Why Is He Doing This? (also is this HITH)

[Kindredspirit]

Hey Guys I was shooting pics of my bss for another topic....might as well cover it here as it cld be related ~

Could this be HITH? Also as you can see he/she plants himself in this corner...literally nose in the seams of the tank....and he changes colors too ~

Eats great nothing dif there .......just started feeding cbw yesterday and today ~ when he swims around he is an awesome blue! This fish has me confused totally ~

Thoughts appreciated ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_14_27.gif

[Ryan]

Hmmm, I'm not sure about the really tiny spots, but the noticable one looks like a nostril. Of course, I could be wrong. I've never dealt much with HITH so I'll let someone with more experience answer you for sure. Mine's just a guess.

[TRAKURT]

Looks like it to me.

[AmberC]

It looks like it is to me too Marie, but its not bad at all. They are very small spots so its just a start to it. I know you feed those guys well so its probably just water irritants. I know you have more stuff in the tanks now so I am assuming its that. I had a constant struggle with HITH popping up, remember? When I replanted the tank. I think its common to have some holes when the tank is not BB. Yours is not bad at all and I would suggest just UBER cleaning the tank the next few days. Maybe dont feed a couple days and super clean it ya know?

[Kindredspirit]

the noticable one looks like a nostril for sure


I thought that too Ryan ~ I don't know about the smaller ones either ~


Thanks Ryan ~

Amber ....thanks woman!

Trakurt ~ thank you!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_1_18.gif

[Kindredspirit]

Hey Guys ~ Check out this picture of my bss please ~ he is literally planted his/her nose in this corner ~ eats fine....swims some ~ and then goes right back there ~ changes color to as you can see ~ esp when a certain discus pops over there ~

I also took a thread on this guy and possible HITH ~ cld the two be related? Sometimes I think his hormones are kicking in....!

Any thoughts?


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Its fins look a lil clamped and looks a lil dark so there may be something going on but i'll leave any treatment prescibing (if any) to the pros.

See i told you, you should have QT'd that frog :D

[Tony_S]

No question it's the onset of HITH, but it's pretty minor from what I can see.

The fact that you said he spends a good amount of time dark and facing the back of the tank makes me raise an eyebrow though...that in combination with the HITH say you should keep a very close eye on him for now.

At this stage all I would personaly do (besides getting rid of all that nasty gravel;) ) is keep the water super clean, and try and improve the diet, wich your doing already with the CBW.

If he doesn't show improvement in the next while you might want to think about a Metro treatment.

Tony

[pcsb23]

Not 100% certain but looks like the start of it. If it were me I would remove the fish onto a wet towel and apply a little hydrogen peroxide (3% strength) with a cotton bud directly onto the little holes you can see. It will make the fish jump a little when applied. Upping the water changes, either amount or frequency may help as well as making sure the tank is as clean as possible. Maybe add some vitamins into the food too. I disagree with not feeding at this time, keep the feedings going, just don't leave any unteaten food in the tank.

I would not treat with anything else just yet, HITH is rarely fatal, usually secondary infections get to the fish. Just keep a close watch on it and if it gets worse then it will be time to consider next steps.

hth,

[marilyn1998]

Looks to me also like he is being irritated some. I agree with Paul.

Just another thought.....

my blue fish ALWAYS seem to be the first to show me there is something starting to go on in my tank. Like the canaries in the mines.

My blues get VERY DARK and colorful when they are getting to the spawning point. Could be the color fluctuation you are seeing as well as the start of HITH.

PS> my blue has those SAME holes, I am treating him as a king. He is getting all the good foods first and his own lil tank right now. :p

[marilyn1998]

Ahh, I just replied to the other post! HE is definitely showing signs of maturity. My blues get SOOOO dark when they are in the mood!! Also, my blue female would get really slimy then too. It made my glass very grey and slimy. I think he is feeling his oats, and also is showing some signs of tension there, too.


Clean Water. Good Food. Clean Water. Good Food. Clean Water. Good Food.

[lhforbes12]

I agree with most of what Tony and Paul said, I would certainly remove the substrate and I would up the wc's, and add vitamins to its food. I personally would have a little problem with the H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) only because I do use it and know what damage it can do if not used wisely. I'm not saying Paul is wrong, just that I personally wouild be a bit leery of using it directly on a fish.

