Breeding Pairs from the Wattley Hatchery. Please show your breeder pics as well :) [Archive]

wood

10-22-2006, 10:44 PM

OK. I said that I would take a bunch of pictures when I visited the Wattley Hatchery this weekend. I visited today, Sunday, and took a lot of pictures of breeding pairs. I did not post multiple pictures of the same pair. Every picture is a different pair.

I am posting these pictures just for everyone to enjoy cool pictures of breeding pairs. Please, I know the last thread I posted Wattley pictures in turned into a thread that had nothing to do with pictures but rather debate and opinions. I would really like for this thread to just be about pictures, please!

Please feel free to post pictures of breeding pairs that you have. I think that pictures of the breeders are AWESOME. They are the reason why we have this hobby.

Let's just enjoy the pictures as this is the "Photo Gallery" section of the forum.

Please, no debate :)

Now for the pictures...........

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5617/0033kt3.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4488/01111ik1.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/88/01212qf8.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4930/01313we3.jpg

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5263/01515mw2.jpg

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9665/01616qi7.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5398/01717io0.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/921/02121sz3.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2960/02222qi3.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7711/02323jy7.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5843/02424tx4.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/9011/02525of8.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7383/02828dt2.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4431/03131re8.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4946/03636th0.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/6228/02727lu6.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7382/03030cf5.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7120/03232zm4.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2288/03737fz8.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3388/02929bn0.jpg

THAT ALL FOLKS........ LETS SEE SOME OF YOUR BREEDER PICTURES!

TRAKURT

10-22-2006, 11:32 PM

Do you work for Gabe?

Jeff

10-23-2006, 01:24 AM

I look forward to seeing them. I have a lot of respect for Jack and what he has done for this hobby.

wood

10-23-2006, 11:14 AM

Do you work for Gabe?

Pictures. I am a Paralegal, I am not in the discus business. I love going to the hatchery and seeing the breeders and taking pictures of them. I hope you enjoy the pictures. Pictures, pictures.

Enjoy the PICTURES. Oh, almost forgot, I like pictures of breeders. Let's keep this thread that way, and keep the "opinions out" :) Pictures. Pictures...

AADiscus

10-23-2006, 11:33 AM

Thank you for posting the pictures. I know that 1977 has some fish from Whattley. Maybe he will post his breeders for ya. :)

brewmaster15

10-23-2006, 11:42 AM

Hi Wood,
I just sent you a PM .:)

-al

Fern

10-23-2006, 11:56 AM

Thank you for the pictures, very nice. I also visited the location in Miami in the mid 90's, which was a dream come true. I made arrangements with Jack, that Gabe would meet up with me there. I drove from Orlando to Miami then back and spend 30 fast minutes looking, total of 4 hours on the road and it was worth it. It was funny in the airport when I told security that I had a bag of fish and I asked if I could walk through the metal detector with them and they were amazed. Can't do that anymore, good old days.

Thank you for sharing

Greg Richardson

10-23-2006, 12:17 PM

To start a thread stating no opinions is what another person tried a while back.
That didn't fly with me then and it doesn't fly now.

I'm no expert on Wattley fish but did he breed pepper fish on purpose if he didn't have to once he got the pepper out?
Would he now?

I love pictures of breeders also but breeding pepper is not a responsible action one would do if they love and respect the hobby.

I find it hard to believe that is what is going on there.
If I'm wrong so be it and I apologize.

To associate that though with the Wattley name imo is total disrespect for the man.

That is what upsets me.

April

10-23-2006, 12:59 PM

wheres the fry on their sides? thats what i like to see..parents herding fry around.
why were all the hydro sponges off their air supply and off their bases? just curious.

SE Billy

10-23-2006, 01:02 PM

I'm relatively new here and I love looking at pictures and all but if these are truly breeding pairs...where is the fry? Or the eggs for that matter? :confused:

hexed

10-23-2006, 01:36 PM

April,
Wood might have gone when he was starting a water change. I take all my sponge filters apart before I clean the tanks. After I rinse them I put them into a bucket but if I get company I drop them back into the tanks just like you see in the pics. I also turn off the air so the crap settles on the bottom of the tank too, usually takes about 20-30 minutes for everything to settle. It is much easier to clean the tank when the crap settles.
Frank

wood

10-23-2006, 01:36 PM

wheres the fry on their sides? thats what i like to see..parents herding fry around.
why were all the hydro sponges off their air supply and off their bases? just curious.

