customer complaint with UTAHDISCUS.COM and replys

[alau]

Everyone,
I am furious right now. Has any seller removed the live fish arrival guarantee when you asked the seller to charge the shipping cost directly to your FedEx account? I ordered some discus from a discus hatchery (I don’t want to name names right now). I paid for FedEx priority overnite shipping (guarantee by 10:30 am). I paid the discus with paypal and I asked him to charge the shipping cost directly to my company’s FedEx account. What’s wrong with that? The problem is that my discus arrived in 2 days. The 2 small heat packs didn’t work (at least not long enough because the water was almost ice cold). The seller said he is not going to guarantee their live arrival guarantee because the shipping cost is charged directly into my company’s FedEx account. And by the way, he didn’t even insure them the proper valve and so even if my claim goes thru, I am going to get $100. I paid $248 for the discus. What should I do?

Ade

[ShinShin]

He is feeding you a line of BS. I routinely charge my shipping to the company's FedEx account. It should make no difference. If you will, PM me the source to add to my collection of rip off artists.

Mat

[Camden]

If you paid through paypal shouldn't you be able to get all your money back. I thought they had 1000 dollar insurance policy. Its sounds like hes trying to short straw you over a little thing. And why was the package late? I've never had any problems with FedEx overnite.

[fishmama]

Is there some type of recourse to dispute the charge via FedEx? Have you contacted their customer service? Is the seller a member of any Better Business Bureau in his/her area? And, possibly how is the FedEx bill paid? Perhaps a credit card company could dispute the charge?

Just some thoughts

[White Worm]

If all else fails, you can list the source in the thread about good and bad dealers. Its around here somewhere.

[alau]

Again at this moment, I am waiting for some sort of solution to come up. I am not naming names right at this moment.

I filed a claim with FedEx but FedEx first excuse was that they don't ship live fishes and so they don't guarantee anything on them. Second, the shipper didn't even fill in the insure amount when shipping the discus. So the maximum I get from the claim is ~$100.

I don't know why the delay. I asked FedEx and they don't have an excuse. The discus just sat in Memphis, TN for 18+ hrs.

The heat packs are the tiny 3"x4" few hrs hand warmers, I think the shipper should have use at least 30 hrs heat packs.

2 of the shipping bags have leaked. Water can be seen in the most outer bag.

I had filed claims thru paypal before and I had yet to receive any refunds. I hate to say that I hate paypal but unfortunately everyone else uses them.


Ade

[AmberC]

Wow Ade I'm sorry. I hope it gets resolved.

[LizStreithorst]

It looks likd you got skrewed, Ade. It is the seller that should make this right for you.

[Elite Aquaria]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I would call the supplier right away. Did you ask why he would remove the guarantee if you had the shipping billed to your account instead of having it prepay?

Several years ago I was selling a lot of Guppies and I had an Airborne account since FedEx did not allow fish shipping. I had special lower rates but I always passed on the savings to my customers. Maybe his/her reason is to make an extra buck on each of his customers. If I were the supplier I would re-ship on my dime, after seeing the condition of that package. Good luck...

Dan

[terps]

Fedex won't pay for dead fish even if the shipper insures them. They don't insure tropical fish. They only will refund shipping fees if the shipment is late. If the shipment was late due to bad weather(something out of Fedex control), then you won't get a refund on shipping either. I'd be pissed off if I was you too.

[troyclark]

Please, let everyone know who did this to you so no one else will get ripped off like you did.

[Chrisb]

Sorry for the lost fish.:( When I ship fish my guarantee is good for overnight no mater who pays. I have never had any problems with FedEx but I do check the weather before shipping. Living in Memphis helps also.
Don't know when the fish were shipped but we did have some ice a week or so ago and alot of flight delays
FedEx should refund the shipping. If it was me that shipped I would work something out with you.
Good luck next time
Chris

[gta333]

Sorry to here about your loss. Paypal will help you with this. they will freeze the sellers account until he gives you a refund. this process takes a little time to get done. I got a shipment of dicus that was bagged the same way yours look. I want to say it was the same seller that sold you yours. I lost 2 of of 6. He paypaled me the differance the same day. He should of looked at the weather before he shipped these out. wish you luck on this but I think everything will get worked out with the seller and paypal. have a great day gary

[born2lovefish]

start an dispute through paypal and if the seller does not want to work with you, esculvate(spelling?) it through paypal and they will decide the outcome.

