Those were the days!! Sigh!!!!!

[russell]

I know we all love our Discus and would never do anything detremental to introduce anything that may harm them, That water quality and stability in the system is the No 1 priority.

But sometimes I wonder if we get carried away.

I started in the mid 50's when Discus were realy still in there infancy, at least in the U.K If there was a problem I corresponded with the great man H.R.A by letter ( remember those days) and had to wait about 6 weeks for a reply to arrive. (No internet then.) You soon learnt by your mistakes!!!!! expensive ones.

Tank filtration consisted of a small box corner filter with stones in the bottom for weight, some peat/spagnum, some wool. and an airstone. The only Discus available then were Green's & Browns. how times have changed.
Spot, Stripes with spots, and any colour you want.

For years I have been trying to get back to the old original strains.
Where have they gone. Perhaps the question should be directed at the Great man himself!!! ( A contreversial subject) at one time they were plentiful now a rarity.

Times have changed & so has keeping Discus. For the better??? I often wonder.

All the gadgets and gizmo's, all dancing all singing eq't.

Discus are a lot more adaptable and tougher than we think.most are tank bred and never been anywhere near the Amazon.
Water quality & stabilty are paramount. but they can be bred in soft acid water to liquid concrete.

I vote for a campaing to BRING BACK THE OLDIES!!!!!!!!!

.

[Graham]

LOL you're dating yourself...me too since i remember what you're describing:(

[russell]

At least there are TWO of us still alive

[poconogal]

At least there are TWO of us still alive
Maybe 3... I didn't start in the 50s, but I did start with wild caught greens.

[ShinShin]

I got my first in '69 - 2 pair of wild browns. I just decided 2 weeks ago to make wilds part f my collection again. Next week they'll be here. However, I will not practice the husbandry I used then. That is one thing that I have today - knowlegde from my experiences as well as the availability of the knowledge of other's expeiences that is so available today, that will allow me to maintain a better enviroment for these wonderful fish.

Mat

[Squiggy]

Mats got me beat by a few years...but not many. Good luck with the new ones, Mat. :thumbsup:

Joe

[White Worm]

.

You soon learnt by your mistakes!!!!! expensive ones.

For years I have been trying to get back to the old original strains.
Where have they gone. Perhaps the question should be directed at the Great man himself!!! ( A contreversial subject) at one time they were plentiful now a rarity.

Times have changed & so has keeping Discus. For the better??? I often wonder.

I have obviously not been in the hobby no where near as long as most of you......heck, I wasnt even alive when some of you started.
However, being the newer generation, I think that technology, experience, internet, improvement in selection has only made this hobby better. Now, we dont have to learn from Big and expensive mistakes. I would say that we are on the way to even bigger and better in the discus keeping hobby. Now we dont have to rely on 1 or 2 "experts" or wait 6 weeks for a reply. Now it takes 5 minutes and you are all, in some way, responsible for this improvement. :D

[poconogal]

I have obviously not been in the hobby no where near as long as most of you......heck, I wasnt even alive when some of you started.
However, being the newer generation, I think that technology, experience, internet, improvement in selection has only made this hobby better. Now, we dont have to learn from Big and expensive mistakes. I would say that we are on the way to even bigger and better in the discus keeping hobby. Now we dont have to rely on 1 or 2 "experts" or wait 6 weeks for a reply. Now it takes 5 minutes and you are all, in some way, responsible for this improvement. :D
Mike, well said. It's so much better now with all of the information instantly available. When I started, there was no internet, there was nobody I could go to for any sort of help. Back then, you were on your own if it dealt with Discus, basically, except for what you could learn from a book. Now with the internet, the forums, especially SD, you have instant help at your fingertips. Having all of these resources has made keeping the Discus, IMO, much easier than it had been.

[Jessie555]

Russell, I'm probaly not as old as you :D I started somewere end 70ties.
But I think the few days (not weeks) waiting time was a good thing, now people run to the forum if they think the Discus flaps his tail different as yesterday, there is always "somebody" with an advice to trow some kind of medicine in, while if you would have wait 1 - 2 days you would have seen your Discus was okay. I think at the moment there are more Discus killed by medicine poisning as what they had (?) to begin with.

Masoten was the best gillfluke killer, headstander you had up in 3 days with chloramphenicol, Metro worked at 100-150mg/10 gallon (now you need 500 for results) etc. etc.

Wonder what days were better????

