Discus Hobbyist Hangs in the Balance...

[Djinn]

Greetings all...
I am a resurrected fish hobbyist. Did several tanks in Highschool and also in college (mostly salt) but its been about 15 years now and I thought gee - why not do a nice little discus tank for the family? Well I am two weeks into cycling the tank and I was seriously intent on going with discus - but just don't know if that's going to happen now. So please if you can help answer some of my more mechanical questions.

First the setup: 35 gallon Hex tank, planted. I have running currently both an under gravel filter as well as a normal filter. I have it currently set at 82 degrees and am watching and waiting for my tank to mature with a couple of bleeding hearts providing all the waste materials to jump start it.

Now the questions:

1. My ph out of the tap is like 7.4... and I'm finding discus buffer is taking forever to drop the ph of the tank. I think I'm at like 7.0 or so right now but have been dropping oodles of the stuff (ok, exactly what the bottle recommends, no one freak) into the tank every day. Here's my question... I see that I need to do daily water changes... fine. But if it isn't cost effective and relatively easy to do day in and day out I'll just buy piranha and be done with it.

Anyone out there know of a simple and repetitive way to do water changes and get the water somewhere near where the discus want it to be every 24 hours? I've read all the posts about peet and drift wood - but would I also need to put them in my water setup place too? I don't want to introduce high ph water even if the drift and peet will take care of it... no?

2. Are bleeding hearts a bad idea with discus? Don't mind ditching them - I mean releasing them in the wild - if they aren't, but the LFS recommended them and now I'm wondering if they move to fast for Discus.

3. My LFS recommended buying 2 discus when I get around to it "from there experience way better than 3". But everything I've been reading counters that directly.

4. I assume I need to buy a kit to test hardness. Are there cheap ones out there that get the job done? And once I know my hardness what do I do to bring it down?

5. My LFS also said to avoid the more bizarre discus (melons, etc) because they probably won't be as hardy? Any thoughts on that front?

Bottom line - I really want to walk away enjoying this. And they sound like fun fish and well worth the hassle. But if I can't get the water squared away - I'm thinking a stack of lame duck angels may be a better bet. Can't stand settling though. So all help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance everyone.
Taylor

[GrillMaster]

Hi Dj....Welcome to Simply D!!

A 35G hex is to small for discus. Dont even try. You will find yourself running into all sorts of problems. If the 35G was BB with nothing else in it, it would really be pushing the limit for Discus. If you did a 50% WC everyday, you might get away with 3-4, but that is really stretching it.

As far as your LFS tryin to sell you 2 Discus, Tell him for me 2 Discus in a tank by themselves dont work!! They are very social fish, an unless they are together with 4 or 5 at least, they will just darken up, hide, an wither away.

Dont listen to whatever the lfs is tryin to tell you!!

I know this is your first post, an you really want to get into Discus, but really research this further, an you will find that you will be buying a 55G at least. Setting it up right, an purchasing about 6 very nice fish from the sponsors here on SD!!

You will in no way find better fish anywhere than here!!;)

[ShinShin]

A 35 hex is all wrong for discus. Actually, any hex is all wrong for discus ;) . If you buy 2 discus, one will become the dominant fish, constantly badgering the weaker one. It will eat most of the food as well. If the submissive discus survives the many stress related diseases it will acquire from these conditions, it will be ~ 40% smaller than the dominant discus.

I would come up with another plan, like a bigger, rectangular tank of at least 55gal with 6 discus, or consider a hex tank full of various barbs.