Wow, thats a good question. I am not experienced at all in breeding so I didn't even notice that when I was there. I was wondering where all the fry were. Perhaps it is the same reason why there aren't any fry. Maybe he is cleaning the piping or something? Can anyone here with experience in a hatchery explain why all of the sponges seem to be off?

hexed

10-23-2006, 01:54 PM

I did give my opinion as to why the filters can be apart, look up LOL!

Ryan

10-23-2006, 02:24 PM

Well, if you look in the bottom right corner of the last picture, the pedestal for that sponge filter is growing algae. That tells me that the sponge has been off of it for quite some time... if it were properly snapped together, no algae should really grow there. It never has on mine. So that kinda puts the cleaning the sponges theory out the window.

Maybe they don't use them anymore if they are doing large daily w/c?

Kindredspirit

10-23-2006, 03:28 PM

It is much easier to clean the tank when the crap settles.
Frank

...but those tanks are not clean IMO ~ and there are no fry? Oh...wait ~ this thread is only on Breeding Pairs....but those discus do not look very .......vibrant and happy....? .....for a lack of a better word:o

But there shld be some yes? How are people getting so many discus then? Shld there not be fry continuously at the rate people seem to pop up with them? Or no?

I am confused ~

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

Timbo

10-23-2006, 03:32 PM

20 pairs and not one have fry? or eggs? or anything?

what are the odds? did you see any young-ens anywhere in the hatchery?

White Worm

10-23-2006, 03:33 PM

I'm thinking cleanliness is not a priority in this instance :o I cant even say nice pics. I am no expert but.....dirty tanks? Breeder quality? No Fry? Eggs????????

One thing I did notice is on some of those tanks, there looks to be a larger diameter pvc covering the smaller tube? Maybe covering eggs? It looks like in one of the pics, a discus is very interested in getting behind the larger pvc.

TRAKURT

10-23-2006, 03:41 PM

This is a big pile of BS. Where are the fry or eggs .

hexed

10-23-2006, 03:42 PM

Ryan,
I didn't look at all the pics, just the first ones :(
I guess my reason was wrong on this thread LMAO! I have no clue then why he doesn't have them connected :confused:

TRAKURT

10-23-2006, 03:46 PM

If you look closely in some of the pics you will see Plecos with the so called breeding pairs. LOL LOL LOL

White Worm

10-23-2006, 03:51 PM

I guess the whole comment thing is out the window. Dont you need hatching to call it a hatchery?

wood

10-23-2006, 03:54 PM

If you look closely in some of the pics you will see Plecos with the so called breeding pairs. LOL LOL LOL

I thought you could have plecos with discus breeders?

HAH, I guess my attempts at getting a breeder thread going without debate was naive :) I am not agreeing/disagreeing with what anyone in here is saying. I simply visited, took pictures, left. As far as why there aren't fry, babies, etc. I don't know. I am not a breeder at all, I am starting my first discus tank in about a month. I only visit the Wattley Hatchery because it is the only one I know of in Miami, and the name. The LFS's don't really carry discus and if they do they are not in good shape at all.

Does anyone have awesome pictures of really nice breeders? Say, to compare to the ones I posted? Everyone says the pictures of the ones I posted are not that good, I would like to see what the "good ones" are because I have only seen these.

White Worm

10-23-2006, 04:00 PM

look in the breeder section or through the photo threads. It shouldnt be hard to find nicer quality rather quickly.

Squiggy

10-23-2006, 04:03 PM

I remember the good ol' days when you could call and Jack or his wife would answer the phone....I don't think Jack would like that a few of those pairs are carrying his name....
Things change...I guess....

Joe

TRAKURT

10-23-2006, 04:30 PM

some of those fish look awful.

wood

10-23-2006, 04:58 PM

Obviously I am new here. I am going to be doing a lot more reading for a while. No more posts for a bit. :)

I have been disillusioned.

brewmaster15

10-23-2006, 05:08 PM

All,
I just got off the phone with Wood. Basically he's really new to Discus ( as in hasn't had them, but wants them, and when he walked into wattleys...he was star struck by the wattley name and hatchery..... He doesn't work for Gabe, and isn't trying to argue with anyone... he's just wanted to share photos of the hatchery...