[paletka]

Hi,

Post seller name to prevent from future "screw up" other members.
I could ship some fish for you free, I'm not sure what fish you ordered.
Please let me know and I will send you some. Your cost will be shipping only.


Chris

Windy City Discus

[jj zak]

Ade,
From the look of the box in your picture I think I know who supplied your fish. I used him before and had no problems.The first order I received from him was of grade A discus and I told him I was going to buy about 40 more fish out of his next shipment because I am going to start breeding discus on a large scale. Ater seeing the pictures of the next shipment they were no longer grade A discus so i did not order them. At any rate when I told him I was going to order so many fish he was really excited, and I think if you PM the name of the supplier so I know its the same one I might be able to make him refund your money. Like I said he really wants my buisness and I think I can scare him. Next time order your fish from simply's sponsers they all have quality fish and they are people you can trust.

[Ryan]

Terps is correct, FedEx does not allow you to insure live fish so there's no point in filing a claim with FedEx.

Did you check the packaging and/or the tracking number to determine if this seller actually used FedEx Priority Overnight? Are you sure they didn't use FedEx 2Day?

The best route is to file a claim with PayPal. They will work with you.

If you're going to post a review, either positive or negative, about a seller or a product, it needs to be done in the Livestock and Product Reviews (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?f=106) forum.

Ryan

[Asago]

This is wild, the same exact thing happened to me a couple weeks ago, ordered four 3" Discus ($145 worth), used paypal to pay and charged to my own fedex acct....my package was sent through Indianapolis, got stuck because of ice storm came a day late ... all D.O.A. I called FedEx and because the delay was due to weather they said they would not credit shipping charges and they definately do not guarantee live fish. I pleaded with the customer service rep and since it was the first time using them on my "new" acct. she agreed to credit back about $60.00 of the $108 charges. The breeder responed to my first few emails, said he would send me out a few more...then came back and wanted to see pics, so I sent them...I have emailed him a couple more times and he has not responded (its been over a week now). He also replied that it was my fault because I wanted the fish delivered that day and I should of known about the weather.....well to tell the truth we had a conversation on the phone...I told him what the temps were here and he said no problem I will throw a couple of heat packs in...what I did not know was that Fedex would route a pkg from TX to NC through IN, if I would of known that I would of been watching the forecast for IN and not shipped the fish....if I dont here back from shipper soon...I too will be filing a paypal dispute. Also, when I was inquiring about the fish, the breeder was real quick to respond to emails and even called me on the phone a couple times, now that we have an issue...not so quick to respond. Not casting any fault or blame on anybody....just want to know what is the ethical thing to do for both parties involved?

[ShinShin]

Here, too, the supplier ought to man-up and replace your discus. Where is the integrity today?

Mat

[billeagan]

Hi,

Post seller name to prevent from future "screw up" other members.
I could ship some fish for you free, I'm not sure what fish you ordered.
Please let me know and I will send you some. Your cost will be shipping only.


Chris

Windy City Discus

Chris,

You are truly a stand up guy!

Bill

[alau]

Well, I emailed him since I posted on the forum but I don't think he cares because he didn't email me at all. I told him that I will hold telling his name. I want to give him a chance to reply to me but he doesn’t care. Since he is doing nothing about it, I guess I should let everyone knows about him. I bought the discus from Utah Discus (Edy). I am going to file a claim with paypal but I don’t trust them either. There was no weather problem that day in Memphis TN and for what reason that FedEx decide to screw up with my box of discus. Maybe we should do something about FedEx especially if they know it was fish when they accept the package then they should be responsible for it.