Mat

[Polar_Bear]

I agree with those above, your tank is all wrong for discus, and your lfs obviously doesn't have a clue about them. btw your water is fine as is, there is no need to do anything to it, but again, you have the wrong tank. I don't know if you were joking about the piranha, but they would also be a bad idea in your tank, they are too big and are also schooling fish. A few angels would work, along with some larger tetras and corys. Another thing to note is you should get rid of the undergravel filter regardless of the fish you decide to keep, they are far more trouble than they are worth IMO. Discus need high Oxygen (O2) levels, the surface area of a hex will never be able to provide enough O2, especially given the higher temperature needs of discus (O2 levels drop as temperature increases). My suggestion would be to choose some fish that can handle your tank, anabantoids would be a good choice (gouramis, siamese fighting fish etc.).

[mench]

I also agree with above posts..as for "discus worth the hassel" I you think that keeping discus is going to be a hassel...well I suggest that you stick with Angels...
Keeping discus is not hard at all as long as you follow the KISS method...Do your homework first...read,ask tons of questions..get your self a tank and equipment as large as you can afford...and when you are ready to buy fish,I would look for a breeder in your area rather than a fish store.
As for getting your water lower...well my ph out of the tap is 7.2 - 7.4...I do water changes every day right out of the tap,without doing anything to the water.My breeders are the only ones that get differnt water,I use 50% r/o for them so I can get a larger hatch rate.
So start gathering all the knowledge,write it down in a book if you have to and have fun.
Good luck

Mench

[LizStreithorst]

As much as I''d like to see a new Discus hobbyest, I have to agree with everyone else here.

Go with a 55. Get 6 4" or larger Discus to put in it.

Some people have to age their water, some don't. If there is a large pH swing between water straight from the tap and water that has been aerated for 24 hrs. it's best to age. In any case, there are people who raise Discus in pH 10. Stability is the key.

IMO, with adult Discus you could get away with a large WC twice weekly. If you can go straight from the tap, great! If you need to age, set a rubbermaid on the stand underneath the tank and stick an air stone and heater in it. When your ready to change water, just hook up a pump and pump the water into the tank. WC doesn't need to be a PITA if you're set up for it. Just ask those of us with 30 or more tanks!

I hope you decide to join us. Keeping Discus can be so rewarding.

[Djinn]

ok. Great feed back. Let me see if I get this right. A 35 gallon hex is all wrong mainly because of 2 reasons:

1) surface area of a hex will limit oxygen levels and be difficult (don't know if I understood this fully) if not impossible to maintain.
2) 2 is a really really bad idea.
3) 3 discus must not be optimal for some reason although that hasn't been very clearly defined (althought it has been very clearly dog piled)

Obviously you guys are very experienced and know this stuff inside and out. But I think one comment made by Polar Bear really makes me doubt what you guys are saying about the hex not working. He said: "I don't know if you were joking about the piranha, but they would also be a bad idea in your tank, they are too big and are also schooling fish". I have personal experience growing 3 enormous piranha in a 20 gallon high before. I mean, think Jaws class fish. I was tossing 20 gold fish in the tank a day right before I sold them to jump into salt water.

I do appreciate the feedback but I don't really fully understand why it is that, although a 35 hex is suboptimal, it wouldn't work at the end of the day. Please don't assume I am disagreeing with you. I just haven't heard quantifiable justifications for the points you guys have all been making.

Aslo, if someone could explain the O2 issues that you all have mentioned (surface area etc etc) and talk through why it is that that would be bad and the reasons these issues couldn't be overcome some how. 55 would be great. But space restrictions determined the 35 hex - not money. The 55 I was looking at was actually cheaper. So if I could have I would have jumped higher. So back to this original question - how will the hex be bad oxygen-wise and how are these issues not overcome-able (word?)?

I really am not trying to be disrespectful - I just want to challenge you on your assumptions and in order to hear the data behind your assumptions. I am sure you guys have it - I just haven't heard it yet.

Thanks so much for bearing with me - and for your really valuable input.
Taylor

[poconogal]

Taylor -
A hex tank has less surface area for gas exchange (carbon dioxide/oxygen) which is why they aren't ideal. You can keep more fish in a rectangular 35 than you can a hex 35 because of the surface area. You really can't compare Piranhas to Discus as far as conditions they can be kept under. That'd be like comparing an apple to a steak! :D Also, even though you have grown and kept 3 large Piranhas in a 20 g, that doesn't mean that the conditions were optimal for the fish. When it comes to Discus, we prefer to give our Discus the most optimal conditions we can, and then some.

