Discus Economics 101...

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,

I get involved in all kinds of crazy hobbys and it always amazes me what a hobby actually costs you when you break it down...


For this Discus Hobby theres the cost of the tanks, heater, filters, the utilities, the foods etc.. and lets not forget the fish.:) Its nuts what everything Costs us.

Aquarium hobbyists are pretty familar with the costs of the hobbys equipment and foods.. New Hobbyists generally run into sticker shock when shopping for discus though...veterans are immune to it or just trained and conditioned, not sure which... I don't bat an eye when someone is selling fish at $$$ dollars... gas goes up at the pump and I blow a gasket!!:(

Economics 101 says supply and demand govern the price of commodity.. Most will agree with that...

Lots of supply...price goes down, lots of demand ..price goes up ... prices go up ...more people sell... supply goes up...price goes down. Pretty straight forward.

Now I look at discus... they pretty much follow the same rules...but within certain confines....But whats the basic starting point? Years ago Discus were expensive because they were hard to breed and hard to find... lots of demand...little supply..

Now adays..Discus are easy to get... Importing them has never been easier...sellers abound.. Forums abound as well to help with teh care,...Commercial Breeders have perfected many aspects of the breeding... so there is in theory an abundance..and yet prices have gone up ..not down. Granted shipping is going up as are utilities...Does that account for it all? Economics 101 says that demand must be keeping pace.... Is It? I'm not sure thats the whole picture. There would have to be a tremendous market demand for discus if thats the case....Think of all the commercial breeders and their huge hatcheries...

One of my hobbies is Reptiles.. Always kills me when a Turtle thats in high demand, is hard to breed,lays only a few eggs, lives 50-100 years costs the same as a Discus that lives a few years, is relatively abundant, and lays hundreds of eggs, breeds easy enough.. doesn't seem fair does it?

So whats the deal here? Why do you all think Discus are as expensive as they are? And if you look at other hobbys, pets etc... Are they worth what we pay in comparsion? Do you think they should be less expensive... Do you think the whole market is over inflated? Is all as it should be?

Just curious what every thinks here. My personal thoughts is that Hobbys don't fit inside the rules of standard supply and demand economics.. Economics are largely based on needs...hobbys are based on wants.... I think theres a separate set of rules that govern these Hobby economics... one where it doesn't really matter what the supply and demand are.. The hobbyist generally accepts a top price first as the perceived norm and compares to that when shopping around... . If it falls in our comfort zone,its in our tanks.

I also think that much of the economics is driven not by the demand for discus in general but by the demand for specific forms..ei spots one year, albinos another, classics another....

any thoughts on this are welcome...just something I was mulling over while taking care of my snakes and Turtles:)

-al

[Greg Richardson]

My personal thoughts is that Hobbys don't fit inside the rules of standard supply and demand economics.. Economics are largely based on needs...hobbys are based on wants.... I think theres a separate set of rules that govern these Hobby economics... one where it doesn't really matter what the supply and demand are.. The hobbyist generally accepts a top price first as the perceived norm and compares to that when shopping around... . If it falls in our comfort zone,its in our tanks.

I agree.
Also if one looks at amount of time, water, food, equipment costs just to maintain after initial outlay it can become very depressing thus the want factor is high not the need factor dictating what is bought.

As a hobbyist I don't keep track. If it was a business I would have to.

As a hobbyist basic economics can not exist because there are intangibles
involved like enjoyment of hobby that can not have a price attached.

Thus, the cost of fish can not be compared to supply and demand either as it is what makes you happy that will allow you to pay just a bit more for a fish that fits your current breeding agenda.

When I do a drywall bid I have every cost involved, labor to materials down to the last piece of sand paper. I know exactly what my profit will be if everything goes right.

If you do this as a hobbyist you will soon find yourself forgetting about the joys turning the burn out factor up a notch or two real quick.

[April]

well..all i know..is the dog prices have exploded lately..and everyone is making "designer dogs" and selling for huge prices. 1200.00 for a mutt!!! the more people are making..the more people are wanting them..and more than ever crosses are available. poochis..1200 labradoodles and goldendoodles 2500. schnoodles , woodles, etc etc etc. id say thats part fashion and fad nothing to do with economics. also people around here have more disposable income ..tons of jobs..every store has a sign now..trucks, billboards..etc. help wanted.
i see and hear alot of people in vancouver looking for discus . i think alot are buying them or trying them.alot of beginners. i think they fall in the pets category..and people pay easier than maybe paying that for necessities.
i went to vancouver island a few weeks ago..and one of our simply members..was selling his pairs for... 1600!! they were not special..just yellowish pigeons etc. he says he gets it. harder to get discus on the island..of course people could go on the ferry and come to vancouver and get some..but maybe not pairs..i told him hes insane..pairs usually go for maybe 350-500 . he had a sale 50-75 percent off. still ridiculous prices.