Ade

[markstr]

I was in touch with him sometime back as well "Aquabid" saw him.....
Can't recall, but something wasn't right about him...
This confirms it..........

[LizStreithorst]

Ade, The deal with FedEx is that they will accept them but refuse to be responsible for the replacement value if there is a problem.

[DISCUS USA]

That guy utah discus sent a breeder from NYC a bunch of gabage fish that looked hormoned and didnt grow much. the nyc breeder lost a little over $1000 with this seller.. im not making this up i seen the fish with my own eyes at breeders place ,, if the breeder might see this and back up my story hes a member of Simply Discus too.

[aquaticplantman]

Ade, sorry for your lost fish too. I know I'd be at least as angry as you are now if this had happened to me, but I think you'd be better off just concentrating on trying to get a resolution through Paypal or Utahdiscus. Along the lines of what Liz said, FedEx could "give less than a frog's tail" (yes, I know, frogs don't have tails -- that's the point) about the well-being of any live goods package. FedEx is an often neccessary evil. Airport to airport is only a little better, but I'm getting off track.

This UtahDiscus is obviously a rip-off seller. Sorry you had take this blow, but keep trying to muscle a refund out of him and hope for the best. Hopefully, anyone else who might have been thinking about ordering from him will see this and reconsider.

Best of luck,
-- Matt H.

[dishpanhands]

Don't forget to use iTrader on this. He is a member here.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/member.php?u=10715

HTH

[korbi_doc]

Ade, I'm so sorry for your loss; it's because of posts like yours that I was so paranoid when I ordered thru FedX last month....more so cuz my address now here in Tn is in the boonies & just a brand new dirt rd...I knew the fish would come thru Memphis, & I spent those 2 days on the phone & the pc with FedX rather constantly, checked when they were picked up at 3:30pm in Fl & literally followed them; would've gone to Memphis if it became necessary (2+ hr drive) called in the am 'bout 5x & talked to ppl in Fl & Memphis who directed the driver (they are always in contact)'til they got here at 9 am....think that's what may be nec with FedX , & maybe I was just very lucky, but it worked & I will continue to do it that way; also I had it invoiced to my own account from my now defunct vet hospital & didn't have problems, just cost a lot more than I expected, but they got here alive so I'm not complaining...JME, Dottie

[Marksdiscus]

1 time i bought from utahdiscus and no way for me buy again.

[FishLover888]

Go through PayPal is the best way. Even if you don't get the money, PayPal will close his account and that will be end of a big chunk of his business.

Just make sure you have all the details such as e-mails, pictures and so on when go to PayPal.

[alau]

Well, this is what I got back from Paypal.

"Dear Ade Lau,

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund."

[Asago]

Ade,
It's time to move on, take Chris up on his offer to replace the discus...limiting your losses. The same thing happened to me, I filed a paypal dispute and the seller stepped up and refunded my money...I wish we it didn't need to go that far but the seller quit responding to my emails after I sent him pics of the dead fish (I was willing to wait it out and get replacements but he wasn't answering my emails) Also, the seller continued to insist that it was my fault because I requested the shipment. These guys ship and receive fish all of the time...they should know when weather is a factor, plus fedex routes packages through different hubs, who could predict where a problem may occur. I cast no fault in these situations, bottom line is the seller should "make good" in situations like these...and write them off as losses. Now that this has hit the forums, the sellers losses will be greater because of lost future business!! I too will be more careful of where I order fish from and even pay more to do business with reputable dealers...also a dealers location is a factor especially during winter months.

