water changes

[CoKen]

hi guys

i understand that more water changes are good to discuses, because they like fresh and clean water.

problem problem problem.....

whenever i do my 25% water change, after i refill the over-night aged and pre-heated water to the tank, they all keep still for hours, don't know why? they are not breathing fast, because their gills do not appear to be move fast. by the way, the new water is adjusted to similar paramater as the tank, such as, same PH, same temperature, chlorine removed, ammonia is 0.25, but the tank is zero.

would this 0.25 ammonia make them still??? i added the ammonia reduction solution to the ageing barrel, but it still exist, will it be ammonium? the local fish store told me that ammonium is not harmful to the fish, is this true?

your opinion is welcome and appreciated!


rgds
Ken

[Kindredspirit]

Hey Ken ~

I do not believe you shld have any ammonina ~ I do not ~ as far as wc I have one tank that still freaks out after a year of daily changes!!

Now ya wld think they wld after a year....of having something that occurs on a daily basis down....nope! Takes them a while to enjoy the new water~

I am not sure re your aging barrel ~ wait for someone more experienced to pop along!

hth~

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_11.gif

[Graham]

Ken Ammonium NH4 is not toxic to fish and with a pH of about 7.0 or lower all ammonia exist as ammonium.

ammonia reduction solution ......?? what are you using?? Ammonia binders only lock up the ammonia but it is still readable with a salicylate test kit. A nesslers style test will read the bound ammonia wrong.

[swinters66]

This is something Ive noticed with mine...they hide when I have the siphon in the tank...ok I can see why...its big and moving around...so I expect them to hide. Now, when I start adding new, fresh, treated water...they will swim under the flow of water, over and over....I guess they like the new water. Its cute. But they dont go still and stay hidden anymore.

[Marinemom]

When I do my water changes, my discus like to just hang out where I have the siphon and they don't want to move. They refuse to get out of the way. Makes it a little difficult to see if they are in the way. At least they are not running away from me. Rather they just want to see whart I am up to.

Diane

[AADiscus]

Try turning the lights off on your tank after you do your wc. This will normally get them moving around more.

[Carol_Roberts]

Could you have chorlamines in your water rather than just chlorine? If so, you may need a different product to neutralize the chloramine. You probably don't need to adjust the pH if you are only doing a 25% WC. The pH should stabilize in your storage tank if you are aerating (circulating) it.

[Kindredspirit]

Try turning the lights off on your tank after you do your wc. This will normally get them moving around more.


Really Angela? Gosh I think mine may just go to sleep!

Marie ~ :bandana:

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I dont think ive heard of ammonia in tap water before .... thats a new one. :confused:

Mine will kinda hover a bit after a WC but within 15 - 30 minutes they are ready to chow down and moving all over begging for food. I always feed them FBW or CBW after a WC so they know something good is coming.

When im vaccuming ......... they wont get out of the way .... lol. I have to push them out of the way most of the time ... either with the tube or my hand. My wife thinks im nutz cause im always talking to them and telling them to get out of the way ..... lol. :argue:

I have to trick themn sometimes by moving the tube to one side and when they come over ... i hurry up and vac the other side .... lol ....... but they come a running anyway before im done. :D

[sleonard]

That's why Carol asked if the water is treated with chloramines rather than chlorine. Chloramine is chlorine + ammonia and some of the de-chlor products will just break the chlorine + ammonia bond and eat only the resulting chlorine leaving ammonia in your water.

Scott

[Timbo]

some of the de-chlor products will just break the chlorine + ammonia bond and eat only the resulting chlorine leaving ammonia in your water.

Scottyes, but its important to note its unlike regular ammonia and relatively non-toxic.

[Graham]

yes, but its important to note its unlike regular ammonia and relatively non-toxic.

Sorry Tim but the ammonia released is exactly like any NH3...whether it stays toxic or not all dep[ends on the pH...higher ph's like in the 7.4 and above range will make the ammonia toxic. With pH below that then it picks up an extra hydrogen ion and becomes NH4...the more NH4 the more non-toxic it becomes. Fish give off NH3...plants like NH4

Generally speaking the amount of ammonia released from chloramines on small ...10% >15% water changes will not hurt the fish. It's easily oxidized ny the nitrifiers. Large water changes are another story.

Now having said all that...if you live in a rural area and on a well, it's not unusual to find high levels of nitrate and ammonia. Ammonia levels in the 3ppm range have been recorded coming out right out of the tap.


G

[Alight]

Actually, if the water treatment agent broke the chloramine bond, it very likely has an ammonia reducing agent which will convert the ammonia to ammonium regardless of the pH. Most ammonia test kits will still read the ammonium as if it was ammonia.

It is very common to get an ammonia/ammonium reading of 0.25 when chloramine is present and a chloramine treatment agent is added.

The ammonium created will also be converted to nitrate by the biofilter within 24 hours. In either case, the ammonium created is harmless. Which is what Timbo was refering to.

[Graham]

Actually, if the water treatment agent broke the chloramine bond, it very likely has an ammonia reducing agent which will convert the ammonia to ammonium regardless of the pH. Most ammonia test kits will still read the ammonium as if it was ammonia.


Alight, that would only be when products like Amquel, Ammo Loc or Prime are being used. They bind up the ammonia along with the chlorine. If a basic de-chlor product, that is just sodium thiosulfate,something like Stress Coat is being used then the chlorine/ammonia bond is broken and the chlorine is bound up but the ammonia/NH3 is left on it own...The pH will decide wether it stays as NH3 or ionized to NH4

[Elcid]

Hey Guyz:

Great followups to the original question. Unfortunately there could be many things in your water other than water. Here's what's in mine. Check with ur water company. Personally I don't like using dechlorinator, I prefer to aerate!

take care,
Sandeep

[Elcid]

But this is what worries me the most:

Annual Water System Flushing Program
New Jersey American Water conducts its annual water main flushing program throughout the spring. We advertise in your local paper when we are flushing in your community.

The flushing program is conducted annually and involves simultaneously opening fire hydrants in a specific geographic area to create increased water flows. These increased water flows clean the distribution system of any mineral deposits and sediment that may have built up in the water mains over time.

During flushing, customers may notice slight discoloration of their water. If this occurs, they are advised to allow their water to run a few minutes in order to clear up any discoloration. Customers are encouraged to check for discolored water before doing laundry or washing dishes.

If customers have questions or concerns regarding the flushing program they should contact New American Water's Customer Service Center, available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, at 1-800-NJ-AM WTR (1-800-652-6987).

[White Worm]

Thats a pretty detailed water report. Not sure I want to know whats in my water (to that extent)....I may never want to drink it again or put my fish in it, lol. My fish might be swimming in milk in the future (1%). Anyone try that before? It supposedly does a body good.

[Elcid]

Thats a pretty detailed water report. Not sure I want to know whats in my water (to that extent)....I may never want to drink it again or put my fish in it, lol. My fish might be swimming in milk in the future (1%). Anyone try that before? It supposedly does a body good.


Hey Mike:

IF you think the water's bad check out the air report ;) Seriously though and I'm speaking from direct experience. Beware when ur water company is cleaning their pipes that's when I lost all my discus the last go around!

HTH,
Sandeep