Now I have seen it all...minor rant.

[brewmaster15]

I was at a petshop yesterday in CT, looking at the fishes...

They had flourescent green and yellow Zebras...They had "candy Cane" mollies... and pokadot mollies.. I kid you not ...The mollies had stripes and spots painted on them.. It reminded me of those dyed glass fish..you know...the ones that always die:mad:

That was pretty bad... but the real insult was the albino oscars... They are Tatooed!~ with Red hearts on their sides....These fish were about 3-4" and boldly tattooed with red hearts like a bulls eye on their sides...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Alls I could think about was a BD , snow white or albino tattooed similarly... or hey how about branded with a name...

I can see it now...""ACME DISCUS" written on the sides of the fish... Talk about free advertising!

whats the hobby coming to?

-al

[pcsb23]

Tattoo'd fish are illegal in the UK I believe. I may be mistaken but recall reading an article in PFK either that they were illegal and therefrore banned, or were soon about to become so.

Whilst I am in favour with selective breeding, I cab not condone defacing or maiming fish in any way. Quite simply I find it barbaric.

[fishmama]

WOW-

All I can say is that is ridiculous. Can't believe some breeders/distributors actually stoop to that level. Anything for a buck, too bad.

[IceDiscus]

That was pretty bad... but the real insult was the albino oscars... They are Tatooed!~ with Red hearts on their sides....These fish were about 3-4" and boldly tattooed with red hearts like a bulls eye on their sides...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:


-al

Thats crazy, I went to the fish store about 4 months ago and saw a Parot fish (I think thats the correct name) with a hart on its side to, I never seen anything like that. when I asked about it they made it seem as if that just how the pattern of the fish came to be. But know that I think about it, it did look like a tattoo.

[architect1]

Wow that’s sad. I can't imagine when the fish went to the tatt parlor asking to be tatt. I hate them and look down upon the stores that sell them. And that’s why I'm on hear also, trustable and reliable breeders.

[poconogal]

....Whilst I am in favour with selective breeding, I cab not condone defacing or maiming fish in any way. Quite simply I find it barbaric.
I'm with Paul. I find this practice apalling.

[AmberC]

I saw this at my pet store too Al. I was talking with my lfs guy about it and telling him how much I hate seeing this and how horrible it is and he said "I know.. I really dont want to carry them but I dont have a choice. I have to carry what people want."

Its so sad. Mine was on tetras, but he told me they were doing oscars too.
Its very disgusting.

Amb

[Kindredspirit]

How do they tattoo a fish? Are you sure? ...of course you are:o Did you say anything Al? What could you say really....Amber and I would be kicked out I am afraid:D


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_102.gif

[Graham]

As long as people are willing to buy dyed, tattooed or mutated fish they will be created and sold...they even have glow in dark Zebra Danios.

The pic was taken a few weeks ago in Hong Kong......Look close at a couple of the fish in the bags...Mother Nature didn't make them.

http://www.fototime.com/6CFEC46F72A0659/standard.jpg

[AmberC]

How do they tattoo a fish? Are you sure? ...of course you are:o Did you say anything Al? What could you say really....Amber and I would be kicked out I am afraid:D


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_2_102.gif

Well.. they are good people at this lfs, its all business tho. :( Perhaps I could get enough people around here and petition the owner not to carry them...

but that IS only one LFS :( Would it be much use?

[pcsb23]

Well.. they are good people at this lfs, its all business tho. :( Perhaps I could get enough people around here and petition the owner not to carry them...

but that IS only one LFS :( Would it be much use?

Its better to petition governments and/or animal welfare organisations. Problem with this sort of thing is it paints the whole hobby in a bad light. There are bodies in the UK looking for any excuse to make keeping fish in aquaria illegal or at best socially unacceptable, this plays right into their hands.

[discussmith]

Al; while I understand and agree with you I wonder how many of us own or like dogs with cropped ears or tails or other body modifications. I find the de-clawing of cats an abominable practice even though I understand it has saved thousands of dollars in furniture. Did anyone feel similarly when this first started? It seems quite accepted now. I don't mind markings that don't harm the fish if it enables a reputable lfs owner to make a living and educate people more into the hobby and provide a needed service while they advance. I will not though support a shop that sells or marks fish that are harmed in doing so. I am however unsure of what methods do or do not harm them. And I myself would never own one.