[Mack]

Al:
You present a very interesting argument about hobbies. Supply and demand are surely the “invisible hand” which supports the pricing structure on discus (as an example), however, a few other econ topics from your 101 class should be included. For example, there are some goods that when the price rises, demand also rises (think of affluent goods like fancy cars or rare champagne). This would be the notion of Giffen goods. This goes against the general supply and demand argument (which you presented) where only shortages create increased prices.

Ok, not sold yet, try thinking about aquarium fish altogether. We breed and raise discus. However we could (and possibly some of us do) raise cories, angels, jewels, etc. There are many other aquarium dwellers that we could base our hobby on, but what do we do? We are keepers of the “king of the aquarium.” Again, we keep these fancy (expensive fish) for several reasons. Why does one buy a Lexus when they could buy a Toyota which is practically the same vehicle? This is the econ 101 notion of “conspicuous consumption;” that “impress your neighbor” feeling. I doubt that this plays a large role in price determination for discus, however it definitely presents an argument.

Lastly, and probably the most importantly, discus prices remain high because of us. The “discriminating buyers” like us who want perfection. Looking back to your econ 101 again, this is the notion of “substitutes.” In our eyes, there is no substitute for the perfect discus (shape, color, eye size, etc.). However, if you want a discus, at a “cheap” price I bet you can find it. These are the notorious breeders that we love to hate on “aquabid” and other various websites. You can always find a football shaped, big-eyed $30 discus on the net. Do we want that? I’d hope not. We want the perfect discus and are not willing to compromise. So what happens- (think about your gasoline argument), we continue to buy more even as the price rises. To most discus nuts, we are not responsive to prices (and later face the consequences from our wives). This is the notion of “elasticites” from your econ 101 class. When the price of “perfect discus” increases (just like the price of unleaded gasoline) we still buy because “life can’t go on for us.” The hobbyist needs/wants the perfect discus no matter what. Likewise, when gas goes up, we complain, but we still buy it. So gasoline, like discus, would be examples of inelastic goods.

In conclusion, I would rethink the supply curve and demand curve you are relating to. I would suggest that the demand curve for the perfect discus is rather vertical, while the supply curve for the perfect discus is relatively flat. Also, the major breeders of high quality discus could seemingly have “market power” (from you econ 101). That they are the ones setting the price and letting us fight over them…or that there is “price leadership” among discus sellers. I believe this to be true, and if you have ever been to an ACA or fish swap, you can see this in action. This occurs when one seller sets a price, and all other sellers follow suit (like GM used to do in the car industry years ago).

My only fear is that one day the sellers of "high-end" discus will figure out our true "willingness-to-pay" for perfect discus!
Joe

[mench]

Himmmm,discus in huge demand....well I must be living in a part of the country that is not keeping up.....the local fish stores don't have many discus,when I try to sell mine to them,they say ,nobody around my area wants them...I have run ads in the local newspaper with prices way lower than the lfs and didn't even get one call.
I would be scared to add up all the costs of my fish hobby over the years,and even more scared if the bride ever found out LOL
Thankfully it is still a hobby and I still enjoy it !!!!
As for discus being so pricey,well if people are willing to pay those high prices,the price will never come down. What would happen if no one bought any new fish for say 6 months or one year,what do ya think would happen to the prices???? I don't think that would ever happen but it sure would affect the price of fish.

Mench

[lhforbes12]

I pretty much disagree with everyone above (gee, what a shock!). Since I am older than most of you, let me relate my reasoning. Back in the early 70's when I was still a young man, Symphysodon aequifascitatus axelrodi cost $5 each for 2 1/2" - 3" fish, these were the least expensive discus. This is right in line with today's prices when inflation is added to the equation. There were back then some rather expensive discus, rare ones cost far in excess of $1000. So to my mind, if anything discus prices have actually come down a bit since then. Mind you in the Bay Area a cardinal was around $1, which is what I can get them for today. The other major difference is aquariums and their equipment is MUCH cheaper now, glass tanks still cost about what they did back then, as do most filters. So to my mind, if anything, the costs of keeping tropical fish has actually dropped drastically.

