step on an ant, and follow their rules. Don’t just do it because you are told to, do it because you have the capacity for critical thinking and not just another mindless person out there who needs these answers handed to them by someone as qualified as yourself to answer them.

[Tony_S]

I'd make a LOUSY Buddhist....I get far to much pleasure from killing other germs, bugs, fish and mammals of ALL shapes and sizes, for reasons ranging from....Their nasty....they bother me.....and they taste good!:D


Box of .270 cal rifle shells...24.99
licence fee's...55.00
tank of gas....friggin outrageous!

The RUSH I get when I pull the trigger on a 180 class B&C Mule Deer Buck??

PRICELESS!!

Tony:D

PS...you've come to the wrong place for spiritual guidance. ;)

[Timbo]

i am ate a cheezeburger today; it was a good day

[Tony_S]

i am ate a cheezeburger today; it was a good day

burgurs is nice.....wit matos.....i lick the souse they put on em...:crazy:

[Dissident]

Better with bacon. mmmmmmmmmmm bacon.....

[1977]

Wow, this is really deep for a discus forum but I have to put my 2 cents in. What the world thinks is irrelevent because most of the world is uneducated, ignorant, premitive, scared, and desperate for someone to tell them what to do, they are called sheeple. I don't care to know the answers to all questions or other peoples opinions about how best to run my life. I just have faith in a higher power and if you do more good then bad while your here then there will be a happy ending. I believe in freedom and the U.S. Constitution and frankly the majority of the world sickens me with their constant hypocrisy!

[John_Nicholson]

Vegans kill just as many creatures as the rest of us they are just different ones. Animal populations are not threadened by sport hunting or butchering of them. They usually become threadened because of loss of habitat.....You know clearing the wildereness for farms and ranches. Now don't get me wrong I raise and eat cows on a daily basis. i just wanted to point out that everyone has an affect on the enviroment/animal populations and very, very seldom is it good.

-john

P.S. And Tony I am still the same .......just playing nice....LOL



Well, I wasn't expecting all this reply. And I didn't want to argue with anyone either. This was just my inner conflicts. Yes I do have Discus and I do feed them worms, but I'm thinking about giving them away now.

Here's a quote that got me thinking.




I'm not vegetarian or vegan if you're wondering. I'm just trying to understand the world. It seems impossible to not kill anything though. You kill germs when you wash your hands, but if you don't kill them they can kill you. What is the right path?

[White Worm]

Thats friggin hilarious. Look out!! Timbo + Tony = TNT!:laugh: :laugh:
Sheeples...:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Only here can a thread solicite 70+ responses. Pretty entertaining! This is the most activity any thread has seen in a while, lol.
What I want to know is..........why dont sheep shrink when it rains?

[White Worm]

Well, I wasn't expecting all this reply. And I didn't want to argue with anyone either. This was just my inner conflicts. Yes I do have Discus and I do feed them worms, but I'm thinking about giving them away now.

Here's a quote that got me thinking.




I'm not vegetarian or vegan if you're wondering. I'm just trying to understand the world. It seems impossible to not kill anything though. You kill germs when you wash your hands, but if you don't kill them they can kill you. What is the right path?

Azz....the world sucks, more in some places than others.....
If it didnt......we'd all fall off :D :D

[Timbo]

What I want to know is..........why dont sheep shrink when it rains?

and do blind people believe in love at first sight?
and what was the best thing before sliced bread?

[Tony_S]

and do blind people believe in love at first sight?
and what was the best thing before sliced bread?


Where does the white go when snow melts?

And one thats ALWAYS bothered me the most...does the water ripple...or bubble when a duck farts? :confused:

Tony

[chompy]

And one thats ALWAYS bothered me the most...does the water ripple...or bubble when a duck farts? :confused:

Tony

Deeeeeeeeep Thoughts... by Tony S

[swinters66]

**Yes I do have Discus and I do feed them worms, but I'm thinking about giving them away now.**

Are you giving your discus away because of the worm feeding or because you dont agree anymore with keeping fish or any animals as pets??

I'd like to know if Dolphins sleep.

[AmberC]

LMAO! OMG! This thread is crazy hilarious.

Amber

[Timbo]

If you saw an endangered animal eating an endangered plant...what would you do?

[Dissident]

If you saw an endangered animal eating an endangered plant...what would you do?