[mmorris]

I spoke out when I saw the `painted' fish at a LFS South of me. Its the least all of us who object can do. If I'm kicked out, well, fine. Is it not a legal issue if fish are harmed in the process? Martha

[kaceyo]

The first time I saw a dyed parrot the owner told me it was natural. So perspective customers are not only contributing to this practice in ignorence, but are being given misinformation to make the practice seem harmless.
I have to take issue with the shopkeeper at the lfs Amber spoke of. He certainly did have a choice, and decided that the money made from selling these fish was more important than the damage done to the fish and the hobby. If shopkeepers didn't order them the market would die out.
Amber, did this guy try to tell you that it was natural markings? Just curiouse.

Kacey

[annieb]

The first time I saw a dyed parrot the owner told me it was natural. So perspective customers are not only contributing to this practice in ignorence, but are being given misinformation to make the practice seem harmless.
I have to take issue with the shopkeeper at the lfs Amber spoke of. He certainly did have a choice, and decided that the money made from selling these fish was more important than the damage done to the fish and the hobby. If shopkeepers didn't order them the market would die out.
Amber, did this guy try to tell you that it was natural markings? Just curiouse.

Kacey
Hormoning fish to bring out color isn't much different a practice. Tatooing is probably less damaging to the fish as well. As long as hobbiests demand beautiful color in juvinile discus, the practice will continue.
Now I'm told most of the master breeders in Asia have changed from hormoning to color enhancing, which is supposed to be a safe practice. I remember when they used to sell baby turtles with tatooed shells. They didn't live very long.

[Ryan]

One of the local LFS here carries the painted parrot fish, but they don't mention anywhere that the fish were "painted" this way on purpose. The price tag on them is $80 each for 3 - 4" parrots. They have neon red lips, green and blue vertical stripes painted on like discus stripes, and little designs all over the body. They are called "clown parrots".

I personally do not care for them and I think it's ridiculous. I'm not paying $80 for a fish that someone used as an art project. Parrots already look sad enough without all the horrible painting and tattooing.

[Rod]

Disgusting habit, should be outlawed imo.

[hexed]

My friend bought a dyed parrot fish too! She was so mad when the fish lost the color within a year. Like the pet store owner said as long as people want them he has to sell them :( He has a business and he needs to compete with the other LFS or he will end up closing his business. It is a supply and demand world, if you don't sell it people will go somewhere else to buy it :(

My friend had no clue that the fish were dyed or tattooed, I don't think the average fish keeper is aware that any are cause who would ever think of that?

[unicknn]

My friend bought a dyed parrot fish too! She was so mad when the fish lost the color within a year. Like the pet store owner said as long as people want them he has to sell them :( He has a business and he needs to compete with the other LFS or he will end up closing his business. It is a supply and demand world, if you don't sell it people will go somewhere else to buy it :(

My friend had no clue that the fish were dyed or tattooed, I don't think the average fish keeper is aware that any are cause who would ever think of that?

Thats not so much true. Theres different levels of LFS's well there is here at least. Theres ones who sell wallmart style crap like Pacus and Oscars and painted fish(not that theres anything wrong with Oscars I own one myself) Pacus I dont think should be sold for home aquariums because they get way to big and suffer because the ppl who own them dont know any better(my little brother). Theres also LFS here that sell nothig but nice fish and would never deal in painted or tatood fish. I tend to do all my aquarium shopping at the nicer stores because I know Ill get a good quality fish good REAL info about things and I wont have to nurse sick fish back to life as soon as I buy them. I would stop shopping at any LFS that sold tatood fish if I had a choice.


nick

[roclement]

A friend of mine is a distributor and has them on his list, evreything from oscars to parrot fish, he says he hates selling them but, they are a hot commodity and sell out every time...

As long as people keep buying them...

