Cost of heating water barrels

[Riche_guy]

I was wondering if it is cheaper to heat water barrels in my garage continuously or to wait a day before using that water to fill my tank.

Thanks.

[pcsb23]

I'm guessing that your garage is unheated? It will be cheaper to heat just before a water change than to keep it heated. Thats assuming you use all or nearly alll of the water at each change

[Riche_guy]

I'm guessing that your garage is unheated? It will be cheaper to heat just before a water change than to keep it heated. Thats assuming you use all or nearly alll of the water at each change

The garage is heated. Mind you not at 86 degrees. My barrels are connected together and they hold about 80 to 85 gallons. I use at most 55 gallons during water changes.

[pcsb23]

I would still think heat on demand, I did have a very complicated thermal energy calculation somewhere, but cannot find it just now. I suspect with you being in Canada that your incoming source water will be cold too.

[Riche_guy]

I would still think heat on demand, I did have a very complicated thermal energy calculation somewhere, but cannot find it just now. I suspect with you being in Canada that your incoming source water will be cold too.

Water is cold, especially this time of the year. My thinking was that if the water is heated and the barrels are insulated that it would take next to nothing to continually heat it. But to heat at the last minute it would take lots of energy to heat it from scratch. Another thing that came to mind is if I needed to make a quick water change. If it is cold I would have to wait to warm it up.

[pcsb23]

Depends how long between water changes. I do daily changes so mines heating all the time. Your input water will significantly chill the water in the barrel, by insulating it then it wont warm to the air temp as quick. You will in effect have to heat the 55 gallons from scratch each time and then maintain it.

your point about doing a quick w/c though makes the decison for you imo, it needs to be kept heated. This hobby never gets any cheaper :)

[Riche_guy]

Depends how long between water changes. I do daily changes so mines heating all the time. Your input water will significantly chill the water in the barrel, by insulating it then it wont warm to the air temp as quick. You will in effect have to heat the 55 gallons from scratch each time and then maintain it.

your point about doing a quick w/c though makes the decison for you imo, it needs to be kept heated. This hobby never gets any cheaper :)

I guess you are right. Keep it heated. Since I don't us all the water in the barrels, I decided that I would leave it that way to make another water change before filling again. As you said I would be cooling that water all over again.

Thanks for the help.

[Tad]

I havent heated water in my storage for over a year and a half....mind you we keep our storage inside and is heated to whatever the temp is in our home...no adverse effect on our fish......I would venture to think our water is never over 73 degrees ...

JME,
Tad

[Riche_guy]

I havent heated water in my storage for over a year and a half....mind you we keep our storage inside and is heated to whatever the temp is in our home...no adverse effect on our fish......I would venture to think our water is never over 73 degrees ...

JME,
Tad

Over 73 or under?

[LizStreithorst]

I havent heated water in my storage for over a year and a half....mind you we keep our storage inside and is heated to whatever the temp is in our home...no adverse effect on our fish......I would venture to think our water is never over 73 degrees ...

JME,
Tad

That is very a very interesting piece of information, Tad. Here lately we've been going through a cold snap. Except for the water storage for the breeding room, my containers are kept outside. The containers are insulated and each have 2 200 watt heaters in them. During this period of cold weather I've used water that was at 77 degrees. It made me a bit nerveous. How low in temp do you think that your WC water gets? And what percentage do you change and how often?

[jeep]

I havent heated water in my storage for over a year and a half....mind you we keep our storage inside and is heated to whatever the temp is in our home...no adverse effect on our fish......I would venture to think our water is never over 73 degrees ...

JME,
Tad

DITTO!!

[Tad]

That is very a very interesting piece of information, Tad. Here lately we've been going through a cold snap. Except for the water storage for the breeding room, my containers are kept outside. The containers are insulated and each have 2 200 watt heaters in them. During this period of cold weather I've used water that was at 77 degrees. It made me a bit nerveous. How low in temp do you think that your WC water gets? And what percentage do you change and how often?


Riche,
I would say my water temp in storage never gets over 73F as the storage is kept in our centrally heated and cooled home...and its always 73F here :D

Liz,
I just took out my combo Hannah and took a temp reading in my storage..its currently 65F :) ....Water changes are at 30 percent for my Altums and Heckels, 50 percent for my domestic Angels and 50 percent for my Curipera's and domestic Discus....Water changes are happening every 3 days right now. We feed flake, CBWs and Bloodworms...Been in this water change pattern now for 6 months with no adverse effects (maybe just damn lucky)....
As for water temps, Ive been doing this for over a year and a half and I havent ever checked storage temp (until today)
I used to heat 90 gallons of RO/Tap for my wilds and pairs, and 90 gallons of Tap for my domestics (total of 1100 watts of heaters going 24/7)...trust me we have seen a drop in or electrical bill......
I know if I ever go back to heating my storage I will heavily insulate my containers like You to maintain and conserve heat and energy!

JME,
Tad

[Cosmo]

Due to lack of any alternative primarily, my storage tanks are in the fish room so the temp of the water in the storage tanks effects the room temp which effects the fish tanks, so (although I've never tested this theory) for me it's cheaper to constantely heat the barrels and avoid kicking in the heaters in the tanks all the time. I do daily WCs as well, so don't have much of a choice anyway

I don't have the tanks themselves insulated, but I do have a 1/2in of insulation on the inside of the outside walls, 2 inches of foam under the storage barrels, and of course the insulation inside all four of the walls. I've even insulated over both of the glass brick windows :p The fish room stays at a pretty consistent 83/84 degrees so the major contributing factor on heater use is the temp of the source water, which at this time of year... is COLD.