As far as 3 discus, it is better to have more. 5 or 6 would be better, the more Discus, the more any aggression will be disbursed. With only 3 Discus, there will be one that will most likely be constantly bullied by the other two, and it will lead to its sickness and death. You would then have only 2 Discus, and the problem with that has already been outlined in an earlier response. Even 4 Discus would be better than 3, although again, 5 or 6 would be better.

Can you fit a 45 gallon tall tank in your space? Its dimensions are the same as a 30 g - 36 x 12 x 24 high. Years ago, I started with Discus in a 45 g tank like that and have successfully kept 5 in there with no problem, with good aeration.

HTH,
Connie

[LizStreithorst]

Lost of people don't follow the rules and are successful. Give it a try and see if it works. If you do, I would suggest that you purchase a mated pair for your tank. I would check with the sponsors here. If no one has anything, check with me. I occasionally have mated pairs for sale.

1. As Bastalker pointed out, Discus are schooling fish and are happier in groups of 5 or more. Fewer, and one after another gets picked on until only the dominant fish (or a pair) remains.

2. A 35 is too small for 5 Discus. 10 gallons per fish is the recommendation.

3. Discus prefer to swim in the mid to lower levels of the tank. They grow large and need a little elbow room. With a 35 hex, you have a tall tank with little swimming room.

Hope this clarifies the issue for you a bit.

[FishLover888]

Anyway, Discus are expensive and very sensitive to water quality. You could give it a try on the 35 g. I would say if you are doing lots of water changes, you should able to do it. The problem is, most people can not do that for the long run and ended up with sick or dead fish.

People use 20 g tanks for breading discus so I would say you are ok with 2 in the 35 g tank. As Liz said, you will need a mated pair (not cheap, have few $100 bills ready). Otherwise, one will pick on the other and soon you will ended with one in the tank.

[Jeckel]

I don't know the dimensions of a 35 hex but I'm not sure oxygen would be a limiting factor for two discus. I have two adult discus in a 29 H along with a ram, a cory, two bamboo shrimp, and a bunch of trumpet snails, and they're doing fine. You'd have to strongly filter/aerate the water, and although this may not be a natural environment for discus, I think they can adjust to it.

The problem, as others have noted, is that the 35 couldn't support enough discus to diffuse the aggression. But I think a mated pair would do fine (the cost would probably be prohibitive, thought).

Djinn, were you joking about releasing the bleeding hearts in the wild if they don't work out? That's never an option.

[darkstargm]

Just my 2 cents--- I am running 2 BareBottom 30 gal breeder tanks each with four discus and i use hydor aerators . The setup seams to work with lots of varied food, particularily frozen hikari blood worms. But there is always a bully in each tank. And each tank does have max surface area at 36 x 18. Just a thought for small setups.

[johnm]

taylor, I also have a 35hex due to space limitations and keep 4 discus juvies and 7 cardinals with no problem. I do a 60-70% w/c every 3-4 days depending on work schedule and try and squeeze in a 10-15% w/c on at least 1 other day in between. I feed 4 times daily and overfilter. The tank is not a bb either.

[Bainbridge Mike]

Hi Taylor:

Growing out baby discus--and getting them to reach their full potential--can be a real challenge. Discus need optimal conditions to grow--more so than any other fish I have kept. If you are determined to get some discus for your 35 hex, then as others have suggested, a mated, compatible adult pair would be the way to go. It might work.

Gas exchange only happens at the water surface. An air stone does not of itself get much O2 into the water column. It is the surface agitation caused by the bubbles that promotes CO2/O2 exchange. So the reason a hex tank is more challenging is that you have more water volume and less surface area (as compared to a rectangular tank). You can mitigate this problem by having lots of surface agitation.