"Jessie"

[LizStreithorst]

I have obviously not been in the hobby no where near as long as most of you......heck, I wasnt even alive when some of you started.
However, being the newer generation, I think that technology, experience, internet, improvement in selection has only made this hobby better. Now, we dont have to learn from Big and expensive mistakes. I would say that we are on the way to even bigger and better in the discus keeping hobby. Now we dont have to rely on 1 or 2 "experts" or wait 6 weeks for a reply. Now it takes 5 minutes and you are all, in some way, responsible for this improvement. :D

I'm also somewhat new. But I know that what is learned from experience STICKS. I sure wish I'd been around back then. I know I'd be a more knowledgable Discus keeper if I'd learned first hand rather than by simply following directions.

[White Worm]

Russell, I'm probaly not as old as you :D I started somewere end 70ties.
But I think the few days (not weeks) waiting time was a good thing, now people run to the forum if they think the Discus flaps his tail different as yesterday, there is always "somebody" with an advice to trow some kind of medicine in, while if you would have wait 1 - 2 days you would have seen your Discus was okay. I think at the moment there are more Discus killed by medicine poisning as what they had (?) to begin with.

Masoten was the best gillfluke killer, headstander you had up in 3 days with chloramphenicol, Metro worked at 100-150mg/10 gallon (now you need 500 for results) etc. etc.

Wonder what days were better????

"Jessie"
Yes, I agree that some will worry unneccessarily but a great majority here have common experience keeping tropical fish and we all need to start somewhere. I think maybe the hype or the myth of discus being difficult to keep has something to do with it (not to mention the $$$). Good thing it only takes a minute to let them know not to worry. Unfortunately, with some of the diseases that can affect tropical fish and discus, 1-2 days could mean the difference between losing or saving all of your discus and getting discouraged or enjoying a great hobby. I think that is why many try and fail or just give up. I was there, I know others have been and if it werent for some experienced discus keepers here, there would be fewer successes. Marie went through this in May this year I think and you should see how many experienced discus keepers came in to assist and these fish made a recovery after 24 days I think. 1-2 days more (or the old days :D ) and she would be less 6 (thanks Marie) discus and possibly another discouraged keeper (but now she has decided to take it a step further into breeding). There will always be better drugs developed to combat newer and stronger bugs........I would say these days!!!!!

[White Worm]

I'm also somewhat new. But I know that what is learned from experience STICKS. I sure wish I'd been around back then. I know I'd be a more knowledgable Discus keeper if I'd learned first hand rather than by simply following directions.

There is definately something to having the experience but if you kept doing things wrong, how would you be better? What I read also STICKS especially when it comes from those who have learned from experience. I too would still have liked to be around for the beginning but I very much enjoy the benefit of those of you who have already done it.

[Kindredspirit]

I'm also somewhat new.


You are Liz? I would never have figured that ~ You seem to be quite knowledgeable IMO ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[Kindredspirit]

Marie went through this in May this year I think and you should see how many experienced discus keepers came in to assist and these fish made a recovery after 24 days I think. 1-2 days more (or the old days :D ) and she would be less 4 discus and possibly another discouraged keeper (but now she has decided to take it a step further into breeding).


Now Mike ~ I just figure they are going to spawn sooner or later ....I will just try it:) ~ oh, and it was "less 6 discus"....not four:) And you are so right when you say that so many people came to help me ~

...and I might have walked away from it all ~ had I lost them ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[White Worm]

Now Mike ~ I just figure they are going to spawn sooner or later ....I will just try it:) ~ oh, and it was "less 6 discus"....not four:) And you are so right when you say that so many people came to help me ~

...and I might have walked away from it all ~ had I lost them ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

:D "6".......Well, good, it is fun to watch the whole process (the dance and eggs) of breeding but for me, after 20-30 tries with different pairs, it is time to think about adjusting the water to move to the next step.

[ItsGeoff]

i havent been keeping these fish for more then a couple years but i remember the first heckel i saw. i was real young, prolley like 4-5 yrs old. ( so this happened about 16 years ago ). there used to be a bunch of really awesome fish stores here locally but have since closed down. ANyway - the one shop had a big poster under the counter from tetra, on the end was a picture of a heckel. i was like wow...thats a cool fish. the owner goes oh yeah i have one, come check it out. there it was. 2 of them i think, by themselves in a bare bottom tank. i was mesmerized by them pretty much instantly. then the employee told us oh those are REALLY hard to take care of, and they are 1xx dollars! my mom looks at me and goes yeah i dont think so.thusly ending my encounter with wild discus. that was until last summer when i finally found them, and i had to have them.

in short, i think that was just rambling about what i remember being the first time around i saw discus around here, atleast the wilds...

