Do you keep heckels currently?

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
I have been asked to start a section that will be dedicated to Heckels... Their husbandry, requirements etc.. The end goal is to have a comprehensive body of knowledge on heckels that will enable hobbyists to successfully breed these discus.

Please post here and let us know if you currently raise heckels and if so how many you have? This will help us to determine the bestway to discuss this suggestion.
Thanks,
al

[AmberC]

I dont have any.. but I did and I wouldn't mind having a couple and certainly wouldn't mind reading all about them on their own forum!!

[poconogal]

Don't have any, don't particularly like them either, so I doubt I'd ever keep them.

[Cosmo]

I had some, but my last one just died about 4 months ago :cry: He was a Monster too :cry:

If life permits, I'll be getting more because I love these fish. Couldn't vote I'd get them in less than a year because don't know if circumstances will permit or not... over a year for sure :)

Jim

[Apistomaster]

Hi Heckel Lovers,
I raised this issue in the context of another thread, that of establishing what I called the Heckel Study group. The Heckels are not necessarily the most beautiful of all wild discus but just as not all wild discus are Royal Blues or 200 spot red spotted greens, there are exceptional Heckels that easily give any other discus a run for their money. But one thing the Heckel has going for it is that they are remarkabley consistent in their colors and distictive central stripe and contiuous horizontal striations. They are also different in their dispositions. They are a mellow discus, one that can be kept with others but is happiest in their own company.
More important is they present a great challenge to breed. Think about this. They are the first discus discovered and have been in the hobby over 60 years but yet they have only been successfully bred very few times while the other wild types have probably been bred hundreds of thousands of times to say nothing about the fact that domesticated discus are farmed and produced in innumerable quantities.
In all these years an aquarium strain of Heckels has yet to become established. I think that is a challenge that we should try to meet. Our knowledge of discus keeping as a group of fish, all the advances in aquarium technology, and the numbers of aquarists attracted to the special qualities that the wild type discus have almost cries out for us to make advances in our knowledge and skills required to breed Heckels in our time.
We have the opportunity to pioneer a whole new phase of discus keeping and breeding before us if we so choose.
It is my hope that those who are interested in this project will join in and in the tradition on which simplydiscus was founded, we share our experiences, insights, failures and successes and eventually produce aquarium strains of Heckels better adapted to life in captivity and free of the diseases that plague the wild fish.
This just a preamble. We have much to learn and share with each other.
Larry Waybright

[Moon]

I used to keep them many years ago and a pair did lay eggs. Unfortunately had to give them up due to family circumstances. BUT I have seven coming in on Sunday. They will go into a 75g QT tank and eventually join my Altums in a 125g. They are young at 3 to 3.5in and will require lots of TLC. In about 18 months they should be ready for some trials.
Joe

[discfan]

:) Hello i'am new on the block! First Post!
I've been reading threads for about a month now. Then I saw this thread on Heckles. Just what the doctor ordered. Hope this project takes off and does well. I had Heckles and Green discus back in the early 80's. Kind of crude equipment back then with lots of problems with PH crashes and such. Never had any lot with breeding them much less trying to keep them alive for a year. We have much better equipment to work with these days, R/O units, fillters, and such. Had to make a major move back then and hung it up. But I always wanted to get back at it, so about a month ago I started up a 60gal tall tank. Everything is looking good so far just about ready to add Heckles. Running a sump fillter with large bio wheel and two Jad sponge fillters, PH 6.8 KH 5 My local LPS has some nice Heckels and Greens that came in, best I have seen in years.

[tatore]

When I read "heckel" i read "life"...it's the total interest taking me all my free time.
Different language (I'm italian) inhibites me to be clear...
However, I have at home about 18 heckels, in an aquarium, at least totally dedicated to their life and study.
In other tanks I breed Green, alenquer (just one) and blu discus, and in another tank just fry from alenquerXsemi-royal, about 80 small discus.

Ok, the focus is "heckel".
By myself I've turned back and separated them just becouse I've observed how the most important game in heckel's life is played by pH, soft water, wood (peaty), peat, black water, low light, and feeding...a beat different (I assume totally) from other discus.

I've seen spawning them several times, but space and time don't allow me to follow the fry, and it becomes impossible to grow up fry in a tank with 16 other discus...but it isn't impossible.

Somewhere, here in simplydiscus I've posted in the past some spawning picture of a heckel while fecunding eggs..don't know where.

Unsuccesfull!!! I didn't like for 1st alenquerXheckel, and 2nd pH too low was becoming fatal for alenquer....so I broke the pair.

From the low of my experience I say that heckels aren't easy, but I find more difficult other fishes, requiring continous treatment against lots of deseases, while heckel is able to raise his life with a good quality of water and a low pH.

Several times I had for free heckel waiting for death from my favourite importer, and now I'm sure they are the best I have, how? Respecting a beat what goes on in nature.
Never less than 10 heckels in a tank, never temperature over 28°C, never pH over 5,6, never fresh water not-prefiltered on peat, never lots of changes in the tank, never chemical additions, only peat, few light, floating plants, and peace around tank.

I treat them really in a total different way, they can't live with other discus, and other tetras not always resist in a low pH, so any choice you make only the time and experience may suggest you if it is ok or not.

Water has to be black, they are scared from light (in wild the full moon too is an enemy for them), and the season make different water parameters and foods.

So I change, and for several months I don't change so much water, I don't care of No3, PO4, but I care for foods, that during this period has to be poor, may be some spiruline flake, some frozen krill, some dry food, and few times during the day (they have to need and look for food).

If water level goes down...that's better, I just care to watch the filter pump, has not to remain dry, and nothing else.

Afterward fresh r/o water, changes, lower temperature, 12 hours of light and proteinic live food (shrimps and grindal (aenchitreus albidus)), and you see fishes clening something, fighting, showing best colours and so on.