The reason that three is not a good number is that cichlids establlish a pecking order. If you have six or more, the agression gets spread around better. With just two (nonpaired fish) or three--then one fish ends up getting harassed all the time, gets stressed and dies.

Good luck,
Mike

[aquaticplantman]

I'll add something here... and I hope not too many people get offended. The main question seems to be wether or not the discus can live in this smaller tank. Well, as many people have said, yes they may survive just fine. But in discus world, there's a big difference between just surviving versus growing into large round healthy discus. Now there will be some people coming in to say "I grew five discus to adulthood in a 29 gallon tank and they're all 7 inch monsters". Well, that would be the exception. So really, if you're stuck with the limited space, and you want to "do it right", you're only option is to get a mated pair as has already been suggested.

-- Matt H.

[aquaticplantman]

Mike ninja posted again! His first paragraph is the same as mine.

[ShinShin]

That's is correct, Matt. The above post which states that 4 discus and 7 cardinals are being kept with the minimal amout of w/c's in a nonbarebottom tank sees no problems now, in 1 year will have 4 discus that look like juvies still, most likely will have brown eyes and have suffered several stress related ailments which too much money will be spent on medications. Maybe only 3 will still be alive. Just my thoughts on that one. ;)

Mat

[Cosmo]

I can relate to your space problem. Had a severe one about 20 years ago and got a 45 gal hex tank to put Discus in. After that experience I swore I'd never put Discus in a hex tank again and I haven't. My daughter has Angel's in a 42 gal hex and they're doing just fine, but I'd highly recommend against putting Discus in one.

If you end up doing it anyway, I'd suggest a lot of aeration... air stones with a good pump so you get LOTS of surface agitation to get enough gas exchange.

Jim

[Djinn]

Thanks everyone for your honest feedback...
That was very informative and highly intriguing. As the new guy on the block I really appreciate your responses and your experience as it pertains to my situation.

I'm currently looking for a pair - and we'll see how that goes. I am sure the bill will be a large one. But would be totally worth it to find a pair. Otherwise I'm guessing gold fish may be the way to go. hehe. We'll see.

Since I have your attention could I ask one more really stupid question. While I have read probably 300 pages of information over the last week I haven't seen a very clear concise guide to how to setup my water. I know that that is because everyone's water is different - but what are the basics?

For ex. I hear talk of aerating, aging, dechlorinating, ph-ing, de-hardnessing, centerfuging (joking) etc etc. I'd be nice to see a logical diagram (an if/then set of logic written in VB would be perfect) saying IF - Water is Hard (parameters) use RO water THEN compensate for trace minerals etc etc. Do you know what I mean? But maybe I'm dreaming. I am beginning to pull all the random pieces of information together but there seems to be alot of random dependencies that I am sorting out by myself. (If Peet & Drift THEN don't x y z... etc)

Thanks again everyone you've been really helpful.
Taylor

[Graham]

KISS principle..............water from the tap into a large bucket, use de-chlor, heat to desired temp, use an airstone, let sit overnight and then use it.

Until there's a reason don't chase numbers, you'll drive yourself crazy.............your fish will adapt to just about any water parameter that you can give them...they want stability, not you messing around

[Bainbridge Mike]

Taylor:

Unless your water is extremely hard, you won't need RO. Is your house on a public water supply or private well? If you are on a public system, then you need to know what your water company uses to treat the water--chlorine or chloramine. It is also helpful to test your water for pH right out of the tap--and to also test it after letting it sit overnight in a bucket with a heater and airstone.

Give us more info on your water and we can give you the scoop!