[UtahDiscus]

Hi... I am Edy with UtahDiscus.com and for the past few days most of you guys have been bashing my name and company name by reading only one side of Ade's story. What Ade wrote to you is all correct, but I think, she FORGOT to tell you one little thing. I emailed her days before she even sent me the payment and explained to her that if we used her Fedex account, I would not be responsable for the fish or anything else with the shipment. She would be fully responsable with any problems. She would have to be responsable or deal directly with Fedex. Well she wanted to do it her way and unfortunally for her and w/o any specific reason the package showed up 24 hours late (48 hours later).
Now.. Why should I be responsable for something that she took full responsability for..? I offered her in her next order to put a couple of discus for free to help her a little bit and be in good faith to try to help her. Well, she didn't say anything on that either.
I have been doing business for 3 years selling discus and when I Guarantee Live Arrival if the fish arrive DOA, then I will replace the fish or give credit via Paypal or Credit card as I did with a few of the members on this Forum, but I NEVER BREAK MY WORD as a business man, I always deliver what I say, even in a few occasion where I loose money, but I always keep my word.
The Intention of the email is so you know both sides of the story and know that I am a good business man and if I Guarantee Live Arrival I will do it, but If I tell a customer in advance that I won't be responsable for an order of fish and the customer agrees, it's not my responsability if something goes wrong.
Thanks, Edy, UtahDiscus.com PS. I will send the copy of the original email sent to Ade to anybody on this Forum upon request.

[Asago]

Edy,
Who cares what FedEx acct. was used...the bottom line is the fish did not make it! Also, thats BS to say I will throw in a couple extra on your next order....I doubt you will see another order from this customer seeing that other suppliers have already offered replacements for free without an order.

[UtahDiscus]

Hi... I am Edy with UtahDiscus.com and I just Post a New Tread where I am explaining my side of the story. Please, take a little time to read my side before you start to judge me or my company name. Thanks. Edy.

[UtahDiscus]

Hi...! I think if a person take responsability and agreed to my terms, I think this person should be responsable. Don't you think...?


Edy,
Who cares what FedEx acct. was used...the bottom line is the fish did not make it! Also, thats BS to say I will throw in a couple extra on your next order....I doubt you will see another order from this customer seeing that other suppliers have already offered replacements for free without an order.

[t_j]

Why where you not Guaranteeing the fish just because she was using her company account ??

[UtahDiscus]

Hi.. becuase the true is that I make a little extra $10 to $15 more when I place an order and that help me to cover my losses when I place an order becuase Fedex even that you insured the box, they won't cover when you do it a claim. So, she want to save money on the order and I didn't feel to put my Live Guarantee on this order. In advanced I told her and she agreed. That's the true and unfortunally, it was this problem and everybody is comming back after me. I don't think is fair...! This is an adult and she agreed to the terms and unfortunally this bad thing happend, but it's not my fault. Sorry... I don't know... Please. tell me if I am wrong.... becuase I don't think I am...


Why where you not Guaranteeing the fish just because she was using her company account ??

[moik]

Hello, this was not the first time the shipping Co. screwed up (will not be the last)I can not see the difference whether you paid for shipping from the total sale price collected or they paid Fed-Ex directly. With alot of mail order discus sales, there are alot of people not willing to pay $50 plus for shipping. So if some people can save some money on shipping through their work account, so be it. If you think about it, with people doing it this way your sales should increase. No matter if you were paid the shipping money or she used her account the fish would have been a day late regaurdless. The fish would have been shipped the same day and same time and the same 24 hours late. So why should someone loose a arrive alive gaurentee. Most repitable sellers give refunds for over payment on shipping. These are just my thoughts about this ,but if fed-ex would of delivered like their supposed to, you would not be dealing with this problem. You trying to get money out of fed-ex-- forget it!!! This is just going to have to be resolved by a moral and "what is right" veiw point. Hopefully there will be some good that comes out of this for both sides.

[Kindredspirit]

But Edy ~ I just read your thread ~ with some explanation from a friend ~ does it really matter what Fed-ex acct was used? Or who shipped them?

They were dead ~ right? I am confused as I know every time I rec'vd discus ....every time... I know that Dan, Cary and Kenny would have replaced them if this happened...Hell Kenny would have replaced them if they died on my recent trip...and I brought them home myself!

Do you understand? Just a little more?:p It is what it is ~ there is a moral obligation to do what is right and most sellers here go beyond that. I have seen it numerous times ~

You seem like a nice guy and a man of your word ~ one that wants to please his customers.....yes?