Jim

[Bizarroterl]

It takes more energy to preheat and hold the temp until you use it. The reason is that the water will lose heat energy if the surrounding air is cooler than the water. Insulation will help reduce but cannot stop this energy loss.

Assuming you use electricity to heat your water and gas to heat the space the barrels are kept in - Do not insulate the barrels. Let the water absorb heat from the surrounding air. You pay a lot less for heat from gas than from electricity. Then heat the water to the needed temp as you use it.

[Riche_guy]

It takes more energy to preheat and hold the temp until you use it. The reason is that the water will lose heat energy if the surrounding air is cooler than the water. Insulation will help reduce but cannot stop this energy loss.

Assuming you use electricity to heat your water and gas to heat the space the barrels are kept in - Do not insulate the barrels. Let the water absorb heat from the surrounding air. You pay a lot less for heat from gas than from electricity. Then heat the water to the needed temp as you use it.

Given that I have decided to keep the water heated at all times and that the garage is cool, I decided to insulate the barrels. That way the heaters are not on all the time, the insulation does its job.

[jim_shedden]

My holding tanks are in the basement. The temp in the summer is about 65 and in the winter about 60. I have never heated the water. I just have an airstone in the tank to bubble out the chlorine. I do about 25% w/c's ever 3 days. So far no problem.

Jim

[Riche_guy]

I was wondering how does one remove the water in the hose after doing a water change? Do you leave the water in there or do you bring it back to you storage tank somehow?

[pcsb23]

I was wondering how does one remove the water in the hose after doing a water change? Do you leave the water in there or do you bring it back to you storage tank somehow?
I always drain the hose, I have a connector a few feet from the pump.

[Riche_guy]

I always drain the hose, I have a connector a few feet from the pump.

Can you explain further.

Thanks.

[Cosmo]

I'm not Paul, but it's a good idea to drain the hose and hang it if possible so that it drains as much as possible. The hose will stay clean and free of algae buildup that way.

I never let anything drain back into the storage barrels myself... once it's out of the barrels its either in the tank or down the drain.. keeps the water in the barrels less susceptable to contamination.

My tanks are filled by piping. I have a check valve at the beginning so nothing back flows into the barrels, and the piping is angled so that when the pump goes off the remaining water empties into the tanks.

Jim

[Riche_guy]

I'm not Paul, but it's a good idea to drain the hose and hang it if possible so that it drains as much as possible. The hose will stay clean and free of algae buildup that way.

I never let anything drain back into the storage barrels myself... once it's out of the barrels its either in the tank or down the drain.. keeps the water in the barrels less susceptable to contamination.

My tanks are filled by piping. I have a check valve at the beginning so nothing back flows into the barrels, and the piping is angled so that when the pump goes off the remaining water empties into the tanks.

Jim

I'm not quite sure how to drain the hose. It is about 50 feet. I have a shut-off at one end where I fill the tank. I usuall roll the hose back to the barrel and hang it there. Like you said it is filled with water. I am not sure how I would drain it. The hose is in my barrel connect to my mag 9.5 pump. It would be nice if it could reverse. Any help would be appreciated.

[pcsb23]

I have a short length of pipe permanently connected to the pump with a shut off quick connect. On one end of my fill pipe I have the female to the shut off. When the tanks are full I swicth the taps, disconnect the pipe, and then drain the fill pipe away. I never leave water in the fill pipe. The short length gets lifted and emptied back into the storage, its about 6 feet long.

hth,

[Riche_guy]

I have a short length of pipe permanently connected to the pump with a shut off quick connect. On one end of my fill pipe I have the female to the shut off. When the tanks are full I swicth the taps, disconnect the pipe, and then drain the fill pipe away. I never leave water in the fill pipe. The short length gets lifted and emptied back into the storage, its about 6 feet long.

hth,

So if I understand you correctly, you shutoff the hose near the pump, unscrew it and put that end into the barrel. when you roll up the hose, the water in it drains into the barrel. Am I getting this right??

[pcsb23]

So if I understand you correctly, you shutoff the hose near the pump, unscrew it and put that end into the barrel. when you roll up the hose, the water in it drains into the barrel. Am I getting this right??

Not quite, the water in the long hose drains to waste, its only the water thats in the 6' (2m) length that goes back into the storage tank.

[Riche_guy]

Not quite, the water in the long hose drains to waste, its only the water thats in the 6' (2m) length that goes back into the storage tank.

where do you dump the water in the hose??

[pcsb23]

where do you dump the water in the hose??
Down a drain.

[Riche_guy]

Down a drain.

What is the problem with returning water back to the barrel?

Also it would seem like you would need 2 shutoff valves. One on the short side so water won't continue to escape and one on the hose.

[pcsb23]

What is the problem with returning water back to the barrel?

Just being careful.



Also it would seem like you would need 2 shutoff valves. One on the short side so water won't continue to escape and one on the hose.
Thats correct I use an eheim 2 tap, quick connect.

[Riche_guy]

Just being careful.


Thats correct I use an eheim 2 tap, quick connect.

Those Eheim connects must be expensive. I will try to find something simular at the hardware store.