Mike

[Djinn]

Ok, here's what I know:

I am on city water and out of the tap it is probably 7.4 (the disdain you hear in my voice is the inacuracy of these color bar tests). I have let a gallon of water sit half a day (will test it tonight and will know the full 24 hours) with air and I didn't see any color change (another inaudible grrrr inexplicably escapes my tightly clinched lips) in the ph test. (Does that mean I probably don't have chlorine?)

I like Graham's KISS policy. I have tried jacking with my tank's PH and haven't gotten it to drop much. One question I do have is if I put peet in and drift do I need to drop my incomming water to match the water of the tank WITH those two items (which I assume will drop the ph some, no?)

Thanks!
tay

[Graham]

chlorine does not affect ph levels, that's up to the CO2 that 's within the water...it gases off and pH goes up

[Bainbridge Mike]

7.4 is actually pretty good. A lot of folks have much higher pH and still do just fine. The easiest way to figure out the chlorine/chloramine question is to just call your water company. Chloramine is chlorine + Ammonia (it is more stable and harder to break down than chlorine). Alternatively, test your tap water for Ammonia and if it is in your tap water, you have chloramine (yuck). Hopefully, you just have chlorine. In which case, the chlorine gasses off if you heat and aerate your water overnight. I still use prime anyway--to be sure and also to bind up metals.

Mike

[LizStreithorst]

I agree with Mike. 7.4 'ain't bad. I know of people who keep Discus successfully in pH !)!!!! The key is stability.
As Mike said, you need to find out if your water company uses chlorine or chloramine. It will determine how you should proceed.
For get about using any kind of pH stabilizer ie.Discus buffer. The key is stability.
Get a pH kit, a small air pump, and an air stone. Run your water for a few seconds, collect a sample and test the pH. Collect another sample and aerate it overnight and test the pH again. See what the difference is. The key is stability.

[Djinn]

Ok,
I had started an overnight sample last night and I just tested it and it looks like everything stayed very much the same. (PH wise that is.) 7.4 - maybe even 7.2? Blue is blue is blue to me. What do I know? <soap box commentary>They should create digital readouts for these tests.</soap box commentary> Bottom line is that the blue from yesterday is the same as the blue today. Which I estimate to be somewhat between 7.0 and 7.4... 7.2 call it? Who knows.

Now I really liked Mike's idea on the ammonia/chloramine test. So I just ran downstairs and tested ammonia out of the tap. Nada... came out yellow (like that test: Yellow and Green are very different colors to my eye. Anyway... so it may have chlorine still - but definitely no Chloramine?

I really like your idea Liz about ditching the Discus Buffer. $20 worth of like a month I calculate. Probably should just mail you a 10% cut each month from the savings. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Here's a wierd question for you. Should I force the ph back up or should I water change it back up? The reason I ask is I'm still cycling the tank and I thought water changes would be a BAD idea during the cycle. No? Don't I want the ammonia and the nitrates and nitrites to do their thing without putting clean water in?

Great you guys - I think I owe each of you a beer. Let me know where I should mail each of you a pint of Guiness. (I may have to learn how you guys ship your discus for you to receive your pints in tact though.)

Thanks again.
taylor

[pcsb23]

Ok,
I had started an overnight sample last night and I just tested it and it looks like everything stayed very much the same. (PH wise that is.) 7.4 - maybe even 7.2? Blue is blue is blue to me.
7.2 to 7.4 = fine. no action needed


What do I know? <soap box commentary>enough to ask questions = good, keep asking


They should create digital readouts for these tests.They do, Hanna and a few other companies make them and not too expensive = ease of use and accuracy!


