shipped discus DOA

[discusIA]

I received a pair of discus today and they arrived dead. The water was very cool. The discus were shipped in a cardboard box not an insulated box. I was shocked. The seller said he always ships in these boxes. He must not understand it is cold in the winter in the midwest. Expensive lesson-will only buy from sponsers from now on.

[Ryan]

Did the seller have a live arrival guarantee? If so, you should be looking at a refund, if not for the shipping then at least for the price of the fish.

Ryan

[discusIA]

He offered a $50 credit on my next order- yeah right! That won't cover the shipping

[wolfbane]

That's terrible. Hard lessons to learn.

[goheel]

who's the seller?

[greyhoundfan]

Ahh maaan..sorry to hear that. That is also a lame excuse. I had discus shipped to me from three different sources and they all came in insulated styrofoam boxes.

[Kindredspirit]

He offered a $50 credit on my next order- yeah right! That won't cover the shipping



...on your next order? As if you would ever order from him again....why do they always say that to people that get burned?

I am sorry for your loss!

Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_2_20.gif

[RoninGai]

that truly does suck :mad: and only a $50 credit the cost of the packing alone didn't cost $50.i wouldn't mind the cardboard box but if it was insulated in styrofoam and had some heat packs.

[AmberC]

Even LFS's get their fish in styrofoam boxes! That is ridiculous!

[brewmaster15]

Sorry to hear about this Matt,

Thats ridiculous... Shipping discus in a non-insulated Box. You can post the name of that seller here if you want to.

Theres a new section coming to the forum shortly, and I'll move this post there when Its up and running.



-al

[Graham]

You should be looking for and receiving a full refund. Fish should always be in styro boxes even in the summer. Really unprofessional of the dealer to ship in cardboard

G

[pcsb23]

Sorry to hear that too Matt, I agree with Graham as well, pure incompetence.

[Kindredspirit]

Fish should always be in styro boxes even in the summer.


Always Graham? No exception? I rec'vd fish in a cardboard box once ~ and newspaper ~ wet with holes in the corner ~




Really unprofessional of the dealer to ship in cardboard
G

You would think ~



Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/29/29_5_2.gif

[poconogal]

That's terrible. Almost sounds like a Phishy shipment to me, except he did use a styrofoam box that didn't close because of the jars he uses. He, too, offered me $50 off on my next order! LOL!!!! Told him there wouldn't be a next order. Got a 50% refund of my total order and two decent 4" Discus, instead of two 4" and two 3".

[dpt8]

Is that person on Aquabid?? Hwo do we know who to stay away from?

[LizStreithorst]

I got a shipment in once in a cardboard box. Very expensive Koi Angels from a very well known and respected breeder. They were all OK, but I have to admit that I was shocked.

[Jessie555]

I received a pair of discus today and they arrived dead. The water was very cool. The discus were shipped in a cardboard box not an insulated box. I was shocked. The seller said he always ships in these boxes. He must not understand it is cold in the winter in the midwest. Expensive lesson-will only buy from sponsers from now on.

This is compleet rediculous, would almost call it murder. Were there at least heatpacks in the box???

You should go for a total refund, I ship quit a few boxes and everything goes in thick styro's and at least 2 heat packs this time of the year,

"Jessie"

[AADiscus]

I would defiantly talk more to the person you bought them from. If you bought on an auction go back and re-read what it said about shipments and any warranty.

That really sucks and sorry to hear it has gone bad for you.

[Graham]

Marie..........always in styro if they are being shipped... even a cardboard box sitting on a cement floor in a air cargo warehouse could have it's water temp drop even in the middle of July. The styro helps insulate and even out temps

Even just travelling with fish to shows, it's best to use coolers

G

[Stillwater Aquatics]

Wow, Im sorry for your loss. I can't beleive someone would actually ship fish like that, well yes I can :mad: . Then to have the gall of offering 50 credit to your next order? I can't imagine someone would ever order from them again. That is just rediculous! Definately check the auction listing for any guaranty, and hold them to it. STYRO AND HEAT PACKS ARE A MUST!

I hate hearing these horror stories :( but they need to be told.

[Timbo]

i am with Graham and the others. shipping fish like that is incompetent and asking for trouble.

a full refund is in order as you did nothing wrong. pls post the name of the vendor so other members dont get burned

[jeep]

If you paid with a credit card, contact the credit card company. I'm positive they will issue you a full refund due to the blatant negligence of the seller!!

[Wahter]

About 10 years ago, I order some discus and they were sent in a box, but they were all bagged and packed inside a rubbermaid tub with heatpacks - all inside the box. They made the trip from Ohio down here to North Carolina in fine shape. No styrofoam at all and they were sent by the US Postal Service (which was the biggest surprise to me!).



Walter

[AmberC]

Marie..........always in styro if they are being shipped... even a cardboard box sitting on a cement floor in a air cargo warehouse could have it's water temp drop even in the middle of July. The styro helps insulate and even out temps

Even just travelling with fish to shows, it's best to use coolers

G

Yeah.. when we moved into this new house, there was a possibility that we could get stuck in the tunnel (that possibility is ALWAYS there) so I went to my lfs and got fish bags and a styrofoam box to bring my fish over in.

[alpine]

discusIA , I would follow through with al's recomendation and post the name of the seller in this forum so others do not fall prey of such an unprofesional seller.

roberto.

[terps]

Saw these complaints on aquabid feedback.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/vfb.cgi?&&vfb&Evenpardiscus

[Kenny's Discus]

Wow, Im sorry for your loss. I can't beleive someone would actually ship fish like that, well yes I can :mad: . Then to have the gall of offering 50 credit to your next order? I can't imagine someone would ever order from them again. That is just rediculous! Definately check the auction listing for any guaranty, and hold them to it. STYRO AND HEAT PACKS ARE A MUST!

I hate hearing these horror stories :( but they need to be told.

I agree with you 100% Jon...a person that conducts business in such fashion is a rip-off artist IMO.:mad: Not only does he/she not care about the fish he sells(by shipping fish without styro to cut cost) but also he would not make good on the DOAs. The worst thing is the $50 offer towards the next order...what logical person is gonna take up an offer like that upon receiving dead fish without replacement? What if there were DOAs again in the next order will he offer $100 towards the next next order then? It is just a joke!

It goes to show that seller like this is mainly in it for the money and preying on newbies. It's just sad....:(

Kenny

[BOBT00LS]

Would I be correct in assuming from Terps posted link to aquabid feedback that the seller was Evenpardiscus ?

[discusIA]

Yes

[BOBT00LS]

I thought it might be. I had an experience with I believe the same seller. My shipment although I must say was packed very well and the discus were alive. Some of you may recognize the discus I purchased from a previous post. I purchased a pair of "Butterfly Discus" . I emailed the seller asking if they were WHITE butterfly. The response I got was yes they are WHITE butterfly. I purchased the discus and upon unpacking them, just one look told me thay were not WHITE butterfly at all. To make a long story short I actually liked the discus very much so after several emails back and forth the seller refunded me, [I]quess how much,[I] $50.00. All in all it worked out for me as I received a very nice pair for $130.00 after the refund. All in all the misrepresentation was there. Sorry to say that I did leave positive feedback as it was a stipulation in getting the partial refund. Seller swears the parents are white butterfly but they just didnt turn out that way. If you paid through PayPal you can contact them to withdraw payment for your item or your credit card company. Informing the seller that negative feedback on aquabid and postings on several discus forums about this seller may make him have a change of heart. Beware that if you do this he may threaten you with sending your name out to many many thousands of mailing list as he says he is some computer genious. This can still be traced back to him and place him in a large legal mess.

[Stillwater Aquatics]

He's no computer genius I know that.
If he does threaten you report him to his ISP and there is other action that can be taken. just PM me ;)

[Kenny's Discus]

Beware that if you do this he may threaten you with sending your name out to many many thousands of mailing list as he says he is some computer genious. This can still be traced back to him and place him in a large legal mess.

Computer genious or not, any seller that "threatens" buyers not to leave him negative feedback by saying he'd otherwise send your name out to thousands of mailing list is not to be trusted IMHO. What honorable person would do something like that?

Just unbelievable!:mad:

Kenny

[Squiggy]

This guy has to be a real worm to do crap like that....

[Kenny's Discus]

It has just been brought to my attention that he's actually a member here on SD and the other forum.

Kenny

[Squiggy]

It wasn't me....was it? :inquisitive:

[tpl*co]

Hmmm, on his/her other auctions it says local pickup is welcome, I wonder what type of operation or what the facilities look like?

Tina

[Organic Farmer]

people like that dont deserve to keep discus

[Midwest Discus]

I purchased some nice virgin reds from this seller as pairs. PLease be carefull of this guy. I got the pairs of virgin reds and turned out to be all females. All of them were laying eggs. I contacted him and he said that it turned out he had at least 5 extra males. Desparate for males I made a very stupid decision to purchase these. GUESS WHAT!!!! Out of the five that were shipped, so far two of them are laying eggs. He guaranteed me these were males and promised he would not disappoint me this time. I will never buy from this guy again. The first time I ordered from him he had to be talked into using heat packs. This was in November and I also am in the Midwest. Hard lesson to learn but I have to live with my decision now.

[Greg Richardson]

Discman123. From what I'm hearing about this guy your situation doesn't surprise me a bit. Sorry about that.
To think you are the one who has to talk to him about heat packs is a very telling sign.

[White Worm]

This guy is crap and now he posts that he uses heat packs and triple bags. DiscusIA, I have to ask, what made you want to order from aquabid when we have so many sponsors here that could get you just about anything you want? 85% of aquabid sellers are crooks. Not all, but most.

[Kenny's Discus]

This guy is crap and now he posts that he uses heat packs and triple bags. DiscusIA, I have to ask, what made you want to order from aquabid when we have so many sponsors here that could get you just about anything you want? 85% of aquabid sellers are crooks. Not all, but most.

Well on top of that if you go to some of his postings he stated that "All of them are local breed", including the LSS Dragon Kings, Hi-body Blue Knights, Golden Melon, Red Melon.:D If he's such a high profile local breeder we must have been real ignorant to have missed this guy LOL.

Kenny

[Alan]

discusIA,

I believe I know this guy. His name is Joe and as far as I know he's a member here and the other forum. You can ask Al or one of the admins, if he's still a member. I bought some discus from him back in December of 2005. It was a pick-up (I flew to Northern California and rode with my brother-in-law going back), so I can't really say much about his packaging.

My 2 cents: Tell him that's not the way business is done and that you're going to tell all the members of both forums about your experience if he doesn't refund you the cost of the fish (at the least). I don't know if he remembers me but feel free to mention my name and tell him he even wanted me to distribute fish for him in So. Cal. Sometime last year he was in SE Asia discus shopping and e-mailed me if I wanted to order some fish and he'll ship it with his purchase. He won't be able to move his fish as fast if he gets a bad reputation and it seems he has a lot of stock to move.

I looked at his aquabid sales and it seems he's passing turqs for snakeskins. :confused:

Good luck with your refund.


Alan

[poconogal]

I'd also file a complaint against him with the Better Business Bureau.

[Kindredspirit]

It wasn't me....was it? :inquisitive:

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_1.gif

[Kindredspirit]

If he's such a high profile local breeder we must have been real ignorant to have missed this guy LOL.

Kenny


Ya think? Now that was funny! So....I'm thinking you know now yes? IS it who we thought?


Marie ~ :angel:

[Tony_S]

In a few of his auctions, he has a live delivery guarantee....


I will guaranteee live delivery of course as long as you are home when they attempt delivery, each fish in a triple bag with oxygen and heat pad.

But doesn't say what the 'guarantee' entails....

Sounds like your 'Guaranteed' to get screwed out of your money if they arrive dead though.

Tony:rolleyes:

[Kenny's Discus]

Ya think? Now that was funny! So....I'm thinking you know now yes? IS it who we thought?


Marie ~ :angel:

Yes Marie now I know who he is and so should you. This might ring a bell as he was the seller of those $480 a piece "28 rings bulldog leopard" remembered? He also called those "king of the discus world" LOL again what a joke!

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=54463&highlight=king+discus

I myself just have a real problem seeing fellow hobbyists being taken advantage of by this self-claimed "computer genius" who threatens buyers .:mad:



Sounds like your 'Guaranteed' to get screwed out of your money if they arrive dead though.
Tony

I agree with Tony. A "guarantee" to him is actually not much of a guarantee afterall.($50 credit towards next order)

Kenny

[jclehmann]

I too have experience with Joe aka Evenpardiscus.

First of all, let me say the guy guys does have some beautiful fish. Two pairs spawned 3 days after my receipt so they must not have been too stressed.

Ordered 5 pairs (unproven, at a premium) and 1 pair (virgin red) turned out to be both females and the remainer turned out to be infested with tapeworms.

When I received the fish the bottom of the box was full of water but the fish were fine and at least he did use styro at my insistance. I talked with Discman123 after his order and made sure I communicated with this guy about my expectations.

Buyer beware I guess.

[jim_shedden]

There is something familar about this guy. Havn't placed it yet.

Jim

[devonpond]

This guy gets some nice discus.

Check out his Gallery (http://new.photos.yahoo.com/evenpar@sbcglobal.net#page1)

He referred to a previous shipment from a Barry Ng, supposedly the brother of Wayne Ng.

Joe, if you're reading this thread, time to get your business practices shaped up and make restitution for the DOAs.

[FishLover888]

Joe, if you're reading this thread, time to get your business practices shaped up and make restitution for the DOAs.

I don't think so. After this brought out to open, I don't think he would do anything at all.

Well, we should do some research before buying anything on line for sure, especially fish!

[White Worm]

You can always tell the crooks by the pictures they use on aquabid. They are either blurry, the same picture for all different auctions of different strains, a picture that they have been using for 6 months or more or the picture of really nice looking adult when they are selling crappy juvies. The real sellers will provide picture of actual discus. Your chances are 70-80% of getting ripped off on aquabid. Buyer beware is right!! Play it safe, go with the sponsors here or find a good local breeder. On aquabid, you are likely to get something other than what you ordered at a higher price, lower quality and still have to pay out the nose for shipping. Done B!tchin, thanks for listening, lol.

[Kindredspirit]

Yes Marie now I know who he is and so should you. This might ring a bell as he was the seller of those $480 a piece "28 rings bulldog leopard" remembered? He also called those "king of the discus world" LOL again what a joke!

THAT ONE? Oh Hell No....!! Me thinks he just cooked his goose:)

Idiot ~


Marie ~ :balloon:

[Kindredspirit]

I don't think so. After this brought out to open, I don't think he would do anything at all.

He won't~

[AmberC]

That is unbelievable. I bought a fish off aquabid once. It was a female betta lol. The one that she sent, was all messed up, so she sent me another one. Let me choose from all her other auctions. Free of charge. That is the way to do it.

Do not let this jerk threaten you. You have gotten a lot of good advice here!

[Ryan]

You can always tell the crooks by the pictures they use on aquabid. They are either blurry, the same picture for all different auctions of different strains, a picture that they have been using for 6 months or more or the picture of really nice looking adult when they are selling crappy juvies. The real sellers will provide picture of actual discus. Your chances are 70-80% of getting ripped off on aquabid. Buyer beware is right!! Play it safe, go with the sponsors here or find a good local breeder. On aquabid, you are likely to get something other than what you ordered at a higher price, lower quality and still have to pay out the nose for shipping. Done B!tchin, thanks for listening, lol.

I'd like to stress that this may be true for discus, but I've gotten some really nice cichlids from reputable people on AquaBid. My port cichlids, some of my kribensis, and my Uaru all came from AquaBid and I'm really, really happy with them.

Doing research on AquaBid is no different than researching sellers on forums or in classifieds. If they don't specifically go over all the details of a guarantee in an auction, it's best to contact them. I contact every seller who has fish that I'm interested in and ask for 3 things: Where did the fish come from (did you breed it, is it wild-caught, etc.), are there pictures of the actual fish for sale and the parents (if applicable), and what is your guarantee on shipping and satisfaction (if I get a fish that is not what you advertised it as, what will you do about it?).

In my experience, the dishonest sellers will tell you that their camera is broke, the fish "look just like the ones in the pictures", etc. Asking a bunch of questions usually weeds those types out. It's also my experience that people who are proud of their fish will gladly answer your questions and enjoy the interest in their fish. The guy I got my port cichlids from exchanged emails with me for 3 days about his grow-outs and his pair, etc. :D

Ryan

[trusty]

Wow I cant beilve it I would fly over to the seller and get my refund and take him back his dead fish. Am sorry bro poor fish they didnt have a chance probaly on purpose, they where sent to there death with that method of shipping.........

[White Worm]

I'd like to stress that this may be true for discus, but I've gotten some really nice cichlids from reputable people on AquaBid. My port cichlids, some of my kribensis, and my Uaru all came from AquaBid and I'm really, really happy with them.

Doing research on AquaBid is no different than researching sellers on forums or in classifieds. If they don't specifically go over all the details of a guarantee in an auction, it's best to contact them. I contact every seller who has fish that I'm interested in and ask for 3 things: Where did the fish come from (did you breed it, is it wild-caught, etc.), are there pictures of the actual fish for sale and the parents (if applicable), and what is your guarantee on shipping and satisfaction (if I get a fish that is not what you advertised it as, what will you do about it?).

In my experience, the dishonest sellers will tell you that their camera is broke, the fish "look just like the ones in the pictures", etc. Asking a bunch of questions usually weeds those types out. It's also my experience that people who are proud of their fish will gladly answer your questions and enjoy the interest in their fish. The guy I got my port cichlids from exchanged emails with me for 3 days about his grow-outs and his pair, etc. :D

Ryan

You are correct, I should have specified. I have only seen, done the research and purchased discus (learned my lesson once). I have not looked into other species on aquabid. I refer to the discus only. And....there are a few sellers that are good and thats why I stressed most but not all are crooks. Thats pretty funny, you can sell all these fish and make this money but you cant invest in a simple digital camera, whatever! My favorite is the blurry picture of what looks to be a discus, lol. When purchasing anything, ask lots of questions and make it clear what you want. You wouldnt buy a car that you never test drove, discussed options or have seen in person, would you?

[Squiggy]

You wouldnt buy a car that you never test drove, discussed options or have seen in person, would you?

Well...I certainly won't do that....again...:crazy:

[White Worm]

Well...I certainly won't do that....again...:crazy:

I should have guessed.....LOL :p

[JeffreyRichard]

Your chances are 70-80% of getting ripped off on aquabid.

That seems a bit of an overstatement ... is this your experience? I've purchased over $1000 worth of fish and plants over 4 years ... the vast majority of my experiences have been positive. Sure, I've been ripped off several times, but that amounts to less than 10% of my purchases. There are some great values to be had, and some really interesting stuff you often can't get elsewhere.

That said,it does APPEAR that a sizable number of Discus vendors are, shall we say, less than stand-up. Although I have bought some nice discus via aquabid.

i consider my aquabid purchases as expendable ... if I get a bad deal, oh well. I've been fortunate enough to come out way on the positive side of the leadger.

[CODISCUS]

I recently purchased a pair of Virgin Reds from EVENPARDISCUS and goods were damaged during or before shipment. Fish is a cull. It swims with it's tail straight up in the air. I also bought a group of Albino Snakeskins. They are 9 bar and not 14. Sorry this is not a Snakeskin. I clearified before ordering and I have an e-mail stating that fish is a 14 bar. Her is the response per Joe's e-mail:

Mike,
I know that you are a seller too, I only guarantee DOA with full refund or replacement, will not guarantee if damage during delivery and you should know that as a seller. Those are ss and the parents are albino and ss mix. The pair I sold you was exactly the breeding pair I took out from the tank.

I've attached some pics for your viewing pleasure.

Mike Beals

[White Worm]

You are correct, I should have specified. I have only seen, done the research and purchased discus (learned my lesson once). I have not looked into other species on aquabid. I refer to the discus only. And....there are a few sellers that are good and thats why I stressed most but not all are crooks.


That seems a bit of an overstatement ... is this your experience?
That said,it does APPEAR that a sizable number of Discus vendors are, shall we say, less than stand-up. Although I have bought some nice discus via aquabid.

i consider my aquabid purchases as expendable ... if I get a bad deal, oh well. I've been fortunate enough to come out way on the positive side of the leadger.
When I spend my money on something I want, it is never expendable. I prefer to spend my money and get exactly what I want and nothing less. With the cost of some discus, expendable could mean big loss of $$. As I said, I only have looked mostly at discus, you may be able to get great deals on other things through aquabid. I cant say everyone is a crook and I didnt. I said that there are numerous crooks (probably a higher % than good ones) that are selling discus and you should be very careful and make sure you are getting what is advertised and make sure you are clear on what you want. Even then, you still take your chances on aquabid when you could just as well contact some great sponsors here who can usually get or locate you anything you want. I know that Dave and some other sponsors here sell through aquabid and I think they fit into that smaller % of honest breeders/sellers. If you take some time and scan through alot of the pictures.....they are blurry, same picture for different strains being sold, dark pictures where you cant even see what you are buying, dont own a camera, dont have pictures of actual fish but have picture of some adult, using the same year old picture, picture at a bad angle, etc. I can name 3 of the top sellers (most adds) of discus on aquabid that are crooks or mislead buyers. Those are the ones to stay away from. I didnt have to spend $1,000's to learn a lesson. $100's was plenty for me. I'm positive that there are good sellers on aquabid but I prefer to take the local route or deal with respected and proven breeders. I'm sure I make take chances with aqua bid if it were a couple of bucks here or there for plants or small items. I have done that but not on a large scale. My % may be a little exaggerated though ;) :)

[roclement]

Sorry for your bad experience...

I never bought on aquabid, my personal experience has always been great doing business with established resellers such as the sponsors from this site. I buy other fish as well, such as very expensive stingrays, all shipped with no problem, but from reputable, established sellers. Things that I consider are the source - captive bred or wild - reputation and time in business, and most importantly, past experience from people I know and trust, this is were this forum is great, you can always post a question before buying, and wait for the responses. : )

Good luck seeking your refund, they should pay you back, if not contact your credit card company or pay-pal.

JMO

Rod

[Kenny's Discus]

just checked it again and saw this...another established seller complaining of receiving damaged/sick fish with you know what...No Refund again. Very sad.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/vfb.cgi?&&vfb&Evenpardiscus

Kenny