He learned alot from this thread and the other one.. I got a feeling some stendker's scribbles from Discusdave or Jacks Taylor's passions are in his future, and maybe a planted tank.

Anyhow... I just wanted to add my two cents here.. sometimes things written come across as different then if you take the time to talk to someone.:)

-al

ps..Kurt...
some of those fish look awful.
I agree 100% !

White Worm

10-23-2006, 05:13 PM

Wood, you shouldnt take this as a direct reflection or attack on you. If you are who you say you are, this isnt any of your fault and you just havent been told the whole story. As soon as you do some further research and look through many pictures of quality breeders with fry, you will see what everyone is talking about. Pepper, shape, size, (quality), etc. Cleanliness is also important for fry and those tanks......well :( ..... I have seen some breeders with fry and in comparison, some of these would have been culls, let alone breeders. Look at Kenny's photos. International Discus here on simply. I have seen his carry fry with my own eyes. Nice quality fry and pairs! Matter of fact, I have nearly 20 discus from him and very nice.

kaceyo

10-23-2006, 05:29 PM

Wood,
Please don't take the reaction to your pics personaly. You kind of inadvertantly jumped into a situation that has been stirring around in peoples minds for quite some time. Actually you did very well in bringing these fish to everyones attention. Those fish are an injustice to Jacks good name IMO and should not be represented as being Wattley discus at all.
BTW, I can pretty much gaurentee you that if you start a thread with a request that people not reply with opinions that are off topic, you will get a landslide of opinions about everything discus, and, maybe, a couple on topic ones too.

Kacey

Greg Richardson

10-23-2006, 06:45 PM

If you look closely in some of the pics you will see Plecos with the so called breeding pairs. LOL LOL LOL

Some breeders do use BN's in their breeder tanks.
I learned that from a breeder I respect Jimmy L. who has them. He gave me good advice in regards to using them. I watched with mine and no problems at all.

TRAKURT

10-23-2006, 07:04 PM

I had a bad experience with plecos with my breeders. If I was breeding discus for quantity Why risk it.

DISCUS USA

10-23-2006, 07:56 PM

Wood you didnt happen to take pics of the 2-4 inch range of discus in stock did ya??

Greg Richardson

10-23-2006, 07:58 PM

Risk Factor.............. As with most things that is involved it is there.
So one needs to think of what level their risk to reward ratio works for them?

They help to keep your tank clean which of course as you know helps keep them healthy. I sure wouldn't keep regular plecos. Only BN and only the smallest ones is what I use.

That intimidation factor works well plus smaller ones clean better.

Sure, I believe some day I may lose a spawn or partial. But I'd much rather risk that then run into flukes or some other disease. Lot of us have to work so keeping a BN in the tank helps while we are away.

Bainbridge Mike

10-23-2006, 09:33 PM

Obviously I am new here. I am going to be doing a lot more reading for a while. No more posts for a bit. :)

I have been disillusioned.

Hey Wood:

I understand your excitement and I hope your experience with the hatchery (and response to the photos) does not dampen your enthusiasm. Let us know when you find some discus and we will give you whatever guidance we can to help you select good healthy fish!

Mike

LizStreithorst

10-23-2006, 10:31 PM

Some breeders do use BN's in their breeder tanks.
I learned that from a breeder I respect Jimmy L. who has them. He gave me good advice in regards to using them. I watched with mine and no problems at all.

I've always had them in with my pairs. And When I start feeding BBS heavily, I'll put in a mystery snail to clean up, too. No problems to date.

Greg Richardson

10-24-2006, 12:34 AM

TRAKURT

10-24-2006, 01:07 AM

jeep

10-24-2006, 01:41 AM

Welcome to the hobby, Wood...

Greg Richardson

10-24-2006, 02:52 AM

How can a dirty tank give your fish Flukes? HMMMM

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/flukes.htm

Cause and reproduction of flukes

It is generally agreed that heavy fluke infestations affecting more than one fish are usually caused by overcrowding, poor water quality or polluted water - that is water with a high organic content and stress. Under ideal circumstances, these parasites can rapidly multiply.