[russell]

A nice response and most refreshing to hear some of the comments. One point on the learning curve, Sure it's great to get a response from the net if you have a problem. BUT in my opinion only, how many Discus have been lost by negligent use of medication, misdiagnosis. misinterpretations of symptons??? All to often I hear I have tried this and that & it didn't work so I am trying something else. I think one sympton that goes unrecognised and misdiagnosed is simple Bacterial infection. Can cause confusion. Skin. Gill Finnage can all be diagnosed as Parasitical ,Flukes, fin rot,etc.
I am no Biologist, but the early Days provided me with a lot of technical info as this was proboably the main topic in publications.
Take nowadays for e.g Dieter Untergasser's book on fish diseases!!! you have
have a masters degree to be able to understand it and have a good deal of medical eqt to cope with the problem. the same with his book on Discus health.
What did we do in the old days then
Well in the 50's the med chest contained
Malachite green - meth blue - formalin - salt and that was about it
Increasing temp to 86 - 90 - or higher got rid of most parasites along with Salt baths. Left alone not panicking went a long way to probs solving themselves.
There seems to be a cure all for everything if we are mugs enough to buy them.
I was given a good piece of advice by a mentor
When you find a good reliable supplier, pick his brains, ask him questions and then stick with them. quarantine - watch & wait!!!!! Loose a fish or loose your stock. you make the choice!!!!!!!!!!!

How many have seen a beautiful specimen in a shop and just couldn't resist it???? only to pay the price later!!!
Hope I havn't bored you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[White Worm]

Well in the 50's the med chest contained
Malachite green - meth blue - formalin - salt and that was about it
Increasing temp to 86 - 90 - or higher got rid of most parasites along with Salt baths. Left alone not panicking went a long way to probs solving themselves.
Some things never change. This is what I do. I am a big fan of letting things sort themselves out before panicking over a scratch or a missing scale. :D



I was given a good piece of advice by a mentor
When you find a good reliable supplier, pick his brains, ask him questions and then stick with them. quarantine - watch & wait!!!!! Loose a fish or loose your stock. you make the choice!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope I havn't bored you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nope,
Great advice, that is exactly what I did!! Good thing I have Kenny in the neighborhood.:D No matter what fish you have, a good QT should be common knowledge and practice but yes there are some that dont know or take the chance. :(

[roclement]

Here is what I know...

Tank, bare bottom, don't overstock, feed quality foods, simple sponge filters, good quality heater, simple lights (if no plants), water changes to live by, quarentine new fish, and good source stock = healthy fish!

I haven't had to treat a fish for a single disease in over 3 years (knock on wood!), that to me is as simple as it gets and have been working for over 20 years!

I think the over abundance of gadgets available today make things over complicated, I fell for all of them, and eventually came back to my basics, that's why I have a basement full of extra stuff if anyone is interested! : )

Rod

[Cosmo]

Russel... either you started really young, or, you're one of the few people on the board older than me :D Like Graham, I can relate :) I started in the 70's and Wild browns & blues were about all that was available locally.

Love the wilds because they have so much more personality, and, I think relating to your point of how things have changed with gadgets and song and dance.. I think they were much hardier as well. Seemed like you almost had to try to kill one back then... UGF's, far less frequent WCs, big HOBS filled with carbon, etc ...

Good news is, they're still around, bad news is, they're more expensive... well, in adjusted dollars they're less, but they still usually cost more than the newer breeds.

Jim

[Cosmo]

lol... in the 70's, my medicine chest consisted of Maracyn1&2.. that was about it. Figuring they were wild fish, from the Amazon, where it's HOT, I kept my tanks about 92F and they grew well, lived long and prospered.

Anything looked a miss.. I'd drop in Maracyn and all would be better.

2lbs of gravel for every gallon of tank was the rule of thumb, UGFs were the best, and WOW when they came out with power heads. Remember the Silent Giants.. now THERE was an air pump!!

No internet, I didn't even realize there were other people addicted to keeping Discus, much less being able to communicate and learn what I was doing wrong... even though the concept of what is right has changed dramatically over the years anyway.

Like decaf coffee... one decade it causes cancer, the next it's the best thing to drink..

Jim

[Graham]

LOL .......Remember the Silent Giants.. now THERE was an air pump!!..............they were a damn good pump. After years of sleeping with the buzz of green Long Life air pumps...then they and the Bilko's came along......... slience. Then came HOB filter instead of corner bubblers.......amazing that I stayed in the hobby with all the noise that was in my bedroom with 6 or 7 tanks


I got a small microscope when I was about 13 ...the poor fish all they had to do was look the wrong way at me and they were under the scope or being scraped to get something off them.........:)

[White Worm]

I got a small microscope when I was about 13 ...the poor fish all they had to do was look the wrong way at me and they were under the scope or being scraped to get something off them.........:)
Thats funny G! Even if I had a microscope, I wouldnt know where or how to scrape and then I wouldnt know what I was looking at anyway. How do you know what you are looking at under the scope. Do you have some site that shows what these diseases look like? I would be curious to give it a try.

