The lowly Pigeon... and its fall from greatness.?

[brewmaster15]

Isn't it funny how things change... I remember when The Pigeon Bloods first came out... They were one hot ticket.. every one wanted them... They brought a premium price...everyone was trying to breed them.. No one really looked at Peppering as a problem to be avoided... "clean Pbs " were unheard of... Petshops liked them because of the color and reported hardiness.

Checkerboards, Marlboro reds etc.. all had pepper.... no big deal.. I came across some old photos of my Pb collections and looking at the amount of Pepper...those fish would be called culls today.

Now I hear comments like..

"its only a Pigeon"
"too much pepper"
"I don't like Pbs at all"

When I see export prices...Pbs are often the cheapest.

Now unless its "clean" , crossed out to goldens etc.. few people in the hobby any amount of time will touch them.

So whats all your memories and thoughts on these fish.. All things aside...The PB introduction into the hobby, probably was a very significant development in the history of discus keeping. IMO.

-al

[steve.ryall]

I personally like pigeons, I have 3 of them at adult size, and have 99 fry right now at 14 days old. When I first kept discus the pigeon was not around, I could only get cobalts or blue diamonds and they were expensive enough form my LFS.
I can understand why in today's market that they are on the decline, there are so many different colours and strains, but the bright colours and patterns of the Pigeon are still appealing to me, as well as bagging me a winning position in the UKDA show this year.

I love them.

Steve

[poconogal]

I agree with Steve. I love them and their nice, bright colors and their robust health. When I started keeping Discus, all that was around were wilds and RTs, which were the very new, hot Discus! I guess it's just that there are so very many choices these days that some strains will become not as popular, as people move onto the newer "models." :)

[ShinShin]

I had some Asian imports when PB's were first available here and I thought they were the greatest thing going. Now, they rank only above the white diamond and all the white diamond crosses, which now falls into last place on my list. I remember PB's being sold as "dark phase" and "light phase". The dark phase had so much soot, it is unbelieable today that people bought them. They weren't cheap, either.

Mat

[Squiggy]

I've never liked PBs...As I've stated before, when they came out, they looked like burnt toast drifting around in the water. While PBs have opened the door to many beautiful color strains, they've also caused the market to be flooded with inferior fish because hobbiests are prone to allow mongrel pairings that should never happen. So much so that pepper can show up at any time because its there...right under the surface of every PB. And you may never know that your fish have PB genes until too late....:alien:

Joe

[tpl*co]

I agree with Steve. I love them and their nice, bright colors and their robust health. When I started keeping Discus, all that was around were wilds and RTs, which were the very new, hot Discus! I guess it's just that there are so very many choices these days that some strains will become not as popular, as people move onto the newer "models." :)

I agree, you can't beat a pigeon for their robust health and temperment, always in front and center. I would say they should be the number 1 starter discus. Beautiful bright colors (in all shades of orange, LOL)

Drawback is you have to watch the type of backgrounds you have with it to reduce peppering.

I think that it is a fashion craze that goes around and maybe people are looking for different shades than the hardy "orange" pigeon (yeah I know they come in other colors, but mostly orange, LOL). I think with all the new strains being developed out there, they are breeding for looks instead of hardiness and temperment, so it may still come full circle to the hardier strains when all pans out.

Tina

[Harriett]

No question that the breeding of PBs has been instrumental in the developement of a number of great strains (I'm grateful!), so they've been very useful in the hobby. I also agree with Joe's assessments. I myself do like the look of a toally CLEAN PB---I'm growing out some blue PBs from Hans right now and they are gorgeous--it makes me happy to look at them! They are some of the most gregarious good tempered robust and good eating fish (they eat well, I don't usually eat them) that I have.
Harriett

[wolfbane]

When people look at my tank, they "ooo" and "ahhh" over the cobalts, the turqs, and the LSS, but they say "what's wrong with those ones?" when they see the peppery pigeons. My daughter says they look moldy!! I have a bonded pair of golden pigeons, beautiful shape, great proportioned, but heavily peppered. They are the only pair I have in the big tank, lay every few weeks. The planted tank really brings out the pepper.

[LizStreithorst]

When thy're good, they're very very good. Look at a high quality Melon or White Butterfly....Beautiful fish! But the majority are mediocre. Face it, most Discus are of average quality. Unforunatly Pigeons have it harder. The good ones not only have to have good shape, they have to be clean, too.

[Green Country Discus]

Well said Liz! From what I have seen lately, some of the PB,s are in as much demand as the "holy grail" spots. White Butterfly's have been making quite a stir of late and in much demand. The Red Melons and Passions are here to stay and others are in demand. I am no fan of pepper but some of the modern breeders of PB's have done a remarkable job of producing some high quality Discus ;) .

[GulfCoastDiscus]

This is my lowly pigeon. These are one of my favorite. These were crossed with Goldens as well and other strain.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v721/GulfCoastDiscus/0grmIMG_06660.jpg

[Owl]

Great looking fish Daniel !!

[Marinemom]

Those are some beautiful discus.

Diane

[Patson]

Ya...very nice color and shape!

[GulfCoastDiscus]

Great looking fish Daniel !!
Thanks Bro.


Those are some beautiful discus.

Diane
Thank you Diane


Ya...very nice color and shape!

Thank you.

I also have Pigeon Snakes that I really like.

[Apistomaster]

I personally prefer wild discus but I breed what sells best and day in day out red turquoise always find buyers but I bought some discus being sold as "fire dragon" and those of you "in the know" can figure out the source although no doubt they are SE Asian in origin. The example fish advertised appears to be a pigeon blood variant but the actual fish are something else. Probably a few pigeon blood genes but very similar to some of the attempts to breed a vertically striated red turquoise x red spotted green although the red base body color has that pigeon blood orange-red look. These are as close to pigeon blood as I've ever come.
I could not understand why anyone paid good money for the peppered fish but discus free of this flaw are very eye catching and are a nice addition to the color palate available in tank raised fish. I have one friend who bought some several years ago who came close to punching me out when I made an offhand remark that most breeders were doing what they could to remove the peppering flaw from the breed. His fish were culls of the highest order by my standards but I was (I thought) only referring to the general thrust of the serious breeders' efforts, not specifically his fish. He's a collector type not a breeder type discus keeper who bought a variety of cheapest discus on that particular list and got what he paid for, mongrels all.
Trends come and go but I think the pigeon bloods are here to stay and have provided the genetic plastisity to help create many of today's beautiful color varieties. For that reason alone they will remain a breeder's resource fish and providing many a discus keeper with affordable colorful fish for their collections from just the by products of selective breeding programs.
Larry

[Elcid]

Hey Al:

Pigeons it's a LOVE/HATE relationship! kinda like Marriage. :) :) :) Damn (please pardon the swear), I bought a half a dozen of the yellow variety and they refuse to die; they live in my LSS wastewater, eat like pigs, grow so big, and now all these babies that no-one would love, I don't know why I keep them!

HTH,
Sandeep

[roclement]

I love pigeons, when they are pretty, they are gorgeous!

Rod

[terps]

I think they are still the world's most popular strain of discus. Cheap and colorful is very popular in the pet shops. The nice thing about pigeon bloods is they come in so many different color variations. You can also have stripes and stone patterns.