[Ed13]

Economics 101 says supply and demand govern the price of commodity.. Most will agree with that...

True, in the broadest sense, but there are factors that govern the demand and supply themselves.



Lots of supply...price goes down, lots of demand ..price goes up ... prices go up ...more people sell... supply goes up...price goes down. Pretty straight forward.

-al

Not quite as straightforward as that, there are many factors that influence the the price level Ex inflation or depression in the economy, political aspects, social matters and the cost to make the product itself or import it

Even though I'm way younger than Larry;) , I have to agree with him, the cost of keeping tropical fish today has come down significally! But when talking about discus I feel that the price among other things have a seasonal appeal regarding strains and quality of strains. Keep in mind that breeders have a lot of pairs that don't breed true so the price of a quality Leopard for example increases as the more turks are born from the same spawn and the price of the turks increases as the breeders reduces the numbers of turk pairs since they can sell the one born from crosses and the turks appeal has come down in the advent of the target strain in this case the Leopards. For example the thread about "Your favorite strain" showed that most people that responded like Red turks and Wild Discus, yet most spend a lot $$$$ ON OTHER STRAINS :confused:

There is also the increase of breeders, dealers and hobbyists that play with the demand and supply curve + socioeconomic, political and environmental factors that influence it

[mmorris]

Let's not forget that the supply/demand curve will be substantially different for new tanks and equipment because of the huge, readily-available, second-hand market. New manufacturers must, in a sense, compete with that. The interesting question is, why are run-of-the-mill LFS discus expensive compared with other species? The answer is probably simply supply/demand. Production costs are high, demand is limited at the price suppliers are willing to sell and so supply is limited. It is then channeled into only a few outlets. I'm not convinced that the discus hobby is relatively inelastic except at the very pinnacle.
Mench-I sympathize with your problem. I would love to raise some fry one day but how to find good homes? I raise Blue Gularis and the LFS is happy to have them, one pair at a time! And so I limit output. Keeps price up too. I really don't want to get into shipping. Martha

[brewmaster15]

Any other thoughts here? So Many Discus Keepers so few opinions?:)


Hi Larry,
You mentioned that if you account for Inflation you think that discus are where they should be as compared to back in the 70s? and yet the price of other tropicals like cardinals is still where is was in the 70s? I'm wondering if you remember any other fish species prices from back then?

I think its interesting that a point was made that Keeping fish may have actually gone down....so keeping fish is cheaper now? I'm not sure about that...I look at the price of heaters from LFS and they are outrageous...filters the same... Utilities are up...food is up in cost as well...>>granted alot of these increases is probably related to the more expensive technologies, but I think alot of it is because we want it and will pay to meet our hobby "wants"

Let me reword my question... do you think there are more discus being bred and marketed than their are consumers in demand of them? Do you think that our market is pretty much saturated and theres really not a large demand for discus? Are more and more hobbyists keeping discus?These are all subjective questions and answers.. it not really about answering correctly here..more about perceptions..I think Perceptions play a big role in prices here.

I'm not saying that discus are too expensive for their worth here...Just asking...if thats what others think.... and trying to get a discussion going on why discus are what they are as far as cost.


Hi martha...
The interesting question is, why are run-of-the-mill LFS discus expensive compared with other species? probably because people expect discus to cost that much at LFS and are hence willing to pay it.. and many that are LFS discus customers are usually novices to discus...and so "run-of- the mills" vs High quality is probably not a consideration..
-al

[mench]

Himmmm $5 discus in the 70's...I would have been super happy to pay that...I had discus in 1971 and around here,upstate NY no body had discus except for one guy ..don't know where he got them from but they were pricy,I seem to remember about $15 or so.
I do remember that for that price all ya could get is plain brown fish,and turks or other strains were way out of my range.I did save some money and sent for 4 of Wattleys royal blues around 2 in at $25 each and the bride had a fit,she thought I was nuts to pay that much for 4 fish...and now that I think of it,she still thinks I am nuts ...


Mench

[billeagan]

I pretty much disagree with everyone above (gee, what a shock!). Since I am older than most of you, let me relate my reasoning. Back in the early 70's when I was still a young man, Symphysodon aequifascitatus axelrodi cost $5 each for 2 1/2" - 3" fish, these were the least expensive discus. This is right in line with today's prices when inflation is added to the equation. There were back then some rather expensive discus, rare ones cost far in excess of $1000. So to my mind, if anything discus prices have actually come down a bit since then. Mind you in the Bay Area a cardinal was around $1, which is what I can get them for today. The other major difference is aquariums and their equipment is MUCH cheaper now, glass tanks still cost about what they did back then, as do most filters. So to my mind, if anything, the costs of keeping tropical fish has actually dropped drastically.

Larry,
You're not that old I was born in the 70's =)

As far as cardinals, I sell them for a $1 and I don't make a whole bunch on them the upside is in a box there is supposedly 500 (I need to debate this with my supplier - but I digress) I get to spread a few hundred dollars of shipping cost across the cardinals which allows me to price really in expensive on the discus side...

From an LFS side with increasing utility cost and sky rocketing rental costs I think they get the biggest bang for the buck in carrying discus. They can easily get a 100% - 200% mark-up on the discus which supports their higher cost - they can't move enough guppies to cover the rent, IMO.

[lhforbes12]

Any other thoughts here? So Many Discus Keepers so few opinions?:)


Hi Larry,
You mentioned that if you account for Inflation you think that discus are where they should be as compared to back in the 70s? and yet the price of other tropicals like cardinals is still where is was in the 70s? I'm wondering if you remember any other fish species prices from back then?

If I remember correctly glass fish were about a buck, rams were $5 (again what I can get them for now) other apistos were also around $5, I bought my silver arawana as a baby that still had a yoke sac for either $5 or $7.50 (but I also sold it as a 24" monster for $250), angels were anywhere from $1 to $7.50 depending on strain, G. jurapari were $5, neons on sale were 10 for $1, livebearers were right around $1, surprisingly feeder goldfish were 100 for $10 just as now (the arawana ate around 50 of them a week).


I think its interesting that a point was made that Keeping fish may have actually gone down....so keeping fish is cheaper now? I'm not sure about that...I look at the price of heaters from LFS and they are outrageous...filters the same... Utilities are up...food is up in cost as well...>>granted alot of these increases is probably related to the more expensive technologies, but I think alot of it is because we want it and will pay to meet our hobby "wants"

Actually heaters cost about the same ($10-$20), a Vortex Diatom D-1 cost $70, which I can actually find cheaper now, Eheims (what are now called "Classics" were $120-$150, so more expensive back then, Supreme AquaKings (an old time HOB) were around $35-$40.


Let me reword my question... do you think there are more discus being bred and marketed than their are consumers in demand of them? Do you think that our market is pretty much saturated and theres really not a large demand for discus? Are more and more hobbyists keeping discus?These are all subjective questions and answers.. it not really about answering correctly here..more about perceptions..I think Perceptions play a big role in prices here.

I think that as discus keepers we are the exception, not the rule. If people want to spend the kind of money and labor involved I think they are far more likely to go to saltwater. This is also not terribly different from "the old days", discus keepers have always been "a breed apart". As to the market being saturated, I know I have been unable to sell my RTs which are actually very nice looking discus, whether this is because they are an old strain or not I don't know. I do know that the White Butterflies are VERY hot right now, it seems all of my closer friends want some. So, yes I do believe we are saturated, at least with the older strains. This fickleness with discus keepers is something new btw, but when I started there were really only Greens, Blues, Browns and Hekels, at least that were available to me.


I'm not saying that discus are too expensive for their worth here...Just asking...if thats what others think.... and trying to get a discussion going on why discus are what they are as far as cost.

Let me ask you a question Al; Do you think a flowerhorn is worth 2 to 3 times the price of a good discus? I certainly don't, but that's what they are going for. Going back to above a Geophagus jurapari here in Chicagoland goes for around $20-$35 for a small fish. My point being that discus prices really aren't all that bad these days, nor are equipment prices. I will grant you that utilities and food have skyrocketed though. In the 70's almost 40 tanks I had in my garage ranging from 10 gallons to 240 gallons cost all of an added $20 a month to my electric bill, I shudder to think what it would cost now.

[lhforbes12]

Larry,
You're not that old I was born in the 70's =)

As far as cardinals, I sell them for a $1 and I don't make a whole bunch on them the upside is in a box there is supposedly 500 (I need to debate this with my supplier - but I digress) I get to spread a few hundred dollars of shipping cost across the cardinals which allows me to price really in expensive on the discus side...