[lhforbes12]

Marie,
Does the "other" fish happen to be the PB that is near it in the picture? It actually looks fine to me except for the slight fin clamping, and that may be only because the PB is near it.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Marie,
That behavior is typical of a stressed discus...The stress can be from many things. Often its an indication of the fish fighting off an infection from a parasite...If you mentioned that the fish had a loss of appetite or white feces I would say...hexamita..

at this point I would say....

Place the fish in its own tank for further observation.. and to treat if necessary..

Hth,
al

ps..Marie...I merged the thread in general"whats this " and this thread since they are so closely related.

[Kindredspirit]

Thanks Guys ~ I appreciate all the replies ~ I think that this cld have happened when I put him in the other tank with the big boys for a few weeks and he was so bullied....I couldnt take it so I put him back in his original tank....

He does not face the back of the tank at all ~ it is the front:) TONY!:D and he only gets dark when this one particular fish gets near....

Al ~ no white pooh at all and he eats fine! Sorry about the two threads Al~

Larry ~ this tank is 100% cleaned along with the gravel every other day ~ without fail ~ the gravel is not very deep....Yes when the PB comes near him he gets darker...

Marilyn ~ thank you! I think all of them are getting hormonal:D


So ~ it is the onset of HITH.....I am very sad ~ Never thought it wld happen to me....I didnt know that it cld be caused from stress....makes sense tho ~ he was so very stressed when I moved him....

I wish I never did:(


Marie ~


ps....You do not like my gravel Tony?....My night is toast:(

[TRAKURT]

Hole in the head is no big deal. Dont get upset it will be fine:)

[Kindredspirit]

Thanks Kurt! I was thinking I wld never have seen it had it not been for the zoom button on my camera! You can not see it with the naked eye at all:p


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[Andrew Soh]

Hi Marie,

The 43kb photo does have an infestation and that is on the body.....a patch of white that may indicate costia infestation. As to the face, it is the nostril and I don't think it is HITH nor starting of one.

As for the last photo you posted where the blue turquoise is very strong in color..... and from the position he is in, I believe he is stressed and unwell....thus prophylactic treatment is needed for all.

As I have tried in the past to convince you to use PP, you seem to prefer using formalin or other than PP treatments as you mentioned that you have no confident in the application of PP.

So, here again, I still suggest the use of PP to clean up all microorganisms....but it is all up to you, my dear Marie.

Take care,

Andrew:angel:

[Kindredspirit]

Hi Marie,

The 43kb photo does have an infestation and that is on the body.....a patch of white that may indicate costia infestation.

And the Man himself shows up:) Thank You Andrew!

Andrew you are scaring me here ~ I think I have been thru this before ~ I think.... I think....and with all due Respect ....cld it be the photo? I am looking at him now and there really isnt a noticeable white patch Andrew....not like on my other tank months ago...When this fish turns sideways and the tank lights hit it ~ you can see what you are talking about on both sides....Does this shed any light on your opinion?




As to the face, it is the nostril and I don't think it is HITH nor starting of one.

I see the nostil as well but right above that it wld appear that there are a few little holes? Or not ~



As for the last photo you posted where the blue turquoise is very strong in color..... and from the position he is in, I believe he is stressed and unwell....thus prophylactic treatment is needed for all.

Really? He isnt in this corner a lot ~ and he can not be too 'unwell' Andrew since he is swimming and eating ~ a lot ~ But I will certainly consider your advice, Sir ~ make no mistake about that~





As I have tried in the past to convince you to use PP, you seem to prefer using formalin or other than PP treatments as you mentioned that you have no confident in the application of PP.

So, here again, I still suggest the use of PP to clean up all microorganisms....but it is all up to you, my dear Marie.

Heavens To Besty! You have tried in the past Andrew .....this is true...and I have some too ~ I was instructed recently infact on the use of PP and by one of the best IMO ~

Having said that ~ The stuff scares me ~ I do not think I cld administer it without personal assistance I am afraid ~ Formalin is just not strong enough? I have that as well ~ even here in Cali:p


I need to think ~


Andrew ~ thank you for your input! I always consider your suggestions ~ and consider them very carefully ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[Jeckel]

I don't have a discus in front of me right now, but I think discus have sensory pores on the head as well as the two nostrils. Can any experts on discus anatomy confirm or contradict this? It might be nice to have a "map" showing the number and positions of apertures on a normal discus head. I've thought at times my fish had HITH and then noticed all my fish have the same "holes."

