Help... Injury and Popeye

[poconogal]

Last night I noticed one of my Discus has popeye, one eye only. I know that he took several shots in the eye area from my female BD, who spawned this past Friday and wanted him away from the eggs, so I'm inclined to think it is due to injury. He is active, his color is vibrant, eyes are clear, I see no bubbles in or around the eye, and he is eating like a chow hound. No ammonia, no nitrite, 5 ppm nitrate, temp 83, PH 7.6. I started him on oxytetracycline flakes last night just in case, but what else would you recommend? My hosp tank is presently my QT tank holding my new Stendker Blue PB.

[Kindredspirit]

aww..Connie! Sorry to hear that he has popeye! I had my Goby with popeye a few weeks back and I hit the tank with Fungus Clear ..the Tank Buddies from Jungle~ it was gone in two days:)

I do not know about Discus tho ~ we call this Goby "PopEye" now!

Hey you always keep your temp at 83? I keep mine between 85-87....I am sure you have a method to your madness! You are one of the most knowledgeable people I know in this hobby:D

Let me know how he is doing~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_1_228.gif

[pcsb23]

Hi Connie, I suspect you are correct if your female BD was keeping him away. It sounds more like injury too. I would have just made sure the water quality was high and not treated with anything. I may have added some acriflavine to the water at a drop per gallon. If he is still getting stick from the female BD put an eggcrate divider in thet ank to give him some peace. If its an injury and the eye hasn't prolapsed you should see recovery in a few days, in a week or two it should be back to normal.

hth,

[poconogal]

Hi Connie, I suspect you are correct if your female BD was keeping him away. It sounds more like injury too. I would have just made sure the water quality was high and not treated with anything. I may have added some acriflavine to the water at a drop per gallon. If he is still getting stick from the female BD put an eggcrate divider in thet ank to give him some peace. If its an injury and the eye hasn't prolapsed you should see recovery in a few days, in a week or two it should be back to normal.

hth,

Paul! How are you feeling today? I hope you're not too sore, but I know you're bound to be somewhat. Did your night bottle do you good? And, did you take a salt bath until you rolled? Seriously, did you ever go to the doctor or hospital? I hope so. :)

Re the popeye, I saw the BD punch him in the eye area several times. This is not her mate, this is another Discus in the tank. Her mate she loves... thank goodness...

Prolapsed? I don't remember what that is...

This Discus kept coming over to the love birds side of the tank. The others stayed away, but he is very tenacious. This BD is pretty aggressive and does have a nasty habit of punching other Discus in their eyes. A few times I've flinched and said "ouch, right in her eye" when I've seen the BD in action.

And this is why I did not want ANY spawning in that tank :mad: ;)

[pcsb23]

Paul! How are you feeling today? I hope you're not too sore, but I know you're bound to be somewhat. Did your night bottle do you good? And, did you take a salt bath until you rolled? Seriously, did you ever go to the doctor or hospital? I hope so. :)

Saw the works doc, she gave me the all clear.



Re the popeye, I saw the BD punch him in the eye area several times. This is not her mate, this is another Discus in the tank. Her mate she loves... thank goodness...

Is it still getting bashed?



Prolapsed? I don't remember what that is...
Sorry, it means popped out or pushed out of place, usually completely.



This Discus kept coming over to the love birds side of the tank. The others stayed away, but he is very tenacious. This BD is pretty aggressive and does have a nasty habit of punching other Discus in their eyes. A few times I've flinched and said "ouch, right in her eye" when I've seen the BD in action.

And this is why I did not want ANY spawning in that tank :mad: ;)
Its a dominance thing, trying to get in on the act, the spawning discus will put themselves in harms way repeatedly, amazing really.

Likelehood is they may well spawn again in a week or so, often happens that way once they start. An egg crate divider may ensure no further damage is done.

[poconogal]

Saw the works doc, she gave me the all clear.

Is it still getting bashed?

Sorry, it means popped out or pushed out of place, usually completely.

Likelehood is they may well spawn again in a week or so, often happens that way once they start. An egg crate divider may ensure no further damage is done.
All except her mate get bashed by this BD, but the bashing has gotten much less than it had been. Before the spawning and now its just the normal stuff, since eggs are gone.

The eye is popped out some, but I don't think completely. I can see a ring of white around it, though. Is that prolapsed?

This Saturday I plan on getting everyone into the new 75g and they will have lots of room. Hopefully that will alleviate some of the aggression. I think I'll get a divider just in case though.