Have a salad and fire up the grill :p

[Kenny's Discus]

What if I want to cull your avatar Timbo...would that be a righteous thing to do?:D

Kenny

[tcfish]

Hmmm this thread got me thinking---"I will set my Discus spirits free,no more in a glass tank will they be,I will fry them up in heavens batter,hear the grease in the pan as it starts to splatter,so keeping them in a tank will no longer matter, and I will be a helluva lot fatter,so now I set there spirits free,there spirits are inside of me,now there free of pain and germs,only problem now is I want to eat some worms !!!!"

[Kenny's Discus]

you're good tcfish...you're good!:D

Kenny

[White Worm]

Have a salad and fire up the grill :p
I'll bring the blue cheese and BBQ sauce!

[lhforbes12]

and do blind people believe in love at first sight?
and what was the best thing before sliced bread?

I belive they believe in "love at first grope"
There was something before sliced bread?

[lhforbes12]

What if I want to cull your avatar Timbo...would that be a righteous thing to do?:D

Kenny

Kenny,
PLEASE do!

[Timbo]

you guys wanna cull WhoUcallinStunted???!!11??

oh you heartless ******! you guys are the type that would stomp on a spider, or flatten a mosquito or swat a housefly or eat beef I bet!

[Kenny's Discus]

you guys wanna cull WhoUcallinStunted???!!11??

oh you heartless *****! you guys are the type that would stomp on a spider, or flatten a mosquito or swat a housefly or eat beef I bet!

:D :D :D :D :D

Kenny

[AmberC]

Hmmm this thread got me thinking---"I will set my Discus spirits free,no more in a glass tank will they be,I will fry them up in heavens batter,hear the grease in the pan as it starts to splatter,so keeping them in a tank will no longer matter, and I will be a helluva lot fatter,so now I set there spirits free,there spirits are inside of me,now there free of pain and germs,only problem now is I want to eat some worms !!!!"

LMAO!

Amber

[azzndude2005]

**Yes I do have Discus and I do feed them worms, but I'm thinking about giving them away now.**

Are you giving your discus away because of the worm feeding or because you dont agree anymore with keeping fish or any animals as pets??

I'd like to know if Dolphins sleep.

I don't want to be responsible for the discus life or the worm. I haven't figure out what I'm going to do. I'm not a very religious person, just a curious one.

Dolphins and whales sleep with one eye open. Half of their brain are active to allow themselves come up for air.

[lesley]

After reading all the replies, I still think that azzndude2005;s "dilemna" should be considered. And no, I am not removed from agriculture, and no I do not attribute human emotion to my animals. I closely observe my animals, take pleasure in seeing them contented and healthy. My cattle often top the prices in local markets when I sell them because I don't overstock and take good care of my land and animals. Our dogs, who live in the house with us, are not treated as humans, we just love them for what they are, but do demand obedience in areas such as not leaving our property (we just have for the main three strand barbed wire around our hobby farm) coming when called and herding animals when needed but stopping also when needed. So, while they are undoubtedly very "spoilt", they are not thought of as human, and have to fit into the human life around them. I am well aware that when I chastise a dog, they are reading that I am angry and reacting to the actual anger, not necessarily attributing my anger to an event, feeling "guilty" etc. I have observed many types of animals demonstrating boredom, I don't know whether or not fish experience this. Just because I don't know doesn't mean that they don't!! Not so long ago, everyone considered that birds were very "dumb". Then a raven was observed demonstrated tool building abilities. That doesn't make a raven human, but probably does show that the more the human race learns, the less the human race actually knows!

I probably didn't put it very well, had had a frustrating day at work, imbibed in one too many glass of wine! but the basic idea for me is still there, we should show empathy for our charges, and we should not be scorning someone who is questioning what is commonly done. Just because lots of other people do something, does not mean it is good or the best way.

Definitely my last post on the subject, at the very least it has made you all think.

[Timbo]

at the very least it has made you all think.

that would be nice change for many of us, but as stated before leslie...this subject is brought up every couple months and its been beaten to death. and i havent seen any new insights in this thread that havent been brought up dozens of times before. its one of those recurring things that folks that are relatively new to Simply often bring up. sit tight leslie, it will come up again (and again, and again...) and you can write these replies instead of me :)

[Timbo]

an example:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//showthread.php?t=46316&highlight=glass+cubes