Also, are holes from HITH symmetric or random in position? That is, can't Marie look at (or photograph!) the discus again to determine whether there are equivalent hole(s) on both sides of the head? If the holes are symmetric, I'd think that suggests they are normal, rather than disease-related.

Jerry

[tpl*co]

Marie,

I would agree that it is probably pores instead of HITH. Are the shape or size of the holes changing any? Are they ragged and whitish or smooth and fish colored?

The hanging back and darkening could be a problem or a parasite though. I've had good luck with Jungle Parasite Clear in the past (little pre-measured fizzy tabs).

Tina

[dandestroy]

when I'm not sure with my discus, I look for the same pore to be symetrical on the face, if they are not symetrical on both side, than I get worried.

[Kindredspirit]

I don't have a discus in front of me right now, but I think discus have sensory pores on the head as well as the two nostrils. Can any experts on discus anatomy confirm or contradict this? It might be nice to have a "map" showing the number and positions of apertures on a normal discus head. I've thought at times my fish had HITH and then noticed all my fish have the same "holes."

A "map" showing what you stated wld be very beneficial!



Also, are holes from HITH symmetric or random in position? That is, can't Marie look at (or photograph!) the discus again to determine whether there are equivalent hole(s) on both sides of the head? If the holes are symmetric, I'd think that suggests they are normal, rather than disease-related.Jerry


I did shoot the discus again Jerry ~ left and right and a frontal view...and I do believe you may be on to something! The little holes above the nostril are on both sides! Whatcha think?






Marie,

I would agree that it is probably pores instead of HITH. Are the shape or size of the holes changing any? Are they ragged and whitish or smooth and fish colored?

The hanging back and darkening could be a problem or a parasite though. I've had good luck with Jungle Parasite Clear in the past (little pre-measured fizzy tabs).Tina

Hey Tina! I think they are pores not holes:) I wld never had noticed them if not for that close up I took while he was dark in the corner! He is fine now but he does tend to be protective over this corner and goes up and down the seam a lot:confused:





when I'm not sure with my discus, I look for the same pore to be symetrical on the face, if they are not symetrical on both side, than I get worried.

Exactly! And I knew that ...is it on both sides....I do that with pets, kids..I just forgot in re to my fish:o But I sure thought that was HITH! Thanks Dan!



Thanks Everyone!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[dandestroy]

I do that with pets, kids..I just forgot in re to my fish:o

So if I get this right, if your kids have hole or scratch in their face you are happy as long as they have these hole on both side... :D

[Kindredspirit]

Well I opened that can of worms didnt I? FUNNY Dan!! I meant that just the other day infact my friend had a bump behind his ear and I checked and there was one on the other side too;)


You Nut!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[tpl*co]

Hey Tina! I think they are pores not holes:) I wld never had noticed them if not for that close up I took while he was dark in the corner! He is fine now but he does tend to be protective over this corner and goes up and down the seam a lot:confused:




Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif


Hmmm, is there something in that corner that he/she is staring at? I had my discus in a tank on a wrought iron stand and was scratching my head why they were all swimming at an angle pointing down and was skittish. Well, ends up they were looking through the bottom of the tank and it cleared up when I covered the bottom!

Another thought, could this fish be a female looking for a spot to lay eggs?

Maybe just a tiff from the other fish, or maybe an invitation to the other fish to breed in that spot?

Tina

[Kindredspirit]

Another thought, could this fish be a female looking for a spot to lay eggs?

Maybe just a tiff from the other fish, or maybe an invitation to the other fish to breed in that spot?

Tina


I was leading towards these two scenarios! Hey did you get your stand Tina? Call me ~ I am working tonight tho ~


Marie~ :bandana:

[Alight]

From the new pics, I'd say no problems with HTIH, just nostrils.

I don't see white patches on any of the fish.

The behavior you indicate happens from time to time. Blues get dark when they're intimidated, unhappy, or when they spawn, to attract fry to them.

They get dark and light during the day depending on lighting conditions in the house and tank, too.

Just watch and see what happens over time. I really don't see evidence for lots of parasites. But an onsite observer would be able to tell more. You've had a bunch of experience at this point, so you probably have a good feel for what shape they are in.

[Kindredspirit]

Well said Al ....as usual! I always love to read what you post as it is simple and to the point but addresses every issue:)

IMO ~

The BSS is doing great! Thanks Al!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif