Discus fostering angel fry...thread renamed.

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
heres the deal.. I have a pair of angel fish that literally lay over 500 eggs at a time...the Male fertilizes at about 100%...They will bury me in angels if I let them.. So of course seeing the cone covered with angel eggs again..I said what the heck... I took the cone out..and put it into the tank witha pair of discus.. I have screened the cone. this was 2 days ago.. The cone is now covered with hundreds of angel fish fry tails waving in the water.

The pair of discus is a mature pair that has raised discus fry before.....They have not been coached or trained to raise Angelfish fry.

What do you think will happen when the Angels go free swimming? Will Mom and Dad discus eat them or adopt them? I honestly don't know..This is a real time experiment.. Its going on right now. I am hoping that the Cone covered with Fry will look very familar to them...we'll see..

so lets see what you think?
Al

[Squiggy]

*BURRRP!*

[lhforbes12]

I would have to agree with Joe. Having said that, I have seen far stranger things happen with fry from other fish.

[Alight]

I vote for eaten within 3 days.

[White Worm]

I want to see pics of this.

[brewmaster15]

okay mike,
I just took the screen off...just to see what wouldhappen...Screens been off nowabout 15 minutes..I don'tknowif they have even noticed the fry yet...they aren't acting like they have. At this point they are obvious to them.

-al

[Ed13]

I vote for eaten within 3 days.

I was thinking something like this maybe about a week, but I would not be surprised if the do raise them, like
Larry said, stranger things have happen!


I want to see pics of this.

YES, YES pics would be awesome!


okay mike,
I just took the screen off...just to see what wouldhappen...Screens been off nowabout 15 minutes..I don'tknowif they have even noticed the fry yet...they aren't acting like they have. At this point they are obvious to them.

-al

Maybe they are ignoring them to avoid the whole raising someone else's kids thing;) :D , just tell them its their duty and that they are not being ask to do it:D

[Dave_Discus]

The wild instinct will prevail. Discus yum yums.

[pcsb23]

Suspect that the discus will enjoy a nice littel snack, but I'm going to gamble on them adopting (well its only fun for us - life and death for the angel fry though).

[Timbo]

Big Discus = Picking teeth
Lil Angel Fry = Syphoned off the bottom tomorrow as discus droppings

*edit*
hey! its been like an hour since Al raised the screen...what happened AL?

[brewmaster15]

I put the screen back on.. LOL...I want to give the fry a little time to bond with MOM and dad...

Actually I put the screen back because the angel fry don't hold on to the substrate as well as the discus (my observation)

I figure I'll take the screen off periodically....Then once free swimming its all up to them..

Heres a few pics as requested...

-al

[White Worm]

Uh.....yeah.....that is a crap load of eggs / fry. I can see why you would be ran over if they do that often. Do angels each from parents like discus?

[AADiscus]

I think they might eat a few. ;) But what I have learned from adoptive parents in the discus world they will do just fine. I think once they get accustomed to them they will do great. JMO

[brewmaster15]

Hi mike,
No its the one major difference.. The angel parents will protect them, but the fry fend for themselves.. Unlike discus fry that need their parents slime initially, angel fry are pretty self sufficient. That said, I have to wonder if at some point in their evolution angel fry did feed from their parents sides... Reason why I say this is because the pair that laid these eggs was almost eaten alive by their fry a few months ago while I was away camping.. I have had the same happen with discus fry eating their parents.
-al

[ShinShin]

I think the discus will become frustrated with the free swimmers and eat them.
Mat

[April]

i say the same as shinshin..discus want to call them to them..and if they wont go to their body..they will get frustrated trying to get them back..and nibble.
wasnt this done before? or the other way around? quarles..was goin on about discus fry with angels..or angel fry with discus. dont remember the results.

[brewmaster15]

Hi April,
Yes, Jim Quarles did do this opposite,,, He posted that he had some discus eggs hatched..and the angel fish reared the young to a point.....I always remembered that and wanted to see if it would work the other way.:)

-al

[Kenny's Discus]

Hi Al - I wanna see pics also as the angel frys get a little bigger in the coming days!:p I thought about doing something similar with my albino angel frys too but just didn't get a chance to do it.(ended up having my discus pairs to raise a few german blue rams frys only:D j/k) I hope you will succeed Al but I myself wouldn't bet on it. I hope I'm 100% wrong on my prediction here my friend.;)

Kenny

[brewmaster15]

Kenny,
I succeed either way...I get the answer to part of my questions!;) :)

-al

[brewmaster15]

Interesting observation.. I saw the male discus looking intently thru the screen at the wigglers.. the female was pretty much clueless to their existence..

I pulled out the screen and watched closely.. the female still ignored the fry... the male on the other hand, got right up to them and intently fanned them..

A bunch got knocked off the cone so I put the screen back on... the wanders from the cone are now being Mouth Brooded by both parents! and Mom and dad are guarding this handful outside the wire...

so far its encouraging..

-al

[Tony_S]

Yesterday I voted for the pair adopting the Angel fry...at least in the short term anyhow. I really think the end result will be determined soley by the parental instincts of this individual pair....and even IF the fry do get eaten by this pair....I think if you kept trying with other pairs, you could, and would eventually find a pair that would take care of the angel fry without a problem....the whole 'parenting' aspect is purely instinct driven IMO...some pairs SUCK at it...while others are picture perfect examples.

Tony

[brewmaster15]

Thats a good point Tony and I agree 100%. :)

-al

[Kindredspirit]

Very interesting Al! I wonder what those pair are thinking...."where did these eggs come from?" You shld take a video at some point...that wld be very cool to see! So the male went up and fanned them...? Proves what has been said all along....females are much brighter;)


Great experiment! You may make the Discus/Angels/ History Archives there Al:)

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[poconogal]

I think they may be adopted by your pair... sounds like they have a very strong parenting instinct. Like Marie said, though, they'll be wondering Now when and how did these get here??? LOL.

[brewmaster15]

Marie,
that videos a good idea...My camcorders not the best..but I'll dust it off and see if I can get some good clips..

-al

[kaceyo]

Hi Al,
Interesting question. In nature there are many examples of parents dropping the kids off on a totaly different species to do the rearing for them. I saw a video once where an unsuspecting cichlid had it's eggs eaten and replaced by a catfish. The catfish fry were huge by comparison and acted completely different than her offspring would act, but that wasn't enough to break the instinctual parenting drive built into the cichlids. I think they will try very hard to raise them and only give up if they are overwelmed by the sheer quantity of fry.

Kacey

[Ed13]

Hi Al,
Interesting question. In nature there are many examples of parents dropping the kids off on a totaly different species to do the rearing for them. I saw a video once where an unsuspecting cichlid had it's eggs eaten and replaced by a catfish. The catfish fry were huge by comparison and acted completely different than her offspring would act, but that wasn't enough to break the instinctual parenting drive built into the cichlids. I think they will try very hard to raise them and only give up if they are overwelmed by the sheer quantity of fry.

Kacey

Synodontis multipunctatus is the catfish from Lake Tanganyika that does this, although there are others this is the most common one. The catfish fry are born first and eat the cichlid fry, by the time the female is ready to release the fry all that remains is the fat little catfish.

So far I think that the discus will make an effort to raise them but will be overwhelmed at some point from to many fry. The video would be cool Al.

I'm sure that some breeders would hope that it could work the other way around, Angel pairs raising discus fry;)

[brewmaster15]

This pair has not spawned for me in almost a year..I was just about ready to split them up..

regardless of what happens here..I'll be interested to see if they start spawning again.:)

-al

[brewmaster15]

Heres an update... I watched as a few fry spun of the cone, the discus try to gather them up and place them on the screen...I decided to really test this.. I pulled the screen and will leave it off... At this point the parents are both doing an awesome job of taking care of the fry..

My biggest concern is when they try to spit these angel fry out...they don't stick very well..so it may be that they think they are defective..and eat them:( we'll see.

I did get some really good clips of them Mouth Brooding in typical discus style...I just need to get them off the camcorder..

-al

[1977]

If the pair had some of their own fry I think they might adopt them but not just putting them in the tank

[Ryan]

Over on SimplyCichlids I posted videos and pictures of two angel pairs tending each other's fry. Angels can be fickle about rearing fry -- I know you can use discus as "surrogates" with other discus fry sometimes, but I'd never determined whether or not angels would accept fry from other pairs.

I found a few interesting things. The first was that the angels WOULD readily accept and rear fry that were not theirs, even when the angels hadn't actually spawned or laid eggs. Second was that my pairs, which at one point spawned within 2 days of one another, quit trying to attack and kill each other at the eggcrate divider and actually COOPERATED in raising the huge batch of fry together (all 4 adults). And the third thing, which was the most interesting, was that a conditioned pair of albino kribensis freely moved and herded angel fry, but never ate them. This was a surprise, because it's a completely different species from a completely different continent.

I would assume that any animal with a strong parental instinct has the potential to raise young from another species. Discus, in my mind, are one of the most "involved" fish when it comes to raising their fry, and I would think that they'd continue to raise the angel fry unless they felt they were defective and ate them as Al mentioned.

[April]

theres been a few breeders who had central water system..and the fry got through .and spread through all the tanks. the pairs adopted them. they didnt have fry of their own..but they cared for them and went dark and produced slimecoat.

[LizStreithorst]

I had an Apple Snail raise some Discus fry for me. He wasn't too happy about it. "Slow as a snail" does not apply then Discus fry are trying to feed off them.

[Kindredspirit]

I have an Apple Snail! He is getting too big tho....Liz...whatever happened with the fry? Incredible pic!! What happened to the parents that the snail had to take over?

Great Story:)


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[brewmaster15]

LOL Liz!!!

heres a mpg...sorry on the quality I'm having some operating difficulties..


-al

[LizStreithorst]

Amazing, Brew. I voted that they'd chow on 'em. But they're loving them just like they would if they were their own. I see what you mean about the babies not wanting to stick.
Marie, The parents started nibbling on them. Don't ask about the fry. Same old story.....

[brewmaster15]

Its been pretty amazing to watch .. I think the main problem here is going to be the adhesion... when angel fry get this age and start to detach.. I have noticed my angels gather them and move..they pile them up...on a sponge, in the corner..... they don't religiously try to stick them back like discus do...Discus expect the fry to stick pretty much until they go free swimming ...angels adhesive glands probably are weaker and stop working sooner..

I think if I tried this in reverse there would be no problem with angel pairs adopting and raising (until the discus ate them or starved)... But What I see now makes me think the discus pair will think the fry are defective..... they are still tending them...but the fry are scattered all over the tank bottom...few on cone..... I think its going to frustrate the parents.

I really do wonder if this pair will eat them and then spawn in the next few days to week...That would be great...it would say alot about the biology of Discus..already I feel like I have learned a tremendous amount.

-al

ps..I'll try to post more movies..once I get the quality down pat.

[brewmaster15]

vids removed....bad link....see end of this thread...
-al

[Ryan]

Al,

The angel fry should all be free-swimming soon though. Do you think adult discus instinctively know when the fry should go free swimming? I guess what I'm getting at is, do the parents know, "Hey this is too soon for them to be off the cone" or do you think they just go with the flow? You will have a portion that leave the cone early, but for the most part the free-swimming should occur at about the same time for a majority of the batch. Once they leave the cone, you'd think the discus would switch from gathering/spitting mode to herding mode like angels do.

A couple more interesting observations about the angels I was working with. They were vat-raised for several generations, so although they were domestic color varieties they sort of had that wild angelfish mentality. I actually had a few fry (not all) act like they were feeding from the parents. They would swim close to their sides and "attach", it looks like they were biting or grazing. The parents would let them do this.

Also, the angels signalled to the fry with rapid fin twitching. The female seemed to do this more, but both parents did it. They seemed to do this in order to round up all the fry or signal them for danger (they did this everytime I approached the tank). Do you think the discus signals will confuse them? Or is there a chance the discus parents will somehow convince the fry to feed off of them?

This is interesting. I hope they don't eat them :)

[brewmaster15]

Hi Ryan,
I am really hoping they get to free swimming ...I want to see if the Discus try to attract them.. Discus actually twitch as well to attract their fry...Its a a much stronger trembling than I have seen in angels. I think though that it will work the same.... I think the angels may graze off the sides of the discus as well.. the angel fry do like grazing on algae in the tank , and i am sure its one of the components of discus slime.. I think it will be more of a "we eat anything edible" thing though, vs the" I crave and love Discus slime":)

I'd say the next 24 hours are critical...If even a handful are reared I would be amazed and thrilled!

-al

[Ryan]

Well, we know that Uaru produce slime and feed their fry, but not to the extent that discus do. It makes you wonder... if the slime is there, will they just know to eat it? Maybe any cichlid fry would eat slime if their parents produced it. I'd guess the reason angel fry don't graze from the parents is because the parents aren't producing excessive amounts of slime like discus do. But since it's available, I'm almost positive they'll eat it :)

[brewmaster15]

Well at this point all the Fry are off the cone...Theres a few scattered around and a couple of big piles in the corners of the tank ( water currents)....

Th discus are pretty much hoovering over them still... I am hoping tomarrow will have the fry free swimming...fingers and fins crossed.:)

-al

[Kindredspirit]

This thread is so very interesting Al! I think of it often and wonder what will happen...ultimately....in the end ~ Will you try this again? I think you shld!

What do you think will happen Al? Did you ever say? What a great experiment!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_1_218.gif

[brewmaster15]

Hi Marie,
I voted that they would adopt them. If I had worded my question slightly different and just asked if they would eat them a or adopt them.? The Answer would have been a resounding yes...They adopted them... that obvious by their behavior and the movies.. they are treating those fry exactly like they would their own offspring... So I am absolutely thrilled with that... That tells a very important bit of information about how Discus Recognize their fry....


So at least initially they adopt them.... My concern is if the fundamental differences in how the angel Fry adhere and free swimm verses Discus Fry is going to cause the Discus to lose interest and then eat them....or if they will actively raise them.. At this point I don't know.. I hadn't ever considered the possibility that adhesion to the substrate may be an issue.:confused: Time will tell.

One thing to note.. This isn't really a good experiment..It lacks controls and is limited in Scope....Its at best a very interesting set of observations that could lead to further real experiments...so will I try it again? I love a good question that needs an answer;) :D !

So Marie, what did you think of the clips of the discus taking care of the Fry?

-al

[poconogal]

This thread is so very interesting Al! I think of it often and wonder what will happen...ultimately....in the end ~ Will you try this again? I think you shld!

What do you think will happen Al? Did you ever say? What a great experiment!


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_1_218.gif

Al, like Marie said, this thread IS so very interesting. I am finding it more and more fascinating and I really look forward to all your updates. I can hardly wait to hear the ultimate answer! Thank you so much for posting this.

Connie

[Kindredspirit]

So Marie, what did you think of the clips of the discus taking care of the Fry?

-al


Well to be honest I downloaded them and then forgot to check them out as I had to leave ~ I just saw them Al ~ you must be so proud of yourself! Those videos are great!! ( and my idea I might add:D )

Al ~ the main discus caring for them is the male right? His eye moves up and down and around and he is so attentive...I so wanted to get in his head and see what he is thinking! Those videos were way cool! It looked like at one point he was eating some of them?

I saw a discus at Kenny's Al, he was fanning them on the cone as well! I was like..."Kenny what is he doing?" It was so neat to see:p And it is usually the male...why do they blow on them ...so they do not fungus over? I loved those videos ~ do the fry look dif or is it just me? I know they are different....but....

So Al ...you are thinking if or...since the Angels do not attach to their parents side to feed....and when the discus figure that out they will eat them?

Well think of something!! lol! Love this thread:)


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_15.gif

[Dave_Discus]

They are waiting until they make a decent sized bite.
Letting them get fattened up.;)

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Connie.:)

Marie,
If you look closely at the videos, particularly movie 4 and 6 you'll see that The Discus isn't really eating them...They take them in their mouth and then spit them back out...Its something they do to protect them if they are threatened or to relocate and gather them in one space...

When the Discus spit out the fry they Stick back to cone or other surface as they have several strong adhesive glands located on their heads. Jack wattley showed some excellent photos in one of his books of these glands.. when a discus is ready to free swim... The glands no longer work and are probably reabsorbed.... This is where I think theres a major difference between the discus fry and angel fry...I think the glands are weaker in angels in a shorter time frame than discus.. so basically the fry don't stick or adhere to the cone as would discus for the same point in Time course..

Instead they fall all over the place..and the Discus Pair doesn't know how to deal with it.. Initially they try and try to get the fry back on the cone...but they can't because the angels don't adhere the same... Probably this would indicate a weak or defective spawn to the discus...and hence...they eat or ignore them.

At this point all the angel fry are scattered around the tank..The discus are not eating them...but they are not trying to get them on the cone either.. Free swimming should start to happen any time now.

-al

[Ryan]

Al,

I think the fact that they're ignoring them is a good sign. It gives the angel fry a chance to go free-swimming. Once they do, I'm hoping the discus realize that they're normal, healthy fry and move onto the next phase of herding/guarding.

You know what we need? We need Uaru fry :) Those fry know to feed from their parents. They also develop similarly I think. It'd be fun to watch the discus raise those.

[brewmaster15]

Well Ryan, If my pair of uaru ever start getting it right..I'll try them as well!:)

-al

[Kindredspirit]

We need Uaru fry :) Those fry know to feed from their parents. They also develop similarly I think. It'd be fun to watch the discus raise those.


Okay Boys... I so want to know what a Uaru is please:o Hell I can not even pronounce that! Got a pic?

New thread Al!:D How cool wld it be to have numerous tanks going with all dif kinds of fry and discus as parental units!! lol!

Got Time? Space? Patience? That'd be a No No and No...for me:(


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[Kindredspirit]

Thanks Connie.:)

Marie,
If you look closely at the videos, particularly movie 4 and 6 you'll see that The Discus isn't really eating them...They take them in their mouth and then spit them back out...


I just went and looked again and you are right! Of course you knew that:o Particularly in movie 6...He had like clumps of fry which he spit back out! Amazing to me really! I love this Al...and if you really think about it those are not even discus fry...that is incredible in itself IMO....Have you ever done this before? This def wld not work in reverse ~ angels raising discus as I bet they wld freak when they tried to attach?



When the Discus spit out the fry they Stick back to cone or other surface as they have several strong adhesive glands located on their heads. Jack wattley showed some excellent photos in one of his books of these glands.. when a discus is ready to free swim... The glands no longer work and are probably reabsorbed.... This is where I think theres a major difference between the discus fry and angel fry...I think the glands are weaker in angels in a shorter time frame than discus.. so basically the fry don't stick or adhere to the cone as would discus for the same point in Time course..

Instead they fall all over the place..and the Discus Pair doesn't know how to deal with it.. Initially they try and try to get the fry back on the cone...but they can't because the angels don't adhere the same... Probably this would indicate a weak or defective spawn to the discus...and hence...they eat or ignore them

Well lets hope these discus are missing an IQ point or something! I am learning so much here ~ ignoring is good yes.....then you will just start to feed them by hand...right?




At this point all the angel fry are scattered around the tank..The discus are not eating them...but they are not trying to get them on the cone either.. Free swimming should start to happen any time now.

-al


Well get that video ready, Sir! Are you surprised Al that they have lasted this long? This is like a very intense story.....



Get that Uaru ready:p



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[Ryan]

Marie, I've shown you Uaru before. They are a South American cichlid, also called "poor man's discus" because they have similar behavior and shape... though Uaru are longer than discus. Their name is pronounced "wah-roo".

Here's a link to Google Images with some great pictures:

http://images.google.com/images?q=Uaru&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

There are at least two types of Uaru... the common ones, Uaru amphiacanthoides, which are brown with a big black spot on their side... and a more rare, difficult-to-keep one called Uaru fernandezyepezi which is a light grey/white color with a different type of black pattern. Both probably show up on the Google image search.

They share similar behaviors with discus... they are shy, intelligent, and have similar parenting skills. Unlike discus, they are primarily vegetarian. They grow large and need a big tank with good filtration. I hear that if you are bitten by them (yes, they have noticable teeth as adults) you'll get a nasty infection. :p

Uaru go through color morphs as fry. They start out as a dark little fish with cream-colored spots, and go through several changes before finally becoming the adults you see in the pictures.

[poconogal]

....Well get that video ready, Sir! Are you surprised Al that they have lasted this long? This is like a very intense story.....
Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif
I keep checking for updates. It's like waiting for "Who Shot J.R."

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Its about 1:30 am and all the fry are free swimming.... Most are staying along the bottom 1/3 of the tank, though there are some pretty much everywhere.. I have not seen any indication of grazing off the discus yet..

I feed my angel fry a Powdered Food I make at the first feeding..so I had done that earlier this evening. I also feed Frozen newly hatched baby Brine shrimp towards at the end of the first day Free swimming with angels ( I always freeze a bunch ahead of time).. Live BBS will be ready tomarrow.

I just went down to look at the tank and watched in dismay as the female "gobbled up" a couple of angels right in front of me! Bummer I thought, so I watched her a bit longer to see how rapidly she was eating them.:( Glad I did too...because after a good minute of looking at me and swimming around...she spit the group back onto the Cone!! She was not eating them she was protecting them!

So everyone at least at this time point, At least the Female is still tending them as her own...The Male just hoovered over the mass on the bottom and watched me.

Still cautiously optimistic here .. If come morning the fry are still alive and doing well I will take a few more clips. I don't want to stress the "parents" out at this point.

-al

[Kindredspirit]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_125.gif



That is great news Al~


Marie~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[Ryan]

My only concern is if the fry did start grazing from the parents, they might cause some harm. Angels have large spawns and the babies are voracious when it comes to their appetites. You mentioned that some of yours actually began 'eating' the parents while you were away... I've seen this too in very hungry fry. So even if they did start to feed from the discus, I'd supplement with the brine and powder, or else they might go a little overboard. At that point the discus would probably get irritated and kill/eat them.

Just my predictions :)

[Timbo]

hey cats will do it. why not angels? :):)

http://www.funpic.hu/en.picview.php?id=30295&c=4&s=dd&p=1

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Just a quick update... Fry are doing well. MOM and Dad haven't eaten them yet... I have been taking a few movies the past 24 hours.. and will post them latter today, along with some observations.
Take care,

al

[brewmaster15]

This gets even better.. I had a second pair of angels with fry...very small batch of fry..They are a young pair.. so i siphoned off the 15 or so fry..these are probably a day away from free swimming. I took these fry and added them to another Discus pairs tank... again..a pair that had raised fry. That was last night.

This morning that pair is tending the fry as well. I just took a video clip of them mouth brooding and they have placed the fry on the cone and are tending them! That one really surprised me! :)

-al

[Kenny's Discus]

All I can say is: you the Man Al...you really are.:)

Kenny

[brewmaster15]

Hi everyone,
If you have been following this and want to see a few Movies of the Discus Parents and their adopted Fry...Here they are...



Vids removed...bad links...see end of thread for movies...




I don't really Know at what point to call this a success, Everyone seems to be doing really Great ....Its a strange thing to watch knowing that these are Angel Fry...Not Discus.:)

I have not seen any twitching yet on the part of the Discus, Just a gentle herding of the Fry.. I plan on just following this out as far as it will go, but I have to say...At this point I don't believe what has happened...Its really Amazes me.:)

any comments are welcome as always!

-al

[LizStreithorst]

Brew every time I see that you've posted to this thread I think, "Oh no...they've eaten the kids". I know I voted that they'd chow, but I'm really pulling for the little guys?
What strain are the angels? Any pics of the real parents?

[kaceyo]

I had a feeling they would be more succesful than most would think. Having seen many mothers in the animal kingdom care for and raise young of another species, and knowing discus will raise fry that aren't from their own spawn, I thought their chances were pretty good. Of course it's still an ongoing experiment so...time will tell the whole story. Are the angel fry feeding from the parents? Now that would be a surprise.

Kacey

[Kindredspirit]

All I can say is: you the Man Al...you really are.:)

Kenny

Yep!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_5_132.gif

[brewmaster15]

Hi Liz,
The Angel Pair are pearl scale Marbled... They are basically Mutts that Throw many different forms..I get silvers, marble, pearl scale to name a few...

Here a pic of some of their big spawns..

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//attachment.php?attachmentid=14326&d=1147531776



http://forum.simplydiscus.com//attachment.php?attachmentid=14307&d=1147530938




I have pics of the parents somewhere. The basically look like the light Marbled above. Their scales are beautiful though.

-al

[brewmaster15]

Hi kacey,
I haven't seen them graze the parents yet..I was tempted to Not Feed the fry, but If I did that ,I might have compromised them... so I opted to feed lightly with BBS. I am feeding 3 X a day..I hope that the angels do start grazing, if only oppotunistically .. Its definetly an interesting set of observations here..


Discus raising angels...who'd have thought it would work as it does.. What really amazed me was dropping the fry into the other pairs tank..They are still tending that handful on the cone as well.

-al

[traco]

Al, this is really interesting. Each reply I read I keep thinking "okay, now the fry got eaten" but no.:)

Keep us updated and keep the pics/videos coming. It really is neat to follow this.

Hmmm... what shall you try next?:confused:

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
heres an update.. Mom and Pop Discus are still raising those angel fish fry. The fry are doing great, growing nicely...

Aside from not feeding off the sides of the parents, you would not know that these are baby angels and not baby discus.

take care,
al

[Kenny's Discus]

Hi Al - since you're at it pls try to make the angel frys feed off the side of the discus "parents".:D j/k

Joking aside Al, when the angel frys become recognizable(but still with the discus pair) be sure to post a bunch of pics here...it should be interesting to see to say the least!

Take care friend,
Kenny

[brewmaster15]

I'll be sure to do that Kenny!:)

-al

[pcsb23]

WTG Al, just one thought here, if the angel fry make it and grow up, what are you gonna do with them then?? :D

I took a punt on them adopting them, a heart over head decision, looks like the heart wins this one (for now). :)

[Kindredspirit]

Aside from not feeding off the sides of the parents, you would not know that these are baby angels and not baby discus.

take care,
al


How long before we would know Al? Also when do you think the parents will really 'check things out'....and realize?


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_20.gif

[Kindredspirit]

WTG Al, just one thought here, if the angel fry make it and grow up, what are you gonna do with them then?? :D


Send them to his Fav Mod:D

[brewmaster15]

Paul,
If they make it , which at this point I am going to be real surprised if they dont...well Then I guess I will have even more angels than I already unfortunately have.:(

On the Bright side...sometimes the knowledge gained in these venture is well worth the time and effort..

what if the act of raising these angels puts this old and currently non- productive pair back into spawning mode.? do we have a non-drug intervention for pairs off the spawn? LOl I don't know..but Its funny how many people I know that could never have children.. then they adopted a child..and shortly thereafter had their own...makes you wonder huh?

just rambling...time will tell... This little exercise was supposed to answer questions... instead..I have a whole mess more now to think about!:)

-al

[Ryan]

I think you should try it with other types of fry next. I tried this with my angel pairs. When they had wrigglers last time, I moved about 10 krib wrigglers into the tank with them to see if they'd raise them together. They quickly pinpointed and ate the krib fry, but left their own fry alone. I guess angels aren't as nurturing as discus. :angry:

[jeep]

Too bad you're not paying out. I voted they would adopt them :D

[poconogal]

Too bad you're not paying out. I voted they would adopt them :D
I voted they'd be adopted also. I guess the pay out is the fascinating thread and the knowledge gained! Thanks again, Al. Looking forward to the next installment.

Hmmmm, I wonder, though, what the Discus will think of their kids with the funny looking fins???? LOL.

Connie

[Cosmo]

First thouht is the concern that the parents haven't developed the heavy slime layer that they normally would through the breeding process, so if the angel fry come over for a snack they may agitate the parents and instantly become food :( Having bred Angels in the past however, I've never seen the fry attach to the parents for feeding so that may not be an issue. Like Al said, the Angel parents will protect the fry but they're on their own for food. I've observed Angel parents moving the spawn from place to place with their mouths so these poor fry probably won't think anythings wrong until they continue down the Discus gullet :(

Will be interesting to see how things develop. Are you still going to give them fry food or wait and see if they somehow do manage to attach to the Discus parents for food?

Jim

[brewmaster15]

Hi Jim,
At this point I am still feeding the fry BBS.. I really don't think that they have the instinct to graze off the parents as a primary food source like discus do.. I have seen a few of these fry take what looks like a nip, but nothing concerted.

I think if I was to starve them, They would start eating the discus, but I think thats out of necessity, not out of the motivation that the discus fry have.

Currently theDiscus are still raising them.. I can see the discus swim into the group and I think its out of instinct to make it easier for the fry to feed.

Thes fry are getting pretty old...and I see no sign of aggression by the parents.. If anything they get aggressive towards me!:)

Like wise the other discus pair I mentioned that I had thrown another batch of angel frys into... same thing. That pairs going to be interesting because The Mothers eyes have gotten that blood red look, bodies darkened...Shes making Slime..I am sure of it. They are tending about 30-40 fry.

I have a feeling that unless things take a turn for the worse, These baby angels will be just fine with Mom and Dad discus.

al

[Ardan]

Very interesting.
Discus really seem to have the natural tendency to care for the fry, especially since it is happening more than once and with different pairs.:)
I wonder if its because they are "cichlids" and the eggs and hatching were similar?
Ardan

[kaceyo]

Jim,
I think the parents aren't developing slime food because they aren't getting the stimulus needed to trigger it. When the fry attach and start to feed, the parent fish feel it, and that stimulates the production of more food. I don't know if thats it but it sounds likely. Just like a crying baby stimulates mothers to produce milk, feeding fry stimulate the production of more slime.

Kacey

[brewmaster15]

Well Folks gather round for the *th wonder of the fishy world..:D :D anybody see something interesting in these clips?:)



vids removed...bad links... see threads end for movies...


-al

[pcsb23]

Al,

I might be goin' blind here, but are they feeding off the discus side??

[brewmaster15]

yep!!!.. started with a few this morning, and by this afternoon, 20-30 at a time!.. and get this... the pair is acting like normal for a pair with fry.... Right now the male is their favorite, and I have seen the female shake and tremble trying to get the fry to switch.

I'm more amazed every day!

-al

[Squiggy]

Thats too kool...I sure didn't expect them to last...and to see them grazing...wow!

Joe

[pcsb23]

What gets me is the angel fry are acting more like discus fry, great experiment this.

[Kenny's Discus]

Hi Al - it is truly amazing to see angel frys feeding off their fostered discus parent...without seeing the video I'd never have bet that it could happen. What a cool scene and a great job! They should be even more interesting come next week.:p

Kenny

[brewmaster15]

Kenny,
I can't wait until the fins start to develop...I can just see the differences starting...another few days it should be real evident.:) That will make for a cool movie!

-al

[Kindredspirit]

Well it all sounds good Al but I forget how to get the movies to open...:( I click on it and it goes AOL Media Player but never opens....right click gives me no options either:(


But I am glad things are going well ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[brewmaster15]

Marie,
You got to ditch anything with the word AOL in it:)

right click should give you the option to save as... You get nothing on any of the links? anyone else?

I just tested a few and all is well here.

-al

[pcsb23]

They work fine for me, MArie try connecting with AOL then launch IE seperately, don't use the AOL tampered with version, it stinks.

[Ryan]

Anyone with AOL should burn it and get real internet.

Use a stand-alone browser like IE or Firefox, then right click the links and hit Save Target As/Save File As... it should let you download them directly from the links.

Al, I think it's a good time to consider removing some of the fry. Now that they have a taste for slime they may start feeding more heavily off of the parents. You've seen first-hand how destructive a group of angel fry can be. I would hate for them to literally start eating the parents.

I think if you just kept a group of about 30 fry in the tank, it would be a great way to relieve some stress from the pair and also see how the fry develop as they get bigger. At around 4 - 5 weeks when the fins are growing and the shape is changing, I'd like to see how they look with the discus, and also how the discus react to them not growing into little discus :)

Of course, the next part of the experiment would be to grow out and breed the angels and see how they treat their fry.

Ryan

[Giniel]

Hi Marie I use winnamp to watch things like this.

BTW Al congratulations, it is really neat to see angels acting like discus fry.

Debbie

ps I voted that they would adopt them.

[LizStreithorst]

This is absolutely unbelievable. The Discus must somehow have taught the Angel fry this. After all, Angels don't do this with their own parents. Who'd ever have thunk? Not me, that's for sure. I thought they'd be lunch! I am in awe.

[Ed13]

Just to be sure, the angel fry are grazing of the discus foster parents, right?
Or am I alucinating again?:crazy:
This is an :alien: concept, very :cool: !

[Ryan]

Actually Liz, I've had angel fry pick off of their parents' sides before. I think the difference is that the angels don't really produce much slime, so the fry don't invest a lot of time in attempting to graze from them. The discus were probably producing slime once they started tending the fry, so the angels probably became opportunistic and went for it. Angels will graze off of decorations, sponge filters, and even tank glass when they're hungry.

I think that the discus signalling to them may have played a part in this too, though. Which is very interesting.

Come on, Al... find some Uaru to spawn :)

[JeffreyRichard]

I've tried on many occasions to feed angelfish fry to discus ... they don't seem to want to eat them. Angelfish, however, will eagerly consume fry that is not their own.

[raglanroad]

cool experiment, Al !
whats next? discus-raised angel female X discus male ?
Dave

[Kindredspirit]

Ya never know Dave:) I got FireFox Al/Ryan! Proud of me are ya? I saw the videos Al ~ that was so neat to see that ~


Whatz the update?


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[brewmaster15]

Hi Marie,
The fry are doing great with both discus parents.. In the original set of parents (the ones with all the movies) the fry look like little angels now... Dorsal fins are developing, bodies elongated.. I always love this part because I can get a good idea of what they will be...I have bred these angels enough times to know I will get light and dark marbles, and a small percentage of silvers... Scattered thru-out these I will have some nice pearl scales as well.


Behavior wise... I still see the parents tending the fry, not as much feeding off the sides by the parents.. I'll be interested in seeing how long the other pair 's adopted fry continue to feed off the sides...That second pair ,still looks to be making slime..., and actively shakes and herds the fry around.

I'll try to take some Movies latter today or tomarrow.

-al

ps.. The Pair of angels that spawned these fry laid another Several hundred eggs yesterday:(

[Beth]

Okay Al.......

It's time for some new video clips :D

Beth

[brewmaster15]

vids removed...bad links...see thread end for movies

[Kenny's Discus]

I'm still in awe when I saw your video Al. Just a question friend: do the angel frys really take bites at the slime coat of the discus "parent" or do they just stay near their sides exploring and eating the supplemental bbs? I think they probably do but I can't seem to see it clearly in the video...just curious here and thanks in advance Al.

Kenny

[brewmaster15]

Hi kenny,
They really do bite the slime coat... Take a look at clips

vids removed...bad links...see threads end for movies..

[Kindredspirit]

Hi Marie,
The fry are doing great with both discus parents.. In the original set of parents (the ones with all the movies) the fry look like little angels now... Dorsal fins are developing, bodies elongated..


Hey Al ~ I just checked out the latest videos and those Angels are huge! Nice looking too:) Tell me something I was just curious how long from beginning to now ~ since the time you put the Angel Fry in with the Discus pair...how many days has it been? Total? At what week do or can the baby Angels be completely on their own...w/o the discus parents? Oh...and......lol! You never had any problem with the Angels raising their own fry did you? You just wanted to see if this wld work I'm thinking....NOW you have double trouble....now that the discus can help!

Ever try it the other way around? With the Angels rearing discus eggs?


Inquiring Minds Wanna Know ....ya think? lol! Thanks Al!:)





The Pair of angels that spawned these fry laid another Several hundred eggs yesterday:(

Al can you not just split up the pair if you do not want any more fry? ...or not~



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_4_51.gif

[brewmaster15]

Hi Marie,


The eggs were laid on sept 30... The last movies were yesterday oct 14th...so basically 2 weeks have gone by.

baby angels can be away from their parents from the point they are free swimming. The angel parents do guard and protect them..But angel fry are not fed by their parents. I could have pulled these fry and hatched them from eggs without their parents and they would have been fine..

Generally when I have a good pair of angels that parent raise...I'll leave them for 2-4 weeks.. depends on the size of the spawn. most of my pairs of angels parent raise...I have some stubborn but beautiful albinos that prefer having them for breakfast...

This batch of frys angel parents are awesome fish...the best parents I have ever had....and the most aggressive..They'll bite my hand if I go anywhere near their fry ...they also will pretty much kill any other angels...I tried splitting them up before...I have a couple of blind angels as proof.:( Besides... I still want fry from them... Just not so often or so many!:)

glad you liked the big angels... They are special.;)

-al

[pcsb23]

It will be interesting to see if the development rate of these angel fry is any different due to feeding off the discus slime. This is way cool though.

[brewmaster15]

Paul,
I don't know if I can tell that but I do have an observation that may help answer it..

I mentioned how I added that second batch of angel fry to another pair and that these were younger fry, but only 30-40 of them.. The Discus pair raising them look like they may be making some decent slime coat....well anyway.. Both tanks of fry get fed the same....which is basically an excess of what they can eat. The younger fry (smaller group) group are actually larger than the older( larger group).. Both these groups are not from the same parents...but from siblings of the parents.. waters the same...water changes are the same ( could be a factor here as well though because of the numbers of fry)

maybe the difference in growth is attributed to the discus slime being more availible to the smaller group of FRy...hence they grew faster... It'd be a stretch at this point tp guess.. Next time around maybe I will split the group of fry into a control group...artificial raised, control group angelfish raised.. and test group discus raised.:)

-al

[pcsb23]

Al, as you say there are a number of variables at work, but it could suggest there is a growth benefit, in size terms, from the fry feeding off the discus slime. If you do try the control experiment that would be very interesting. Maybe discus slime is a new super food for angels.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Very cool stuff AL.

I hadnt been following this thread till now and the videos are excellent!!

So whats next? ................ Artificially inseminating the angel eggs with discus sperm?? Now that would be an experiment!!

[brewmaster15]

Artificially inseminating the angel eggs with discus sperm?? Now that would be an experiment!!LOL!!! No idea at this point Cage.. I'm still blown away that I have 2 tanks of little angel fish being raised by discus.. Its amazes me.:)

thanks for the comments.

-al

[GrillMaster]

What amazing videos!! I am literally sittin here eatin cheese an crackers an watchin em..:D

I can see you going into the LFS now, an submitting to the owner that these fry were discus raised!!! Worth twice as much!;)

Hope to see it first hand in a couple of weeks! I'll bring the beer.:thumbsup:

[brewmaster15]

hey Mark,
It'll be great meeting you!


Everyone,
on these Angels... Its getting close to the time for me to pull them... One of the 2 pairs , the ones with the larger sized, but younger FRY are really starting to show the signs of excessive feeding, I am speculating that the angels Mouths may be drastically different than the Discus in size and maybe structure... and they maybe be damaging the Discus skin....Its still not evident in the smaller sized angels ...but definetly in the larger fry.. I think I will be pulling the fry from that second group today before any real damage is done....I'll take one last vid there before I do.

The Other group...The Pbs that we have been following...Mom and Dad discus still look good... so I'll leave them alittle longer.

-al

[chrisgreat]

I'm a bit late to this thread since I just joined the forum. Don't have any discus yet but they are among the many fish I will be working with within the next year or so once I get a house and a room just for my fish.
Right now I only have angelfish and have raised them almost continuously for the past 20 years. I've always been interested in discus as well but just didn't have the space to mess with them. I was thrilled when I heard about this thread since I have wondered for years what would happen if someone switched angel and discus eggs and saw what each pair would do with different fry. Very interesting.
I've had experiences with angels raising other cichlid fry. Due to a lack of tank space, I had a pair of kribs and angels in the same tank. They both had spawns at the same time several times but basically kept to their own sides of the tank. Once i got a tank for the kribs, I decided to see what the angels would do with some krib fry that didn't have their parents protecting them. At least with this particular pair, they tried to gather the little kribs up and keep them with their own fry. That really didn't work out too well and they gave up in the end since the kribs were NOT about to stay in the upper reaches of the tank. They knew they were supposed to be at the bottom and they did so very quickly. The angels never ate them though.
That same pair was also in a tank with a pair of convicts. This was back when I was younger and had a tank space problem so the convicts had to go in with the angels for a little while. Potentially very stupid, I know, but that's the past. Anyway, the males got along perfectly fine. The two females, on the other hand, won a fight each and then settled down. They also raised spawns at the same time and the fry got totally mixed up within a couple days and both pairs were raising 2 types of fry at the same time. I later dumped some convict fry in with the angels one I got the convicts their own tank, and the angels gathered up the convicts and this time the new fry stayed with the cloud of angel fry.
Granted, I only tried this switching thing with that one angel pair. I've never had a pair not parent raise but this pair was one of the 2 best I've ever had. The male would literally jump 8 inches out of the water to attack my hand. Not sure how other angel pairs would react. Once I get some space to work with, I'll definitely check that out.
As for little angels grazing on their parents, I've actually heard that some wild angels will show quite a bit of that behavior. Obviously not to the extent that discus do, but the wild fry definitely seemed to graze much more than domestic angels. I've seen the behavior with every spawn I've had but it didn't seem to be the whole spawn. It seems that only a small percentage of angels realize that their parents have something good to eat.
However, some spawns WILL end up tearing their parent to shreds as they get older. I've had some spawns stay with their parents for months without any problems while others will kill them if I didn't take them away. It seems that the spawns that shred their parents start to do so when they have been free swimming for about 3 weeks. It happens very quickly too. I'll just wake up one morning and find one or both adult angels clamped down and trying to avoid their nasty little children. I've never seen the angels get aggressive with their babies but they are obviously uncomfortable.
That's why I'm wondering how putting discus eggs with angels would work out. I could be wrong, but since discus fry are built to eat off their parents and obviously have teeth, they might hurt the angels since the angels aren't built to deal with more than an occasional nip. Of course, I think I've also seen pics of baby angels that showed teeth also. I'm not positive about that though. Of course, baby fish of all kinds can be truly scary looking when you see them in high magnification. Baby discus could be used as a model for some horror movie monster.
Well, I'm glad I'm off the next few days because now that I'm in this forum I only have about 20 something thousand threads to look at to catch up. As it is, I've got a few folders that are rapidly filling up with information about various fish I'm interested in and how to best set up the fishroom. Guess they are going to get even fatter very soon.
Great videos too. Just the fact that I got to see healthy discus in motion was good for me. Except for one tank in a shop close to me, every other discus I've seen in person has been in bad shape. Then again, most angels in the shops are the same way. It's just pathetic how some fish are never healthy. You'd think the shops would try some new sources or ways of keeping up their tanks. I better stop there or else I'll be writing a 10 page rant on that subject.
Definitely keep us posted on how the different angels develop as they grow. Very interesting.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Chris,
Welcome To Simplydiscus!:)

Thanks for adding your thoughts here! I have had many of the same observations with my angel pairs...its absolutely amazing how much harm the fry can do in short time...I thought for sure I was going to lose a pair of angels one time .....they could barely swim...looked like they were hit by a mac truck!....

I still have both sets of angel fry in with the discus parents... though after today I will move out one set of fry... they are very aggressive feeders...I have little doubt by looking at the discus sides that they have TEETH:D may actually have sharper ones than baby discus.:)


The other set of fry I will try and leave a bit longer....They are still eating off the sides of the discus.


Good luck in your hobby!

-al

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Just wanted to post an update for those of you following along...
I have officially ended this experiment.. I pulled both sets of fry today because the parents were starting to really get eaten. The fry are doing well and are in their own tanks.

The discus pairs protected those fry until the very end...I had two very unhappy sets of parents.

whats next? I have no idea..:) I am literally swimming in angels again.....In addition to these sets of fry...I have 3 other sets going with their angel parents.,,I'll need to free up some room before I can try any other experiments.

I hope you enjoyed following along as this unfolded.. I got a lot out of it and really enjoyed it myself..


Take care,
al

[pcsb23]

Al, enjoyed it immensley. Eagerly awaiting the next!

[brewmaster15]

Any one remember this thread?:) I need to dig out the movies...The old links to all the clips are gone now...but I was talking witha friend about this experiment and wanted to give them the link. ..unfortunately Now I need to put a bit more work into it..

-al

[Disgirl]

Wow what a great story Al.! I had to read to the end , all 8 pages, to find out what finally happened. What did you ever do with all of them? Happen again? I would love to see some of the pictures/video! Thanks for reposting this story.
Barb:)

[brewmaster15]

found a couple clips..

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/th_pr6_mpg.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/?action=view&current=pr6_mpg.flv)


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/th_pr5_mpg.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/?action=view&current=pr5_mpg.flv)


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/th_pr3_mpg.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/?action=view&current=pr3_mpg.flv)



http://vid96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/th_10_14_06_01.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/?action=view&current=10_14_06_01.flv)


http://vid96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/th_10_14_06_02.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/?action=view&current=10_14_06_02.flv)


http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/th_10_14_06_04.jpg (http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l199/brewmaster15/?action=view&current=10_14_06_04.flv)

[brewmaster15]

Wow what a great story Al.! I had to read to the end , all 8 pages, to find out what finally happened. What did you ever do with all of them? Happen again? I would love to see some of the pictures/video! Thanks for reposting this story.
Barb:)

Hi Barb,
Actually I still have that line of angels going... My son's breeding them now....after many many generations..I think its safe to say the angels were not adversely affected by the relationship with their foster parents.:):)

-al

[LizStreithorst]

This thread is my favorite of all the treads I've read on Simply. I've been around almost since the start so I've read a lot of threads. If anyone here hasn't seen it he needs to take a look. It's cooler than grits.

[TURQ64]

I just sold a large group of Angels raised by Stendkers....It was a great time watching...

[Jeff O]

Glad that I got a chance to read this one! Really great Thread! :)
-Jeff

[joeandmeagan]

That was a great thread! Thanks Al!

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, anyway to restore the video links? Very cool thread.

[warblad79]

Very nice to watch

[MostlyDiscus]

The IOC may be giving you a call. I think discus milk is on the banned substance list.
Awesome video Al. Just wondering if you supplemented from day one or just started out with bbs when the babies were big enough?
Ed

[brewmaster15]

Hi Ed,
When I raise my angel fry, I feed them their first day or 2 a special "proprietary" and top secret formula. :) .then I switch them to live BBS...so yes...I did suppliment them from day one on free swimming.


Pat... i can try I have all the vids documented in DVDs...just need to spend some time re-posting it all.

-al

[camuth8]

Wow! This is one of the best threads I've ever seen on Simply!:D

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, that is a work but if you have a cold, snowy afternoon...:o

[Alexei]

Thank you for this subject. I was looking for it on Google and I am happy that I found it. I have some angels eggs in teh tank with a pair of Discuses. Let's see what will happen

[brewmaster15]

I've got to dig up the Vids and repost them of this....

al

[Miss_Fish]

Did the discus pair spawn after raising the angel fry? I was curious if raising a batch of fry encourage them to breed.

[brewmaster15]

I'm Going to repost a bunch of stuff here... I maybe able to go back and insert the vids in the thread based on the dates but Thats a project for another day...

Some pics... The pair of Discus with angelfish eggs
http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/DSCN18182_zpsf6dc9d49.jpg (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Snakebyte2/media/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/DSCN18182_zpsf6dc9d49.jpg.html)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/DSCN1825_zps896980cc.jpg (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Snakebyte2/media/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/DSCN1825_zps896980cc.jpg.html)


Hows this for a cone of angel fry!!!

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/DSCN1827_zps30c8d1b2.jpg


These are Videos so please click on the image to access the Videos!

10/5/2006


http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_Pr_10_5_06_zpsvcb1nalg.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/Pr_10_5_06_zpsvcb1nalg.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_Pr_10_5_06a_zpse11xbzqs.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/Pr_10_5_06a_zpse11xbzqs.mp4)

[brewmaster15]

These are Videos so please click on the image to access the Videos!


10/9/2006


http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry1mpg_zpsne51q2jz.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry1mpg_zpsne51q2jz.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry2mpg_zpsd678tl5i.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry2mpg_zpsd678tl5i.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry5mpg_zpsxu20odss.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry5mpg_zpsxu20odss.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry4mpg_zps620jdahc.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry4mpg_zps620jdahc.mp4)


http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry3mpg_zpszyi7hkdg.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry3mpg_zpszyi7hkdg.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry16mpg_zpsb77nmowe.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry16mpg_zpsb77nmowe.mp4)


http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry17mpg_zpswbdjk2uz.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry17mpg_zpswbdjk2uz.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry18mpg_zps8epholja.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry18mpg_zps8epholja.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry10mpg_zpshdi22obv.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry10mpg_zpshdi22obv.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry8mpg_zps1amsrval.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry8mpg_zps1amsrval.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_9_fry13mpg_zps6lvacyg5.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_9_fry13mpg_zps6lvacyg5.mp4)

[brewmaster15]

These are Videos so please click on the image to access the Videos!



10/14/2006

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_14_06_04_zps6nafsnju.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_14_06_04_zps6nafsnju.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_14_06_07mpg_zpsnagqvk9a.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_14_06_07mpg_zpsnagqvk9a.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_14_06_02_zps1gqmuidi.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_14_06_02_zps1gqmuidi.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_14_06_06_zpsrpqbz7rl.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_14_06_06_zpsrpqbz7rl.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_14_06_05_zpsq8iqzlar.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_14_06_05_zpsq8iqzlar.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_14_06_04_zpseezp16v5.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_14_06_04_zpseezp16v5.mp4)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/th_10_14_06_05_zpsuoavbdgr.mp4 (http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/Discus%20Fostering%20Angels/10_14_06_05_zpsuoavbdgr.mp4)

[brewmaster15]

Sorry for the Video quality...These were taken in 2006 on a camcorder, then converted from AVi format to Mpg on a pc...its pretty lossy going from 20-30 mbs to 1mb or less!

[brewmaster15]

oh and as for what happened to all the angels...

Not 100 hundred percent sure these are them... but it was something like this...

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/angel017_zps9ba67fd3.jpg (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Snakebyte2/media/angel017_zps9ba67fd3.jpg.html)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/angel018_zps1dbd7ed1.jpg (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Snakebyte2/media/angel018_zps1dbd7ed1.jpg.html)

http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s623/Snakebyte2/angel016_zpsad7716d4.jpg (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Snakebyte2/media/angel016_zpsad7716d4.jpg.html)

[Second Hand Pat]

That pretty cool Al, talk about using a fish instincts :D in the fry rearing department.

[seiya4711]

Thanks Brew for Digging this up and reposting the vids....very cool experiments!Discus raising angel fry...amazing!
Ryuho

[Rudustin]

Al, This is such a fascinating thread!!! Amazing experiment! Wonderful to read and watch. Thanks for sharing this. Rufus

[brewmaster15]

Thanks guys,
Doing these kinds of experiments is whats kept me in the hobby so long... theres always room for playing around and learning more!

-al

[brewmaster15]

Did the discus pair spawn after raising the angel fry? I was curious if raising a batch of fry encourage them to breed.

Missed this one, sorry!

I honestly don't remember! I kept those pairs awhile after, but I had some many fish and I was so blown away by the pairs raising the fry that I lost track of what I was breeding at the time.:(

-al

[rickztahone]

That is very interesting Al. TFS

[Miss_Fish]

Missed this one, sorry!

I honestly don't remember! I kept those pairs awhile after, but I had some many fish and I was so blown away by the pairs raising the fry that I lost track of what I was breeding at the time.:(

-al
Thanks for sharing :)

[disckaroo]

absolutely incredible

[fishguy456]

All I can say is wow! very cool experiment