[Squiggy]

Mike....any decent general aquarium book has microscopic images of most of the parasites...along with descriptions of what to look for to identify them. Some of those images are available in Simply's library.

Joe

[Graham]

Thats funny G! Even if I had a microscope, I wouldnt know where or how to scrape and then I wouldnt know what I was looking at anyway. How do you know what you are looking at under the scope. Do you have some site that shows what these diseases look like? I would be curious to give it a try.


I know that there's some stuff on this site and many others ......maybe tomorrow I'll write a new post on knocking out, scraping, scoping and ID'ing basic parasites

G

[White Worm]

Mike....any decent general aquarium book has microscopic images of most of the parasites...along with descriptions of what to look for to identify them. Some of those images are available in Simply's library.

Joe
Book? Whats that? this is the 00's (.com era) :D

[russell]

Nice one Cosmos.
A man after my own heart. Yep I started young at 16 actualy, 1956 and Yes The Discus strain was tougher, hardier and far less prone to infection than to days stock. Could the message be that we have become the cause of our own misgivings???
A very controversial point about to come up and for that I will take all the stick you wan't to dish out.
For all the good the great man J.W did for the hobby I think the biggest dissfavour he did was to interfer with Nature, by crossbreeding and genetic's.
The strains today are bred to satisfy the market demand.
Where in nature do you find the variety in Discus that are now available .??
All that happens is the strain is weakend. persitent inbreeding cross breeding just leads to problems that create more problems!!
That is why in the beginning most Discus that were available were Tough and were more Disease resitent. o.k they did go down with paracitical problems but the medication that was available was limited but effective.
You soon built up your own Knowledge base!!!!
Having knocked J.W I still hold him is great esteem along with HRA. & E.Schult who were also the Pioneers.
Anyway enough banter and the ravings of an old timer.
As long as we remember we are the custodians of these magnificent fish not the owners.

[Cosmo]

Boy the way Glenn Miller played...
songs that made the hit parade..
guys like us we had it made..
those were the days... lol

Excellent points Russel, and agree 100 percent on downside to inbreeding all the beautiful strains we see today. Hopefully it won't lead to the same traumatic end that met the exotic strains of Anfelfish in the early 80's.

In 1956 I was five years old... good for you hanging in there like that :) .... suddenly... I feel young again :p :D LOL

Jim

oh... and remember the Green Ebo that actually held the temp rock solid :cry: I really miss those :cry:

[roclement]

Allright, I am from Brasil and my first tank was built using the rear glass of a volkswagen wagon, it made for a decent tank, the lid was glass, the lights were incandenscent, no heaters, and the good old corner filter that was air driven.

We used to go to the market on sunday, something like a large Italian market, all outdoors and buy fish from this Oriental gentleman that sold them in bags, hanging in lines in front of his volkswagen bus, very common in Brasil! Guppies, platies, many loaches, Bettas, lot's of goldfish! Man life was easy back then...back in the early 80's, I was 10.

Plants were kept for as long as it took them to die, and then we bought more! My first UGF I was in high school already and we had to make them ourselves using PVC pipes, the ones you found in Brasil were imported and very expensive! My first powerhead was from a Brasilian company called Platax, they were copies of Penguin powerheads, but horrible quality, I lost manhy fish to them due to electrical current in the tank.

My first hang-on filter was air driven (remember those!) and was filled with wooll and carbon. We would remove the carbon after 2 weeks and "roast" it in sautee pans to release the chemicals and then re-use it again!

I had a slatwater tank mainly with animals we got ourelves in the beach like urchins, lobsters, the odd fish, some coldwater anemones, it was all very odd! We had to take containers to the shore to get some real saltwater because there were no mixes available! I can't believe we went through all that trouble.

I used to see a lot of wild Discus, there was a store in Sao Paulo called "Aquarius do Brasil" - brazilian aquariums - that had an amazing collection, I think they exported, not sure...we could see everything from angles to stingrays, wich nobody wanted because they were hard to keep, grew very large, and ate everything in the tank!

Brown discus, heckels, they were all there! I had never seen a hybrid untill I moved to the US in 1997! Man...I could go on for days....great thread!