</soap box commentary> Bottom line is that the blue from yesterday is the same as the blue today. Which I estimate to be somewhat between 7.0 and 7.4... 7.2 call it? Who knows.Key is no change = stability = good, no action needed


Now I really liked Mike's idea on the ammonia/chloramine test. So I just ran downstairs and tested ammonia out of the tap. Nada... came out yellow (like that test: Yellow and Green are very different colors to my eye. Anyway... so it may have chlorine still - but definitely no Chloramine? Almost certainly chlorine present = age or use dechlor


I really like your idea Liz about ditching the Discus Buffer. $20 worth of like a month I calculate. Probably should just mail you a 10% cut each month from the savings. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Double win, stability and saving money = very good



Here's a wierd question for you. Should I force the ph back up or should I water change it back up? The reason I ask is I'm still cycling the tank and I thought water changes would be a BAD idea during the cycle. No? Don't I want the ammonia and the nitrates and nitrites to do their thing without putting clean water in?How are you cycling the tank?



Great you guys - I think I owe each of you a beer. Let me know where I should mail each of you a pint of Guiness. (I may have to learn how you guys ship your discus for you to receive your pints in tact though.)

Thanks again.
taylorSomeone say Guiness? ;)

[GrillMaster]

Someone say Guiness? ;)

Paul... Right outta the tap at the nearest pub.:D

[pcsb23]

Paul... Right outta the tap at the nearest pub.:D
Where is my passport?....

[s10_xtreme]

Just read over some of your posts and I think you would be better off getting fish that would be easier to look after. Kinda ease you way back into the hobby.
Keeping Piranha can be challanging but Discus are alot more tempermental as far as water conditions.( At the moment I breed both )
Also wanted to know what size you considered enormous piranhas that you raised in the 20g?
A 20g is absolutely way to small for even 1 piranha to grow, let alone 3.

[GrillMaster]

Also wanted to know what size you considered enormous piranhas that you raised in the 20g?
A 20g is absolutely way to small for even 1 piranha to grow, let alone 3.

I was thinking the same thing...It is really disheartening to see people try an raise fish in the worst possible conditions they can, instead of looking out for the fish they are actually tryin to keep.

Sure....You can put 5 discus in a 20G do 100% WC's a day, feed the crap out of em, stunt thier growth, but they will be healthy.

Is this what is best for the Discus? No, probably not!!

If you are considering a pair, just leave the pair in there with nothing else, an leave it BB.

When they spawn, you can put the fry in a goldfish bowl since ya dont have the room.

If you dont have the room, try other fish for your 35G hex! When you get the room, give discus a try...

Sorry for the less than exuberant advice, an technical explanations, but I really am passionate about the hobby, AND THE FISH.

[Djinn]

How are you cycling the tank?


Thanks for your detailed response pcsb23... as for the cycling I dropped a couple bleeding hearts in there. Gave it some snake oil that probably isn't doing anything... but otherwise just testing the levels. How SHOULD I be doing it?

Towards that end - I need to get my tanks ph back to tap (currently at 6.6) - so do I just do water changes to do that? Or should I be waiting for the cycle to complete before I do changes? Obviously I'd like it to go as quickly as possible. Bleeding hearts are fun and all... but.

Anyway thanks again.
Taylor

[Djinn]

If you are considering a pair, just leave the pair in there with nothing else, an leave it BB.

The point in going bare bottom and only those two being what? Just curious what that prevents and why that is so critical. I thought the "rule" was 10 gallons an adult. Seems a bit extreme. But I'm the new guy obviously.



When they spawn, you can put the fry in a goldfish bowl since ya dont have the room.

I could find spots for 10s and 20s all day. But I don't currently have the room for dropping a 55 in the middle of my thoroughly furnitured living room.

I get it that 6 fish are best... in a BIG tank. You've all made that abundantly clear. And I also understand that this elite hobby is tricky. Caveat Emptor, got it. But so far I'm finding it nowhere near as difficult as a salt tank. No offense. Sure, there's more to it than gold fish and siamese fighting fish. Obviously. Don't get me wrong - I've loved all the posts and the information I've found here and elsewhere in other threads... so thanks for that. But the pie in the sky seems a bit much.

Tay

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

Hi Djinn, you got a run down from everyone and willn't exceed the pressure.
Discus keeping is a wonderful hobby so when you get a chance. Give it a try. Goodluck.

