S.O.S HELP!!!

[MaGiC]

Hi all ….i have a big problem and please I need help

On Friday I bought a PB and one day later I bought 10 Brill Turqs from a deferent store. I put them in tank that it is running for 2 years with no problems. I had a breeding pair in there and I have moved it to a new talk. Everything looked great with my new fish. I feed them blood worms and tetra bits and i do wc 30% every night. This morning ( 3 days later) something was wrong. Rapid breathing and most of them were laying down and at the corners. Sometimes they were moving on the top to breath and down at the corner again. I did a 80% wc in the morning and cleaned the ext. filter. When I came home I saw the same thing , no improvement. Gill flukes? I tried sera Tremazol that contains praziquantel 1 ml \20lit , I did a water change after 6 hours , no improvement. I have lost one . I don’t know what else to do .I was planning to leave them in peace for 3-4 days to see how they do before using any meds…I was late. Now most of them are on the top corners , horizontally , and breathing fast….please help!!!!

[greyhoundfan]

What are your water parameters. It might be out of whack.

You had tank running for 2 years.. that only had two breeding pairs in it right?? Than you added 11 Brilliant turqs and one PB to the same tank and you took out the two breeding pairs.. Leaving 12 fish total in this tank.

1. How big is this tank?
2. Was there any other fish in this tank besides the breeding pair?

At this point I'm leaning towards toxic shock. If you just had two discuses in your tank to begin with than the nitrifying bacteria will only be enough to support two discuses. When you put in 12 fish in the same tank your tank will need to be re-cycled.

Do 90% WCs and add salt or PRIME, this will detoxify your tank. Of course, this is JMO.. Good luck.

PS.. As always.. QT your fish before combining them.

[MaGiC]

Thanks for the fast reply

My tank is about 150lit and the pair i had in there were 2 PB (12 and 11 cm)
The new fish were 10 Brll Turks and 1 PB (6 cm each). I had no other fish besides the pair. I took the pair out of this tank about a week ago and the tank was running with no fish in it. I dont know if this was the problem.

Using salt , how many tsp \ lit?? and for how long??

Thanks again.

[greyhoundfan]

I believe that is your problem, two adult discuses does not produce equal amount of waste as 11 baby ones.

Use Aquarium salt 1.5 TBS per 10 Gallons.. Sorry I don't know the liter conversion. Replenish salt after every WC, you'll need to do this daily until your bioligical bacteria can catch up. Bio-Spira might help with the benificial bacteria seeding. If you have PRIME this will also detoxify your tank. Instructions on PRIME is to use one cap ful per 50 Gallons.. Sorry again.. Not good with conversions.

You will need to do this until your ammonia and nitrate levels are 0 PPM. Buy a test kit. If you already have one test your water. I'd also suggest changing your water with aged, pre-treated, aerated water.

[Graham]

Lets see you took 2 discus at 23cm/9'' out of a 150lt/40 gallon tank and a week later added 72cm/28'' of new discus back in....The odds are you OD the entire biological system of the tank.

What is the ammoina reading..............and the temp

G

Edit......... you don't need salt to fight ammonia if that is the problem and 1 teaspoon per gallon/3.78 liters will protect the fish from any nitrite

[Polar_Bear]

I suspect that Graham is correct, you probably have both an NH3, and NO2 problem. It also sounds as though you don't have enough surface movement and your water column lacks enough O2. That is far too many discus in that size tank btw. What is your water temperature?
Hopefully since you didn't QT your fish they will be OK, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Bainbridge Mike]

ok, I'll try to make a helpful suggestion. Please test for ammonia right away. This will tell you whether or not you overloaded the biofilter in the tank as everyone suspects. If you do have ammonia and/or high nitrites, do you have an extra filter from another tank that you could add to this tank or can you redistribute the fish to other tanks to decrease the bioload?

Good luck,
Mike

[MaGiC]

My water parameters are :

Temp 29 dCels
Ph 7+
kH 3+
NO2 < 0,1 mg/l
NO3 0mg /l
Ammonia 0mg/l
(using sera tests)

iam using an eheim ext filter and a spong filter. I think there is enought water movement.