Rod

[IceDiscus]

Any word on tattooed discus

[LizStreithorst]

The majority of people buying fish don't look at them as we do.
After all, we're fish nuts. Of course we take exception! The people who buy the majority of fish at the LFS's could really care less. They think that it looks cool, so they buy it. I really can't fault the LFS owners, either. They have to make a living.
Their ain't much we can do to change the tastes of the unwashed masses. We can only be here when one of them is looking for something more.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

In the Ornamental Tropical Fish Industry, you have to realize that color sells (just like sex sells). People buy fish based on the colors of the fish. Atleast 95%+ of all people who buy tropical fish in the US are not aware, or even care if the fish are colored, hormoned, tattoed, etc. If it's colorful, they want it. To them, its just a fish. I can see their point in it being just a fish, but at some point in time there will be even more extreme practices done in the coming future (think heart shaped discus). Coloring the fish in one way or another pretty much guarantees the end reseller (LFS) will sell that fish because of how colorful it is. Go into a LFS and look for dull colored fish that arent overly aggressive or get monstrously (sp?) huge. Watch those fish and see how fast they sell. While at the same time, compare them with colorful fish and see how much faster those will sell. And if a LFS can sell the colorful ones easier, then they will do it because they are a business and have to survive. So really, colored fish have their place in the world...just a small percentage of us actually give a damn (us). JMO

-Ryan

[Kenny's Discus]

In the Ornamental Tropical Fish Industry, you have to realize that color sells (just like sex sells). People buy fish based on the colors of the fish. Atleast 95%+ of all people who buy tropical fish in the US are not aware, or even care if the fish are colored, hormoned, tattoed, etc. If it's colorful, they want it. To them, its just a fish. I can see their point in it being just a fish, but at some point in time there will be even more extreme practices done in the coming future (think heart shaped discus). Coloring the fish in one way or another pretty much guarantees the end reseller (LFS) will sell that fish because of how colorful it is. Go into a LFS and look for dull colored fish that arent overly aggressive or get monstrously (sp?) huge. Watch those fish and see how fast they sell. While at the same time, compare them with colorful fish and see how much faster those will sell. And if a LFS can sell the colorful ones easier, then they will do it because they are a business and have to survive. So really, colored fish have their place in the world...just a small percentage of us actually give a damn (us). JMO

-Ryan

I do want to add that as for coloring, these days I've seen many deceptive practices by sellers trying to "hype-up" their line of fish as non-colored discus but the fact is these fish were in indeed colored and they were basically just the lesser grades of a batch. For instance, I've seen in person in some foreign discus hatcheries that in a batch of non-colored spotted discus frys(say e.g. 100frys), only the top 5-10%(roughly speaking) have tight and intense spotting potential whereas the bottom 20-30%(quality-wise) have very few spots. If breeders were to color feed this whole batch with say chlorophyll color enhancer these bottom percentiles will still have not much spotting expressed(but were also colored), even when they become adults. It's why these fish are often sold by foreign breeders as C grades fish due to their lack of potential as compared to the higher percentiles.

These dishonest seller(s)' practice of trying to deceive buyers about their "non-colored A grades" (but in fact were colored fed and were lower grades of a batch) should be taken with extreme caution. Because of monetary factors and the general buyers' lack of knowledge, they will try to take advantage AND profit from promoting their low grades fish in this fashion.

Fortunately, nowadays with accumulated experiences many(not all) hobbyists can tell which is the better/inferior grades when looking at a fish. JME & JMO.

Tattooed/painted fish is an inhumane practice that shouldn't be allowed IMO.

Kenny

[swinters66]

My lfs guy has the tattooed oscars. They are solid white, with hearts. Now, me personally....a solid white oscar would be prettier than that ugly red heart painted on it. Yes, as long as people keep buying them, theyll keep doing it. Horrible.

I too think it should be illegal to do that. Mention it to PETA....they'd be all over it!!

[Greg Richardson]

Mention it to PETA....they'd be all over it!!

I'm glad you brought my organization up.
Few know this about me and I think it may be time to share as publicity is quite hard to come by to promote PETA.

Not only am I a member of PETA, I'm the President also!

http://img.clubphoto.com/jerboa/180403088/512/null/image.jpg

[ShinShin]

It a sad thing, but as Rod's friend demonstrates by selling these fish even though he hates doing so, the world is becoming a place where it is okay for a man to sell his soul as long as he gets a good price. Selling colored and dyed fish may be an extremely small example, it is still a glance at the big picture of the world today.

Mat

[tpl*co]

I was at a petshop yesterday in CT, looking at the fishes...