"Sometimes I think that being a Discus can't be so bad, but than again
when I look so good :gorgeous: I may get eaten. :wave:
(Armandi_Fishcarer)"

[GrillMaster]

Listen Taylor...Alot of people here gave you their time, excellent advice, an a way that you can can manage a pair of discus in yer 35G hex tank.

IMO...All yer doin is yankin everyones chain, an wasting alot of valuable information that was givin to you.

If you have any other questions...

Read this.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=27180

[Djinn]

If you read my posts from the beginning then you know that I was open to whatever information was thrown at me. Since I started this thread I abandoned the thought (given by the all-knowing LFS) that I could drop 4 or 5 juvies in there and sell them as time goes by. I've reevaluated my thoughts on my tap ph and issues with hardness. And I've investigated a number of new configuration options (including mated pairs).

Ok, I'll admit that I would like to make it work. You can each understand why that is. At the end of the day though, am I going to throw away $500 a mated pair by putting them in a situation that wouldn't work ultimately? No, I won't. Basic economics will guide me there. But the bottom line for me is that the posts in this thread have been invaluable.

So - as I've said all along - will it work? Sounds like it could. Should it be done? Dunno. From my point of view (and forgive me here, I'm not too clear on fish ethics) 17.5 gallons per adult discus is above and beyond what everyone else is recommending and it may be a pretty posh setup. But I get it that there are extremely varied opinions on this (yours included) front. And there may be better ways to utilize the space... angels or whatever. As this discussion unfolded I started investigating other fish very thoroughly and will continue to do so up until the moment the tank is ready probably.

My apologies to those of you who's time I've wasted. From my perspective each of you have been beneficial to me and have educated me in ways no simple FAQ or book could (believe me I've read both). So you each have my unyielding thanks, including you bastalker. I realize that you only want what's best for the fish. That's admirable. And I will keep this and everything else I've learned here in mind as I make my (now) thoroughly informed decision.

Thanks.
t

[GrillMaster]

Taylor,

I would like to apologize for my reckless posts!! I would also like to apologize for insinuating you were wasting anyones time.

That being said, the pair in a 35 hex would probably work as others have said.

Would I do it? No I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean that you couldn't.

Anyways, good luck with whatever path you choose to take.

I will shut up now...

[pcsb23]

Taylor,

Just for the record, I personally wouldn't put any fish in a hex tank of any dimensions (unless I could swim in it ;)) They tend to be too tall and the surface area is compromised for gas exchange and the swimming room is much reduced. With low stocking levels this isn't a major problem though. But you don't have a lot of latitude in a 35gal tank anyway. It does not mean a pair would not do well in there though. I would not go more than a pair either.

As for reef tanks being harder, well I beg to differ on that one :) having had both at the same time the reef was a breeze, maybe I'm lucky though! And I appreciate the heat was rising some but elite or elitism?? in the hobby?? passion definitely, elitism I think not.

As for cycling I would strongly recommend removing the bleeding hearts, cleaning the tank out thoroughly and cycle it using the fish less cycle. This method uses pure ammonia and does not introduce any risk from pathogens on other fish. Why spend big bucks on a nice pair of discus to put them in a potentially compromised tank? Discus only become tricky when people don't provide the right environment for them or break some quite simple rules. If you have kept reefs before you will have an understanding of water quality, if you had hard corals (SPS) then you begin to get the idea. Discus need pristine water, give them that and good food and they reward you time and time again. You will (or should) change way more water with discus than you ever did with a reef tank.

There are many good articles on Simply re the fish less cycle, do a search (powerful tool) but if you can't find any info let me know.

Whatever you choose to do at least you have tried to gather information first, either way I wish you luck.

[mmorris]

But I don't currently have the room for dropping a 55 in the middle of my thoroughly furnitured living room.
Tay
Do you have more furniture in the living room than you really need? Martha