You mentioned acriflavine - I don't have any. Would you put anything else in, instead? Nothing's added to my water by me or anyone else. It's my private well.

[lhforbes12]

Normally I would agree 100% with Paul, but you hadn't mentioned the white around the eye when he posted. I would use a topical anti-biotic now, or salt. It sounds as though it has caught something. Of course it may just be that since she was hitting him there the slime coat is now missing. Hard to tell without a photo.

[poconogal]

Normally I would agree 100% with Paul, but you hadn't mentioned the white around the eye when he posted. I would use a topical anti-biotic now, or salt. It sounds as though it has caught something. Of course it may just be that since she was hitting him there the slime coat is now missing. Hard to tell without a photo.
As usual, its the very same BD that is always a pain. Piggy eating and bloating, aggressive, in the beginning would only eat in the corner for a month... boy, it's always her!

I'm a little worried that it was due to an injury and may now be developing into something else. She did land some good blows to his eye area. The white just looks like the inner "skin" around the eye that is not normally showing, because the eye is now out further than normal.

I thought of salt - means I should remove the plants, right? How about the BNs, are they salt sensitive? I have 1 Cory, I've had 1 tbsp. salt per 10 gals. in with him and he was fine. Think that's enough salt or should I up it to 2 tbs. per 10??

He's eating very well, and he will eat the antibiotic flake. I don't think I have any topical antibiotic, which means I'd have to net him, put him on and cover him with a wet towel and put meds around his eye... eeeeekk!

In place of acriflavine, what else can I use in the water? I have MarOxy, I have snake oils (melafix, pimafix), I have Stress Guard, which is an antiseptic for fish that were handled or transported and sustain minor injuries... hmmm... that may be good, along with tetracycline flakes.

See, no more spawning, no more spawning...

[pcsb23]

Connie, I just threw away the last post, clicked on the wrong bit, damned finger trouble :)

I'm not a fan of melafix or primafix, some swear by them, and some at them! You will need to remove the plants if you salt the tank. BN's should be fine with salt, but watch them just in case. The eye socket is white on a discus, steve posted a photo of his one eyed discus and you can see the socket there

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//photo-gallery/53611-one-eye.html

Last time I looked at stree guard it was primarily aloe vera, salt would be better, maroxy if memory serves use a redox reaction to nukebugs, so may be a good alternative, again I've not used it. I like acriflavine as its cheap and effective and can be used in planted tanks at 1 drop a gallon. Of the meds you've got I'd guess maroxy would be the obne to go for.

As you can see the white it sounds like the eye is a fair bit out, hopefully it will heal and be good as before but it may not, sorry to seem pessimistic.

I have had discus with behavioural problems before, if moving them around the tanks didn't adjust their attitude I got rid. I had one marlborough that was so bad I couldn't keep it with any other discus, it just beat up on them constantly, I tried in 8 different tanks, mixing up some 30 odd discus. It was just plain bad. It had to go (and I didn't sell it).

[lhforbes12]

I tablespoon salt per 10 gallons should be fine, and it really should not effect your plants at that strength. You have mainly hardy plants which can take a bit of "abuse". I would only keep the salt in for a few days in any case though. I agree with Paul, if you are that concerned use Maroxy 2 instead. Personally I would either use the salt for a few days or, more likely, extra wc's instead. You are really the best judge since you can see the fish, we can't. To my mind either the salt or antibiotic are mainly to insure the fish doesn't get anything.

[TRAKURT]

Here is what I would do. Use maracyn 2 its a good medication for internal problems. Medicated store bought foods don't seem to work to well. Good luck.

[poconogal]

Well, the eye was not any worse when I got home last night. I fed him some more tetracycline flakes and put Stress Guard into the tank. This morning I wanted to feed him some more tetracycline flakes (dosage is supposed to be 2x a day), but he doesn't want to eat at 4:30 in the morning, just wants to sleep. (Me too).

From what I could see, it looked as if the eye may have been a slight bit better this morning. I'll see how it looks tonight and proceed from there. I am even more concerned now, though, as I saw him darken and then lighten last night, which leads me to believe that he definitely has something brewing now, and I'm thinking possible bacterial infection. If so, I will be using the Maracyns. I used them years ago with no effect on my bio filter and very good results.