They had flourescent green and yellow Zebras...They had "candy Cane" mollies... and pokadot mollies.. I kid you not ...The mollies had stripes and spots painted on them.. It reminded me of those dyed glass fish..you know...the ones that always die:mad:

That was pretty bad... but the real insult was the albino oscars... They are Tatooed!~ with Red hearts on their sides....These fish were about 3-4" and boldly tattooed with red hearts like a bulls eye on their sides...:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Alls I could think about was a BD , snow white or albino tattooed similarly... or hey how about branded with a name...

I can see it now...""ACME DISCUS" written on the sides of the fish... Talk about free advertising!

whats the hobby coming to?

-al


Or how about a Wedgewood Blue discus, a discus tatooed with your favorite china pattern on it? I agree Al, that does sound disgusting. Someone brought a calander yesterday with pictures of "Painted Cats" Not pictures of
cats, but cats that had been painted. Poor cats, it even said that some people pay $5000-$15000 to have their cats painted? Ughhhh.

Tina

[brewmaster15]

WE all Chose what we buy and sell in this world... I do believe you always have a choice... You take the high road or low road... take the hard trail or easy one.... You can find a problem and try to solve it... or be part of the problem because thats what everyone does...The choice is always yours and at the end of the day... you look yourself in the mirror and have to deal with what you see. Sometimes I like what I see...sometimes I don't...if I don't....then I try to deal with it so I do.


I do want to make a note on Hormones...I do not believe in their use...not even in low doses for any animal...I have said that before, I also don't think that they are going anywhere in the short term in the fish hobby... Fish aren't regulated like warm blooded vertebrates....and until they are... almost anything goes.

I agree with Ryan that color sells which is one reason Hormoned, dyed, tattooed fish are in demand.. I also agree with Kenny on the deceptions that abound out there in the fish sellers market. Because of the market reaction to hormones...it is getting more common for exporters to "market" non - hormoned fish... Its hard to really gauge how much of this is fact and how much is fiction...in most cases it comes down to reputations..... who do you trust and believe.

Whats needed is more transparency in what is currently used for coloring fish... with that info... We can all better judge the issue.. without it...Alls we all have is speculation, unfounded assumptions, myths, and out dated semifacts about what is thought to be used to color discus. Problem is that info is guarded and often proprietary, varies greatly among breeders, and not likely to be shared. Problem is it is also always changing. I don't see a resolution to this in the near future.


Hth,
al

[jim_shedden]

It is totaly unacceptable to me............but then so is tattoing and cropping certain dog breeds ears..........as mentioned. Its funny (not really) what has become acceptable to us and what has not.

Jim

[hexed]

Jim,
I would never want to be a doby or boxer puppy LOL! Those poor things not only get the ears cropped by their tails too! :(

[jpfelix]

when i was at our lfs, i made more than a few people upset by not carrying the various painted fish. i told them i'd rather lose a sale than promote the suffering of animals.

some customers were outraged (or at least acted so) once they found out what made the pretty colors. others didn't care...they're just fish.

[Timbo]

One of the local LFS here carries the painted parrot fish, but they don't mention anywhere that the fish were "painted" this way on purpose. The price tag on them is $80 each for 3 - 4" parrots. They have neon red lips...
pic of similar

[deesdiscus]

my brother had what was sold to him as a blueberry oscar. he bought it lived maybe a month, got another one same thing after a 3rd he got one to live about 6 months when it grew out of the dye, man that fish looked like a really dark peppered pigeon discus.

[Audrey]

Is it possible to even find out where this tatooing is being done? Then from there try to find out if any of the fish are being killed by this process? I would have to guess that the stress of this is probably doing some of them in.

Geez, what's next??? Body piercings on these poor fish?

Audrey

[GrillMaster]

I have not actually seen any of this crap in my LFS, but if I did, I would definitely voice my opinion! I actually think the LFS owner has a little savvy. I haven't even seen the glass fish in there.

He carries nothing that has been artificially tranformed...

Now the discus he carries is another story. It would make ya wanna just break down in tears! He had one that had absolutely no fins at all...I was sick!!

I really believe he needs a mediator!

I ain't doin much over the winter....LOL

[billeagan]

Tomorrow the great state of Illinois is coming to inspect me - Since I import I have to have a pet shop license even though I don't sell dogs, cats or birds..

I'll ask the inspector about the tatooing thing... I think it should be illegal IMO..