Marie ~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_4_10.gif

[Darren's Discus]

Edy,
I'm with Marie for the sake of good business practice cut your loss replace the fish a happy customer is a good customer but as you can clearly see here a customer scornded can cost you your business.

cheers

[dishpanhands]

Hi...! I think if a person take responsability and agreed to my terms, I think this person should be responsable. Don't you think...?

Sounds to me like you thought you had a sucker on the line.
They came out of the box dead. How do we know they didn't go in the box that way?

[alau]

You forgot to mention that the shipping bag with the discus leaked. I sent you the pics with the unopened bag and you ignored it. This is not the carrier responsibility. It is your responsibility. There might be a slim chance if the discus had all their water they might still live. I had received fishes with their water very cold and live.

Ade

[2jzpower]

well to make this short for all the members here... we're all prob. going to use other sources for our discus now... especially those breeders who have the passion to send her some free discus so she could enjoy their company.. even though that's not where she ordered them from...

[annieb]

well to make this short for all the members here... we're all prob. going to use other sources for our discus now... especially those breeders who have the passion to send her some free discus so she could enjoy their company.. even though that's not where she ordered them from...
We haven't seen the email from Edy to Alau telling Alau that if Edy ships Fed-x using Alau'sr Fed-x account, there will be no live delivery guarantee. If he clearly stated that there will be no live delivery guarantee if the shipment is billed to to Alau's fed-x account and Alau acknowledged reading it and still opted to charge the shipment to Alau's Fed-x account, IMO, Alau is not entitled to a refund. I'm a retired attorney and I can't imagine Alau winning that case in small claims court.
There is a binding contract in writing between the buyer and seller that clearly states the terms. Alau knew what the risks were but opted to take a chance and save a few bucks on the shipping. What ever Edy's reason for stipulating those terms are his business.
What if buyer and seller got together on a fish deal? The seller states that he guarantees live delivery only if paid with a money order. The buyer who has been duly notified and clearly understands the sellers terms, decides to pay for the deal using Paypal. Do you think a judge would ask the seller to justify his reason for only offering live delivery only when paid with a money order. I think NOT!
Instead of withdrawing his live delivery guarantee, what if he stated in his Email that if I charge the shipping to your Fed-x account I must increase the price by $10 and Alau opted not to pay the extra $10, Would Edy still be in the wrong in your opinion?
It would be a wonderful gesture and smart business for Edy to replace the fish but he has done nothing wrong by not doing it. If everything is as it has been stated, Edy, IMO,you're getting some bad feedback on this site and I
understand why you are upset.

[puertoayacucho]

Hi Edy,

This is Ed Ruiz at Taylorsville, just a few blocks away from you. Just wanting to give you one thumb up (and another sideways) in this situation.

I can personally attest and make known to other forum members as to the pride and hard work that Edy puts into his discus fish.

This man owns one of the larger computer hardware distribution outfits in the Western United States. He travels several times a year to Asia for business and steals a little time off for himself to visit some of the regions prime discus breeders.

He does not have a large, totally dedicated operation around his fish, but has the number of tanks his real business allows him to manage. Edy amazes me with his capacity to provide top conditions to a relatively large number of top quality fish.

I'm lucky I have him at almost walking distance from my home.

Accidents do happen and it would be unfair of me to take one side or another in a situation like this. On the other hand Fedex has lowered its performance. I had three losses or misdeliveries with Fedex last year alone (thank God nothing to do with live fish!). Faulty bags may also be playing a role here (as per clients description of events). Then, any discus shipper knows that two or three bags is standard practice when working with expensive fish. You do this all the time Edy.

All this said, I wish to add one more thing. Good reputation Edy is something you cultivate every day, a client now should be a client forever... a small sacrifice at the right time, something you can work out for the benefit of both parties hereto is a tiny investment in the future of your discus business.

I hope both you and your client come to happy terms.

Keep up the hard work

Ed

[alau]

I return his emailed indicate that I will accept the term only if he will guarantee that the discus will be probably packaged (I got email/writing to proof). He never return any email regarding that if he acknowledge that part or not. So I thought he removed the condition. All he said then he can go ahead and ship. And since the bag leaked, I said he didn't upheld his side of the agreement.