So if you have BN's or in Liz case she goes a step farther with a mystery snail also helping eat up the Brine Shrimp or other food down the road that doesn't get eaten you have helped your fry from flukes and other diseases.

brewmaster15

10-24-2006, 04:49 AM

Hi Greg,
I generally agree with that statement

It is generally agreed that heavy fluke infestations affecting more than one fish are usually caused by overcrowding, poor water quality or polluted water - that is water with a high organic content and stress. Under ideal circumstances, these parasites can rapidly multiply.

But from the point of view that all those factors , if present really mean one thing... not enough water changes.. Water changes are probably of more value than anything else in affecting fluke levels..

Clean fresh water will boost a fishes immune system, the conditions above will suppress it, allowing parasites like flukes to thrive.

There are points in a fluke life cycle when its in the water column.... a water change will remove those...

The BN pleco...may help as well...by grazing along the tank surfaces...It probably eats any fluke eggs it stumbles across.. (snails as well) .but I think the same would be accomplished with a paper towel or brush as for wipe down, followed by wc ..Its all a matter of opinion... I use BN plecos in some group tanks...I don't in any of my breeders for the simple reason.. at night if you turn off the lights eggs are unprotected...so if you do use BNs... leave a light on night. It doesn't mean all BN's will eat eggs...but I don't see a reason to risk it myself..

oh and believe it or not... algae on a tank wall isn't necessarily a bad thing.. Its an eye soar... but we obsess over our sparkling clean tank walls..again its a choice.

-al

DarkDiscus

10-24-2006, 10:31 AM

I'm pretty sure that this thread was not originally about flukes.

I have been to Wattley's myself and it is a very cool place. When I was there it was the dead of summer and I went with Jerry Baer (Yogi here on the site) and had a very good time.

At the time there were something like 30 breeding pairs along one wall and six had eggs or fry, despite the fact it was REALLY hot and Gabe mentioned that the fish tended to stop breeding at super high temperatures.

Also, Wattley was one of the pioneers in artificially raising fry and I BELIEVE that they still practice some of that at the hatchery. Possibly one other reason that we don't see fry/eggs.

LizStreithorst

10-24-2006, 10:57 AM

Liz. Do you know how high of a temperature can those mystery snails take if I was to have one in a non breeder tank when I needed to up the temp for a problem?

Thanks for that tip for the breeder tank with a snail. My work schedule is never the same which means I need all the help I can get when I have fry.

Greg, I have been told that temp. is immaterial to them. I've taken them from an unheated tank in my fish room where they were breeding and dumped them into a Discus tank with a temp of 86 without a problem.

jeep

10-24-2006, 11:08 AM

Also, Wattley was one of the pioneers in artificially raising fry and I BELIEVE that they still practice some of that at the hatchery.

John, you are correct!!

1977

10-24-2006, 02:06 PM

Well I don't know what all Gabe is breeding but I'm breeding Lss, MR's, and blue diamonds from him, of course not with any consistency but that's another problem. I will say that when I was at the hatchery I was surprised by the condition of the tanks, they were pretty dirty and according to Gabe he only rinses out the sponge filters once in a blue moon!

brewmaster15

10-24-2006, 02:23 PM

According to one of my Jack Wattley articles...The artificial breeding was done by placing removable PVC over the pipestands... In the pictures that wood posted..I see at least one of those...

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/921/02121sz3.jpg

this alllowed them to remove the eggs for hatching.

-al

TRAKURT

10-24-2006, 03:36 PM

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/flukes.htm

Cause and reproduction of flukes

It is generally agreed that heavy fluke infestations affecting more than one fish are usually caused by overcrowding, poor water quality or polluted water - that is water with a high organic content and stress. Under ideal circumstances, these parasites can rapidly multiply.

So if you have BN's or in Liz case she goes a step farther with a mystery snail also helping eat up the Brine Shrimp or other food down the road that doesn't get eaten you have helped your fry from flukes and other diseases.

Here is a article that will better explain how Flukes enter the aquarium. http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Flukes.htm