Raise buffering ability w/o buffer up?

[dragonlover]

How do you raise your water's natural buffering ability without adding buffer up? Say, if your alkalinity is 0?

My tank has been established for eight years, so not a new tank. The only difference (besides discus) is that I removed the peat from my cannister filter and set up a DIY co2 system. This is a 2L bottle on a 75 gallon planted tank (shouldn't be enough CO2 to matter, right?). I have a heavily planted tank. I thought I could get a little more ooomph out of CO2, but didn't want to overdo it.

I do have 5 large pieces of driftwood (1 mopani) in my tank. 3 of them are fairly new, but I boiled them first and my water is clear so I think tannins are leaching slow. Does this even matter to alkalinity?

See, I'm kinda dumb...please help?

[poconogal]

All I can say is that I had to remove my driftwood from my tank. From tap I have 4 dkh but in my tank it dropped to less than 2. Once I removed my wood, my KH rose back up to 4 in the tank.

[dragonlover]

From the tap my water is O. Is this wierd? How do you raise it (I'm thinking something would have to go in cannister filter basket b/c of water changes with 0 water)? Or, not really raise it, but is there an organic stabilizer?

[brewmaster15]

Hi Laura,
What are all your other water parameters? Everyone I know out there in your area has liquid rock for water.:)

-al

[dragonlover]

Yeah, exactly, that's why I added so much driftwood! My nitrates run 10-20 (high), nitrite 0, and gH to 120. However, my pH runs very low, and I am thinking this is linked ;) That's my problem, I can't seem to get my pH up from 5.8 or so--even with tap water 8.4+. Even with 50% water change. I know, it sounds like I'm making it up.....

[Graham]

Laura what is the KH out of the tap...........With a GH of 120ppm and a pH of 8.4 there has to be lots of buffering around....just do greater water changes.

Oyster shell, crushed coral, baking soda will all raise KH therefore rasing pH

[Apistomaster]

Something here is wrong. In order to drop your tapwater to pH 2.0 or 4.0 you would have to add phosphoric acid or similar. I would be looking for testing your pH by others or with a different method.
Driftwood be be very hard pressed to effect the pH down to those levels.
I suspect test operator or test kit error(s).
A quick and dirty multiparameter dip stick test will probably show that your pH is actually much closer to 7.0 plus or minus a few tenths.
Your buffering capacity would prevent readings as low as you report.
Most common fish will show distress and death at 4.0 and death for sure at pH 2.0. But that has not happened has it?
Let us know how this turns out. Please refrain from using anything to raise the buffering capacity or pH until you check this out more.

Larry W.

[Graham]

''.........tapwater to pH 2.0 or 4.0 you would.......''

Larry where are you getting these numbers from. Dragon L is talking 5.8??:confused:

[dragonlover]

Well, I'm not sure how to test carbonate hardness. I have a quick-dip 5 test strips and a liquid kit that only tests pH, ammonia, and nitrite.

Now I have another problem.....sigh. I went upstairs and my poor friends are at the surface. Did a water change and they're better, but I unhooked my DIY CO2. I wouldn't think a 2L bottle would be enough to poison a 75gallon, but not sure what else the problem could be. So, no more CO2 for me.

I'm not sure how water changes are going to help with my buffering ability since the water out of the tap is 0. What is even stranger is that with my water change today plus the water change yesterday I have replaced 75% water and still no pH raise???? I don't know what could be keeping it down....

[Graham]

Laura take a water sample from the tank and the tap into a local pet store and have test you water. Those little dip strips are about as accurate as the weatherman.

There's no way that you have 0.0ppm KH/alkalinity with a pH of 8.0 coming out of the tap

G

[brewmaster15]

I don't know what could be keeping it down... probably your Co2...especially if it was highj enough to affect your discus.

hth,
al

[dragonlover]

What kind of tester would you recommend? Someone showed me an automatic thing-a-ma-jig that seemed like it would be very cost efficient in the long run, but not sure about procedure to calibrate? Is this hard? And what do the electronic ones measure?

As far as taking water to the LFS, I have done that during this whole thing and their readings are the same as mine--one of the LFS uses the 5-in-1 strips and the other uses liquid. So no help from them....

What creates the ability to buffer in water? Also, I noticed that my test kits may not be accurate at such a low pH (under 6.0).

[Graham]

Laura it the carbonates (mainly saltwater) and bicarbonates (mainly freshwater) that buffer pH.........without them the pH crashes. For your tap water to have a pH of 8.0, you have bicarbonates. A very simple liquid KH test kit will give you an accurate reading.

The CO2/carbonic acid in water, as Al just mention can drive pH way way down...........crank up the air into the tank and then test the pH

Liquid test kits are accurate even in low pH water. The 5/1 dip strips are not accurate, even leaving the top off the bottle in a humid environment can mess them up.

[dragonlover]

Just updating to let everyone know I am stable now at 6.2! I added Chemi Pure to my cannister filter and did water changes. The pH then ran high, so I added peat back to the cannister also. Now I am good! Thanks everyone for the help.

I am still looking for a good test kit/tester.

[messickc]

Hi all!

I am new to the board and loving it!

Out of the tap, my GH is 3dh and KH is 4dh. But in my tank the GH rockets to 16dH while the KH remains unchanged. I recently upgraded to a larger aquarium, and as a result had to add more rocks. The rocks are natural, and not the coated, colored type. Is this the reason for the off-the-charts GH reading? If so, will it come back down over time and water changes, or should i remove some rocks? Or is the high GH not that big a problem?

I always age my replacement water for a day or two to allow the pH to stabilize before I condition it. I know KH is supposedly the more important parameter for pH stability, but I think the high GH is contributing to a continual rise in my tanks' pH. I set the pH of my replacement water to 6.4 just to keep it as low as that, plus I constantly have to add pH Down to the tank, which I know can't be that great for the fishes in it.

All other tank parameters are fine: NH4=0 N03=0 NO2=0 PO3=0.25 but pH=6.8 or more.
Sincerely,
Christopher Messick

[Darren's Discus]

Hi Christopher,
welcome to simply,Mate remove the rocks do a couple of good water changes and retest if it's still off the charts we will look at other things but i would start with removing the rock !


cheers

[messickc]

Hi Christopher,
welcome to simply,Mate remove the rocks do a couple of good water changes and retest if it's still off the charts we will look at other things but i would start with removing the rock !


cheers

Hi Darren....

Sorry it took so long to reply. The default of another message board that I frequent automatically subscribes you to threads when you reply....I just assumed no one had replied to this. But anyway...

I'll give that a go tonight and report later in the week after I've done a few changes.

Thanks!

[messickc]

Hi Darren.

I removed most of the rock like you said, and sure enough the hardness has decreased by half.

Since I doubt re-washing them would do any good, could I add them back little at a time allowing for each addition to leach their minerals before adding a little more? Or should I just find better rocks. I bought these at Wal-mart, and they are "Aqua" brand. I figured rocks are rocks.

[phidelt85]

Hi Darren.

I removed most of the rock like you said, and sure enough the hardness has decreased by half.

Since I doubt re-washing them would do any good, could I add them back little at a time allowing for each addition to leach their minerals before adding a little more? Or should I just find better rocks. I bought these at Wal-mart, and they are "Aqua" brand. I figured rocks are rocks.

Unfortunately, rocks are not just rocks. Do the fizz test. Take the rocks and pour a few drops of regular vinegar on them. If they fizz they will contribute to the gH and kH of the water. If they don't, give em a try in your tank. The thing about rocks is that they will continually erode (it may be at a negligible rate) in the presence of moving water.