Rod

[LizStreithorst]

You are Liz? I would never have figured that ~ You seem to be quite knowledgeable IMO ~


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

I think that has do do with the fact that if I don't know an answer I keep my mouth shut. ;)

[brewmaster15]

People make things too complicated with discus...I wasn't around back in the caveman days like some of you:) but I have seen my share of discus years;)

When I think of all the arguements over what PH, temp, conductivity, filter types, water change % , foods to feed or not, med doses etc that become the fodder for forum fires..I want to pull out my hair...( if I had any).

Simple terms... Good clean water, appropriate temperature range, good food, healthy starting stock.....a little research so you know what the heck a discus is and where it comes from and you have all you need.

Read whats been done by others and pay twice the amount of attention to what failed for them than what worked and start forming your own thought on what works for you personally. I have seen over the years that theres a very wide lattitude in what works..and a very narrow one in what doesn't.

Hth,
al

[russell]

Rod
I envy you BRAZIL!!!!!!!!!! Where a Discus Nut has Xmas every day.There is a chap on the UKDA who posts from Brazil. all he has is wilds & breeding Heckles. to him is as easy as Pie. How fantasic it must be to take a weekend away and go down the road to The Negro or Tefe and see for yourself the Wild Discus, Catch a few, Breed a few God what a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like the V.W idea. it's amazing what you can do if you set your mind to it.
Don't get us oldies wrong folk's!! as for knowledge we are not experts by any means, it's just that we had to learn the hard way.
The other comment as to getting experience if you keep getting thing wrong.
The best way is to keep things as simple as possible.
Water quality is of prime importance. This does not mean go and get an R.O filter. (although helpful it is not a neccesity).
Getting a low Ph.-Cr*p!!!! Mine have bred in Ph of 8 and a TDS of over 600
The main thing is CONSISTANCY & STABILITY. keep your water the same don't mess it about. or you will end up chasing your tails!!!
My kh has been 6 my gh has been 12 and they still spawn.
Just because FRED down the road has all dancing ,all singing gadgets and can breed Discus dosn't mean to say you have to get it.
Over the years my main display tank has kept the same perameters day in day out.as have the breeding and rearing tanks .
If you want to make changes PLEASE only cange one thing at a time .and waite at least a week or two to observe any change.
I have a friend who keeps phoning me with so called problems.
His Ph is low, his TDS is High, he can't get his KH or GH down. he has tried everything. - Never one thing at a time- If the change is not immeadiate he tries something else, and the vicious circle starts.

Anyway I'm off to listen to Glen Miller !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & perhaps Madness!

If I win the EURO Lottery I will be on the first Plane to Brazil

[russell]

Just to show I do breed them!!

[roclement]

Rod
I envy you BRAZIL!!!!!!!!!! Where a Discus Nut has Xmas every day.There is a chap on the UKDA who posts from Brazil. all he has is wilds & breeding Heckles. to him is as easy as Pie. How fantasic it must be to take a weekend away and go down the road to The Negro or Tefe and see for yourself the Wild Discus, Catch a few, Breed a few God what a life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like the V.W idea. it's amazing what you can do if you set your mind to it.
Don't get us oldies wrong folk's!! as for knowledge we are not experts by any means, it's just that we had to learn the hard way.
The other comment as to getting experience if you keep getting thing wrong.
The best way is to keep things as simple as possible.
Water quality is of prime importance. This does not mean go and get an R.O filter. (although helpful it is not a neccesity).
Getting a low Ph.-Cr*p!!!! Mine have bred in Ph of 8 and a TDS of over 600
The main thing is CONSISTANCY & STABILITY. keep your water the same don't mess it about. or you will end up chasing your tails!!!
My kh has been 6 my gh has been 12 and they still spawn.
Just because FRED down the road has all dancing ,all singing gadgets and can breed Discus dosn't mean to say you have to get it.
Over the years my main display tank has kept the same perameters day in day out.as have the breeding and rearing tanks .
If you want to make changes PLEASE only cange one thing at a time .and waite at least a week or two to observe any change.
I have a friend who keeps phoning me with so called problems.
His Ph is low, his TDS is High, he can't get his KH or GH down. he has tried everything. - Never one thing at a time- If the change is not immeadiate he tries something else, and the vicious circle starts.

Anyway I'm off to listen to Glen Miller !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! & perhaps Madness!

If I win the EURO Lottery I will be on the first Plane to Brazil


I miss Brasil, but love living here in the US, and I'll tell you, the way that South American Cyclids are taking over Florida, very soon you won't need to go to Brasil to collect, you could throw a net in your back yard and catch some wild hybrids!!!! What a wacky world we live in! Just check the state list of invasive species, it reads like an importers list! Even arowanas have been found in Florida!!! I'll take the family to Disney and go fishing!!!!

Rod