From an LFS side with increasing utility cost and sky rocketing rental costs I think they get the biggest bang for the buck in carrying discus. They can easily get a 100% - 200% mark-up on the discus which supports their higher cost - they can't move enough guppies to cover the rent, IMO.

Bill,
Since I buy a majority of my fish from you, I am aware of your prices <grin>
I do disagree about the discus markup at LFS though, considering that they pay around $5 per fish their markup is much more than even 200%. At least up here even RTs go for around $30 at an LFS and that is low balling it, the average is probably about $35, for horrible fish. To be fair, most of the tropical fish retailers in my immediate area truly suck, poor diseased fish that are ill cared for is all we have around here, unless they are saltwater. As a personal observation I have noticed that the closer to the coasts you get the more likely you are to find more freshwater tropicals, whereas in the middle of the country everyone seems to prefer saltwater.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Larry,
On your equipment prices... Did you buy your equipment at a LFS back in the 70's or Online at a discount store like most do now?:) . JK>>>. Last tiime I was in LFS out here.. submersible heaters were between 30 and $44 dollars? and even the old hang on the back ones are pretty expensive....aquaclear 500s...are 2-3 times as expensive at LFs as online..

so I guess my point is If we are talking costs of the equipments, are we really looking at a valid example if the products come from two very different supply markets?

as for the flower horns..I'll reserve judgement until they are around as long as discus and have been bred as extensively, I have heard from many that the flowerhorn bubble burst awhile ago... it should be interested to see what happens there to price and availibility.. I am guessing if the wants are high enough..the price will keep pace!:)

-al

[Willie]

Another way of looking at this situation is to gauge our own quality and price perceptions. How much would YOU pay for a high quality 5"+ discus? This would be an adult fish, almost breeding size, that you expect to spawn.

You, here, are defined as a discriminating, expert discus hobbyist who knows

1. what a good discus is suppose to look like,
2. who know that importers are charging,
3. who know which seller to trust, and
4. who knows shipping will cost ~$75.

So you don't get to hand pick this fish. How much would you pay?

Willie

[Ed13]

As far as cardinals, I sell them for a $1 and I don't make a whole bunch on them the upside is in a box there is supposedly 500 (I need to debate this with my supplier - but I digress) I get to spread a few hundred dollars of shipping cost across the cardinals which allows me to price really in expensive on the discus side...

You will rarely get the purchased number, because they only count 1 or 2 bags with X amount of water+fish of a batch weight it and then only weight subsequent bags of the same fish number. You might get more than 500 or less than that. They also bagged the fish earlier than shipping and might take out the dead ones prior to shipping so you end up with even less and still have to pay for them, look for balloons or similar stuff in the bags

BTW, I won't mind if you PM your cardinal supplier;) since the one we buy from won't allow us to sell them for under $2:mad: and they don't really arrive in the best condition, by now I've seen thousands of DOA from the different importers on the island



If I remember correctly glass fish were about a buck, rams were $5 (again what I can get them for now) other apistos were also around $5, I bought my silver arawana as a baby that still had a yoke sac for either $5 or $7.50 (but I also sold it as a 24" monster for $250), angels were anywhere from $1 to $7.50 depending on strain, G. jurapari were $5, neons on sale were 10 for $1, livebearers were right around $1, surprisingly feeder goldfish were 100 for $10 just as now (the arawana ate around 50 of them a week).


Rams:
blue $6.99
gold $5.99
Bolivian $4.99
German $6.99
Balloons $5-$8
Quarter size angels $2.99-$4.99
G jurapari $5-$8 for a small one
Goldfish between the 5x$1 and $8x$1


Bill,
Since I buy a majority of my fish from you, I am aware of your prices <grin>
I do disagree about the discus markup at LFS though, considering that they pay around $5 per fish their markup is much more than even 200%. At least up here even RTs go for around $30 at an LFS and that is low balling it, the average is probably about $35, for horrible fish. To be fair, most of the tropical fish retailers in my immediate area truly suck, poor diseased fish that are ill cared for is all we have around here, unless they are saltwater. As a personal observation I have noticed that the closer to the coasts you get the more likely you are to find more freshwater tropicals, whereas in the middle of the country everyone seems to prefer saltwater.