I called today the lfs from where I bought the first fish on Friday and he told me that yesterday all his discus had the same symptoms and today they were all dead. I don’t know if this is a coincidence or it was just my mistake.

8 fish left , half of them are doing better and the other half are in the same condition.

[Graham]

That's no coincidence, if NH3 isn't the problem and the guys you got them from has a pile of dead fish, then it's parasites. It takes time and a pile of flukes to kill a fish, so doubtful that it's taht...it takes costia or chilodinella very little time to kill a fish.

Personally I would be hitting that tank with a shot of Quick Cure or some other formalin/malachite green based product. real quick.............Add the med, crank the temp, up the O2 and then go see the LFS guy for some new fish or your $$ back

G

[Harriett]

I totally agree with Graham and the other suspicious aspect to this story is that things didn't go south for 3 days; the rule of thumb as I have experienced it is that it takes about 3 days to incubate most kinds of 'bug' and then you see it clinically manifest in the fish. I always count three days as the hump to get past when bringing in new fish or combining tanks of fish after QT--if they make it past, to 4-5 days, I am pretty sure I'm ok. Cary taught me to watch for that years ago.
Hope this helps,
Harriett

[MaGiC]

Well i don’t think i can get my money back. They will tell me that it was my mistake , and maybe it was. Bought an infected fish + i was late to QT + overcrowded tank = lost many fish , more than 400 euros and my smile and sleep……well life goes on and i learn from mistakes.

Now i have some fish left . They look better but i can see mucus hyperprocuction.

The meds i have right now are
1) sera costapur ( potassium iodide 2.8mg , malachite green oxalate 105 mg)
2) sera omnipur ( 9-amino acridine hydrochloride 105mg , acriflavine chloride 600mg , ethacridine lactate 3375mg , malachite green oxalate 79mg) it says that its against skin slime.

Are these meds fine to use ? Shall i remove the ext.filter and sponge and run it to another container?
Is it better to add salt 10-15 gr \ lit for 20 mins , do a small wc and then use the med?

Thanks for the help!

[greyhoundfan]

Magic you're not alone. We've all lost $$ on discuses. I could feed a small army from the losses I suffered when I first started off. I'm sure it won't be the last. Sometimes stuff happens.

[Polar_Bear]

Magic, I would try the Sera Omnipur first. If you can get hold of a gram positive antibiotic so much the better

[Graham]

Well i don’t think i can get my money back. They will tell me that it was my mistake , and maybe it was. Bought an infected fish + i was late to QT + overcrowded tank = lost many fish , more than 400 euros and my smile and sleep……well life goes on and i learn from mistakes.

Now i have some fish left . They look better but i can see mucus hyperprocuction.

The meds i have right now are
1) sera costapur ( potassium iodide 2.8mg , malachite green oxalate 105 mg)
2) sera omnipur ( 9-amino acridine hydrochloride 105mg , acriflavine chloride 600mg , ethacridine lactate 3375mg , malachite green oxalate 79mg) it says that its against skin slime.

Are these meds fine to use ? Shall i remove the ext.filter and sponge and run it to another container?
Is it better to add salt 10-15 gr \ lit for 20 mins , do a small wc and then use the med?

Thanks for the help!

hey it's not your fault especially if they lost a pile of the same fish also. I would demanding my money back or healthy replacement fish.

I would also use the Omipur ...they have Quick Cure in Europe??

Just so you don't feel bad about the money, we all loose fish....I'm mainly in show quality Koi....try putting out $1500US on a fish then having it in the pond for about a month and having it jump up on to the rock edging and killing itself :( I was not impressed

[MaGiC]

Yes you are right...

I have used Omnipur.Iam not sure about Quick Cure , but i will ask for it.
I have looked a bit and i found this online...is this the one you are talking about?

[Graham]

Yes ..it's probably the best ''shotgun'' med there is. It's a combination of formalin and malachite green. It's capable of knocking out most external parasites and fungus, when used according to the directions.

It's not safe with all fish, especially some scaleless ones but generally speaking it's a great chem when you don't know what you trying to kill.

Ideally having a microscope and doing a scrape and scope is the way to go...it's easier to kill what you know than what you're guessing at


G