Also, he didn't insure the package at all. He left the insure value on the form blank (when I contacted FedEx, they told me that). Oh, that right, you told me you sent someone else to drop off my fishes. If he knows that FedEx doen't insure live fishes then why did he tell me to file a claim with FedEx?

I sent him several emails with photos of the dead discus and the unopened bags. He ignored all of them until now on the forum. Maybe I should take him to the small claim court.

I have purchased many discus from people on simplydiscus and others. I have been burnt once before and so I am very careful in keeping all my emails (both sent and received) and promptly reporting problems.

Ade

[alau]

I attached the last few emails of our communication. After that last one, he didn't respond to my emails. Of course, no refunds either. He never mentioned about if the discus DOA there will be no refunds. Edy, you never stated anything like that in the aquabid auction. He didn't even offer to send me some discus. He wants me to place another order and send me 2 discus for free next time.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/closed.cgi?view_closed_item&fwdiscus1171826478
If you all think I am wrong, I can stop and I will.
Actual email below!

Dear Ade,

I am sorry for your frustration, I have that feeling myself when this sometimes happened (usually one or twice a year). I didn’t mean that you were ‘cheap’ and trying to save money with the shipping. I just mean that you want to handle the shipping charges and the responsibility that comes with it, like I explained you before we did the transaction.

I am very sorry, I will try to support you in what I can.

Edy

Utahdiscus.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ade Lau [mailto:adelau@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:58 AM
To: Sales - UtahDiscus.com
Subject: Re: Ade Lau has just sent you $248.00 USD with PayPal

Edy,

I am not trying to save money on shipping. I just want to have the shipping cost directly charge to my company's account. I am paying for FedEx priority overnite. How can you claim that I am trying to save money? How can you not insure the proper amount? By doing so, how can I file a claim w/ FedEx to get my full money back? A couple free discus is not going to do me any good right now.

Ade

----- Original Message ----
From: Sales - UtahDiscus.com <Sales@UtahDiscus.com>
To: Ade Lau <adelau@yahoo.com>
Cc: Edy@utahDiscus.com
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:48:21 AM
Subject: RE: Ade Lau has just sent you $248.00 USD with PayPal

Ade,

Yes. I didn’t insured it because you didn’t told me to do it. You were trying to save money on the shipping.

Again, to try to help you on your next order, I will put you a couple of discus for free.

Edy.

UtahDiscus.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ade Lau [mailto:adelau@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:02 AM
To: Sales - UtahDiscus.com
Subject: Re: Ade Lau has just sent you $248.00 USD with PayPal

Edy,

did you know that you didn't even insure the proper amount for the discus?

Ade

----- Original Message ----
From: Sales - UtahDiscus.com <Sales@UtahDiscus.com>
To: Ade Lau <adelau@yahoo.com>
Cc: Colette <colette@ebccomputers.com>; Edy@utahDiscus.com
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 9:35:46 AM
Subject: RE: Ade Lau has just sent you $248.00 USD with PayPal

Ade,

I am very sorry for your lost. In order to help you. In you next order, I will put you a couple of discus free or charge,

Keep me inform,

Edy

UtahDiscus.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ade Lau [mailto:adelau@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:19 AM
To: (EBC) Utah Discus
Subject: Re: Ade Lau has just sent you $248.00 USD with PayPal

Edy,

I don't know what the heck is happening. I got the tracking 652148822670. The discus is stucked in Memphis TN

Ade

[dishpanhands]

We haven't seen the email from Edy to Alau telling Alau that if Edy ships Fed-x using Alau'sr Fed-x account, there will be no live delivery guarantee. If he clearly stated that there will be no live delivery guarantee if the shipment is billed to to Alau's fed-x account and Alau acknowledged reading it and still opted to charge the shipment to Alau's Fed-x account, IMO, Alau is not entitled to a refund. I'm a retired attorney and I can't imagine Alau winning that case in small claims court.