Don't know from other countries but here I know all of the major importers and wholesalers and from were they buy what and none are able to purchase LFS(not good nor bad and hormone enough to glow in the dark) quality discus for under $7.50 without shipping costs. They try to get back the cost of the fish+shipping, a profit selling them at wholesale level and then a profit selling them at retail if the entertain this kind of business, which the three biggest wholesalers in the island do and still none have them over $24.99, keep in mind LFS discus though.



Let me reword my question... do you think there are more discus being bred and marketed than their are consumers in demand of them? Do you think that our market is pretty much saturated and there's really not a large demand for discus? Are more and more hobbyists keeping discus?These are all subjective questions and answers.. it not really about answering correctly here..more about perceptions..I think Perceptions play a big role in prices here.



In a way it is, big farms breed for quantity and not quality so a large numbers of would be culls end up in the market, and with a large numbers of new discus keepers buying them they die in a hurry only to have the buyers get some more. There is also the quality discus market going on along this.

[Alight]

Let me reword my question... do you think there are more discus being bred and marketed than their are consumers in demand of them? Do you think that our market is pretty much saturated and theres really not a large demand for discus? Are more and more hobbyists keeping discus?These are all subjective questions and answers.. it not really about answering correctly here..more about perceptions..I think Perceptions play a big role in prices here.


Why would a major breeder try to saturate the market with Discus? Other types of tropical fish are so much easier to breed and raise, and more people will buy them than will buy Discus, because of the reputation of Discus being hard to keep.

LFS don't want to stock Discus in any large numbers, because they will darken and die before they sell them, so they will lose their investiment in a shipment. They are hardly worth having shipped in small numbers from the cheap supplies in Asia.

So, Discus, especially really good looking ones are rare in LFS and very few people have seen a good looking Discus of any variety, so they don't buy. You would think this would mean low prices fore Discus, but because of all of the above, really big breeders don't raise them, so the supply stays small. Few lfs stock them, so they hard to find = low supply for the average consumer, unless he wants to go to the internet. Many consumers just don't want to buy from the internet and even fewer want to chance buying live fish, that they know are touchy, over the internet. So LFS prices can stay high.

For the average small breeder (garage sized fishroom) the costs of energy (need lots of warm water) water, lighting, food, and most of all, labor for Discus all add up to very little profit raising and selling Discus, even with the "high" prices reputable people charge these days.

So, I'd say that the price for Discus pretty much matches the supply and demand theory, overall.

I don't see any exceptions for the cult varieties, and really super first class Discus, either.

[Alan]

Economics does not differentiate the motivation of the buyer, whether it's want or need. Both are classified as demand. So, the supply and demand of economics still apply. Price is not a fixed variable. Note that if you are buying, you can still haggle and the seller can still be flexible. This is true even when you buy in retail establishments where the price of an item is printed out for the consumer. I recently got an extra discount at Big 5 and I know of some people who ask for discounts from managers of "known" retail establishments. The item I purchased at Big 5 is obviously not a need.

[lhforbes12]

Hi Larry,
On your equipment prices... Did you buy your equipment at a LFS back in the 70's or Online at a discount store like most do now?:) . JK>>>. Last tiime I was in LFS out here.. submersible heaters were between 30 and $44 dollars? and even the old hang on the back ones are pretty expensive....aquaclear 500s...are 2-3 times as expensive at LFs as online..

so I guess my point is If we are talking costs of the equipments, are we really looking at a valid example if the products come from two very different supply markets?

as for the flower horns..I'll reserve judgement until they are around as long as discus and have been bred as extensively, I have heard from many that the flowerhorn bubble burst awhile ago... it should be interested to see what happens there to price and availibility.. I am guessing if the wants are high enough..the price will keep pace!:)

-al

Al,
You are, of course, correct. While I now buy pretty much everything except tanks online, if I bought them at a local LFS the price would most certainly be higher. But 4 times higher than the 70's? No. A perfect example is the 75 Ingrid just bought me. It cost $200 complete with glass canopy and fluorescent light fixture and was purchased at PetsMart. Back in the 70's the same tank would have cost about the same price, which means it is actually 4 times cheaper now.

[1977]

I think the prices are right in line or even too cheap! The problem is that most pet stores and lots of breeders sell poor quality discus for very high prices($50 or $60) or even more for adults. At the same time some of us sell only the best discus our pairs produce and cull the rest. There are many resources here on Simply or other places where for $20 you can get very nice discus, which is really too cheap when compared to the $50 discus at the lfs.