Paul, I think you're thinking of Stress Coat by Aquarium Pharm. That's the stuff with aloe vera. I used Stress Guard by Sea Chem, no aloe vera in it and it is an antiseptic. :)

[pcsb23]

Paul, I think you're thinking of Stress Coat by Aquarium Pharm. That's the stuff with aloe vera. I used Stress Guard by Sea Chem, no aloe vera in it and it is an antiseptic. :)
Yes I think I was oops :o

[steve.ryall]

Paul, funny that you refered to my One Eyed fish. I used to think he had some sort of pop eye problem, but I soon realised that it was just the fact that because he only had one eye, he uses it far more to look around. This I think has beefed up his eye muscles to the point where they make it stick out some. :D

Steve

[poconogal]

The eye has not gotten any worse, so far. I will continue feeding tetracycline flakes and after having received several PMs from people who have used snake oil, (Larry's term) ooops, I mean Melafix for Popeye with excellent results, and having read the same thing on other forums, I have added... yep, I've added Melafix to my tank (Larry, be quiet :D ) and I'll see what it does. I want to try other remedies before I resort to dosing the tank with antibiotics.

I did notice him darken again last night, but it was when the BD came near him (any wonder??) He is eating very well, with much gusto, and does not act at all like a sick fish.

[pcsb23]

Connie, sounds more and more like it was caused by fighting. 'fraid I'm with Larry on snake oil, but if it works then I'll be quiet too :)

[poconogal]

Connie, sounds more and more like it was caused by fighting. 'fraid I'm with Larry on snake oil, but if it works then I'll be quiet too :)

Time will tell, Paul, time will tell ;) I figured since its not any worse, I have nothing to lose. If it starts to worsen, I'll have to take another course. Oh, the lovebirds (lovefish??) were cleaning the leaf again last night... sigh...

[pcsb23]

Time will tell, Paul, time will tell ;) I figured since its not any worse, I have nothing to lose. If it starts to worsen, I'll have to take another course. Oh, the lovebirds (lovefish??) were cleaning the leaf again last night... sigh...
Hopefully all will be well.

As for the lovebirds, why not pull the leaf they were cleaning? it may confuse them and defer it, or they may just do it somewhere else...

[poconogal]

Hopefully all will be well.

As for the lovebirds, why not pull the leaf they were cleaning? it may confuse them and defer it, or they may just do it somewhere else...

I actually thought of that, then decided to leave it, as it is in the very corner of the tank and allows the others lots of roaming room in the rest of the tank. Its just Mr. Stubborn that keeps going over there... and for that, he got a shiner! I'm thinking of renaming him from Scribble to George, after George Foreman, the famous former world heavyweight boxing champion!

[Graham]

Hi Connie, I'm with Larry and Paul here...I wouldn't give you 10 cents for a whole case of the stuff. There are lots of reports of both fix's being gill irritants and having very little affect of anything bacterial until after some decent antibiotics have been used.



If you feel that it's bacterial then used the TC flakes..... meds are 100% better in the fish than in the water column. The salt will help a bit with external problems.

Pop eye is a build up of fliuds behind the eye for one reason or another and external meds and snake oils are not going to get at the problem.

G

[poconogal]

G - I just had so many people say that Melafix worked very well for them for popeye that I decided to try it. I haven't noticed any signs of irritation from the Discus at all.

When I got home from work tonight, I checked his eye and found that it is vastly improved since last night, and is looking almost normal. Since he's only gotten the TC flakes twice, and only once a day each time instead of the recommended dosage of 2x per day (he won't eat at 4:30 a.m.), I have to say that I believe the Melafix is definitely helping, at least some. Whatever it is, though, I'm just relieved to see some improvement.

[Graham]

Connie Glad to hear that he's getting better....but lets look at it another way...the fix's are oil based and are at best topicals. A fish isn't capable of absorbing oils. So if the eye was damaged from the outside, then the melafix may have helped.

If it was popeye, then that's a build up of fluids behind the eye. This is generally the result of a major truma, ocular parasites, gas bubble, ammonia or more likely a bacterial problem affecting the whole fish.

The best defense a fish has against anything is it's own immune systen...............since your fish wasn't all that ''sick'' and still eating and in good water, then it's own immune systen was probably running at maxinium.

The small shot of TC antibiotic that he got was probably all it needed, along with it's own immune system to ''fix'' whatever the problem was.

I've seen very few situations where mela or prima actually did anything major...when the whole story comes out, the hobbyist usually has thrown anything and everything into the tank and has no idea what really ''fixed'' the problem.

Anyway glad to hear that he's on the mend

Graham