Heckel, as Larry said (Larry, it's a pleasure to read your posts, I'm a fan of you), isn't coloured, and who has heckels may understand that they show the best coluours in 2 cases: for spawning, and if there's an alpha individual.

In other cases, they remain "prune", even defending their piece of aquarium: in wild it's the best way to to camouflage themselves from predators.

Another and last observation (that Larry did): they could be ready to spawn after 2,5 years old, not before.

that's why I suggest always to take small individuals, not adults.
It's more difficult to convince an adult that his life will finish in our tanks, better to start with small baby heckels, and satisfactions in long time will arrive.


Sorry for my english.

[Squiggy]

Nice to see you back, tatore. ;)

[tatore]

Thank you, Squiggy.
Forgotten: an UV-C lamp is needed: bacteria are the serious danger in a closed-system for heckel (more than other discus), more than parasites and so on..they don't know how to defend themselves from a water-bacteria charge, usually they do not resist for long time: that's why an acid water is a good allied for heckels-

[brewmaster15]

Thank you for your post Salvo. :) I used to read Italian well.. but not for many years....I am first generation Italian -American...my family is from Alife.:)

I am sure your english is far better than my Italian!

You have shared some interesting information on heckels...I hope that you will participate in this endeavor here.

-al

[tatore]

Thanks, but I guess we all need to share our experence to grow up well.
That's what I do...my experience is going on..and i just share what my tanks "express", heckel for first.

[Ramon Anastacio]

I have four heckels. They are kept in water with pH 6-6.5, 50-80 microsiemens. While my other non-heckel wild discus do quite well in my tap water (pH 7.4), the heckels were not as active and did not show their best color when they were kept in tap water.

[mandisc]

WOW , outstanding collection of wild discus,Ramon Anastacio. !!! i bought 15pcs of WILD HECKELS but unfortunately only 4 still surviving......so far there is limited amount of WILD coming into SINGAPORE. maybe i would like to import more on my own. any reliable source out there that can ship WILD DISCUS to SINGAPORE at a reasonable price ???:D :D :D

[brewmaster15]

We have added the new section... it is called ..

The Heckel Project


I am moving this thread to that new section., but I'll leave the poll open.

Thanks,
al

[Lisachromis]

I think you need to either modify your last choice or add a choice.

I have none, but am planning on getting them in less than 1 year - should be something like this ---- I have none, but am planning on getting them in the future.

I wish I had a straight out and out timeframe on stuff like this. :)

Pretty tough when you've just moved house, and now have to make a new fishroom.... and then move ALL tanks yet. :crazy: :juggle:

[brewmaster15]

HI Lisa,
The poll was not exactly meant for any other reason except to see if it there was enough interest in heckels to warrant a section devoted to them:)



Pretty tough when you've just moved house, and now have to make a new fishroom.... and then move ALL tanks yet that should not be difficult to do in under a year and get some heckels as well....should it?:antlers::D


good luck with the move and set up.:)

[Lisachromis]

HI Lisa,
The poll was not exactly meant for any other reason except to see if it there was enough interest in heckels to warrant a section devoted to them:)


that should not be difficult to do in under a year and get some heckels as well....should it?:antlers::D


good luck with the move and set up.:)

LOL! Well... if you saw all the different fish I have.... and want to have.... and ... oh... too many fish and too little time!

[tatore]

I'd like to read Larry's opinion...

[ShinShin]

I have had Heckles several times over the years. I currently have 4 Nhumunda adults and 2 wild Heckle/blue discus crosses that are juveniles. The 4 adults are being housed with 6 wild RSG's in a 100 gal. long tank. The Heckles are the dominant species here. I have had the discus since 12/12/06.

I am currently keeping the temp at 31C and pH at 6.0. My intention is to keep them at a much lower pH, but I need to replace my broken pH probe. I am using a test kit meanwhile. There has been no Heckle pairing activity in this short time, other than 2 of the RSG's appear to be seperating themselves a bit.

In the past, I had an apparent male and female Heckle that, other than some activity from the male, was an exercise in futility. The female showed no interest. Even in a community tank with known sexed discus, many males courted her, but she never reciprocated their interest. The male, however, went crazy over an F1 wild royal blue X red turquois spawning female I placed with him. After 6 months, she refused to spawn. The Heckle male flashed brilliant colors at her, danced for her, harrased her to no end without success. I tried various temperature and pH combinations from 82-89F, pH readings from 6.5 down to 3.8. Nothing, which really perplexed me because she raised a bunch of spawns with an identical male as she. Finally, someone offered me twice what I paid for the 2 Heckles and I let them go. The WRB X RT female spawned about a month later with her original partner.

I have read and read about them. Therorized and experimented with them, and the only consolation I have received from my efforts is that even though I have not succeeded, neither has THE MAN - JW. ;) lol

I have suspected that there is one factor being overlooked and think it may be linked to diet. But, that is only me thinking that. No one else seems to mention it.

Mat (a different Larry, Salvo)

[brewmaster15]

I have suspected that there is one factor being overlooked and think it may be linked to diet. But, that is only me thinking that. No one else seems to mention it. Mat, actually its not just you, Jason from Superiordiscus and I have discussed this often over the years... I know he has tries various insects and I have even set up black lights to collect night bugs as food. I focus on the insects as its a likely source in my mind of whats missing.


I think there is a nutritional component as well.:)

-al

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
I am closing this thread .... At this point I think it best we start dedicated threads for each members heckel programs...

Salvo,
I split the note and photos that you posted for Apistomaster to its own thread. Could I ask you to start one as well for your tanks and program.

You and I had some interesting dialogues so far... but rather than it get lost, lets start a few threads specifically on them.

thanks again,
al