You might be correct, but that is what makes this site so nice. We can tell others that this is what kind of business you get when dealing with him. We can show them places that don't do this kind of stuff. so now ask yourself. Gamble with him or take a sure thing with a sponsor..

Like I said the fish could have been dead when they went in the box, and with that kind of guarantee he was had...

[White Worm]

Sounds like a blow off. I have heard that same story. NEXT ORDER?? What makes you think after getting screwed, I would place another order and get more dead fish? Having said that, some of us get spoiled dealing with morally sound discus dealers that will replace dead at no cost and will also suck up the shipping costs (maybe even throw in an extra or 2). Not everyone is like that or can afford to do that when running a business. This is more of a "Whats the right thing to do" instance. It shouldnt matter what account it was charged to, still the same delivery and if there was a clearly stated agreement that the seller wasnt going to guarantee live arrival, the buyer should have cancelled and looked elsewhere. Sounds like alot of miscommunication and a lack of communication overall. These are the chances you take when dealing with mail order no matter what you order or who you order from. Also, even if he quadruple bagged them, they may still leak. Bottom line is the agreement....Sounds like seller thought buyer understood the NO live guarantee and buyer assumed seller changed his mind about it.

[White Worm]

Want to point out something here. Everyone just accepts the rules stated by fed-ex (they dont refund because....and thats it!) but doesnt this seller have the same right to make his rules? He stated that he was not going to guarantee them. That gives the buyer plenty of opportunity to back out of the deal regardless of why he wont guarantee. Yes, as I said in the other thread. Some of us have been spoiled by those sellers who go above and beyond :D lesson learned and i think it sucks that another hobbyist got screwed in the deal and I think because of just these 2 threads, the seller got his too. In the future, hand pick em or go with a trusted and well known source like those who have been screened and reside in the sponsors section here on simply.

[tpastrana]

Hi All,
I just came accross this thread this morning. I just wanted to add my own
experiance with Edy from Utah discus. Some of you may remember my thread
regarding my 8" inch WB arriving in barely any water a few months back.
I had a simular problem, but in my opinion it was not Edy's fault at all. I took pictures of my fish in the empty bag as well & still to this day I can not figure out what happened to the water! He had packaged the discus properely.
He was in a nice styrofome box with heating. He had been bagged several times and properly sealed. I called Edy upon my Discus arrival about the situation. My fish pretty much died in the bag. He had stopped breathing as I was trying to get him out. I quickly through him in the water, he sank right to the bottom of the tank for an entire day and night.
Edy was very supportive in every way with my situation and was prepared to take care of what ever he had to depending on the outcome. He was very professional in all aspects of my transaction. I was fortunate with my Discus coming around and looks awesome in my tank as we speak. I also believe if my Discus wasnt as healthy as he was he would not of survived. As a few of you stated in that post as well.
I think that tihs situation is very unfortunate for both parties. It is definetly
a communication problem on both ends. I think they both should make this a "WIN" "WIN" situation as opposed to who is right or wrong. In the long run it will benefit both parties and future business for Edy. I hate to see this situation ruin or tarnish his rep, when he really isnt a scammer IMO!! I would definetely purchase from him again. Again this is just from my personal experiance with him.
Teresa

[brewmaster15]

All,
I am locking this thread... I merged the two threads . Both sides have had their say.

Eddy has received negative feedback from the ADE in Itrader...Eddy...you are entitled to respond there as well.


I encourage both parties to try to work with each other... sometimes that just doesn't happen..

I have not bought from Eddy and will not slam him or comment here as I have no personal experience with him.. Its unfortunate that this happened.. I personally would have honored the live guarantee whether I shipped fish on my Fedex account or whether I sent them on someones account.. Really shouldnt matter...The fish would have left at the same point, same time, and been shipped by the same route.. Its not like someone asked for a shipment to go by post office when the seller ships by fedex.. and as for making any money off the shipping... Not something that I recommend... shippings too expensive as it is... Is this really apoint worth losing business over? thats Utahs call not mine.

If Ade agreed to the terms though, That makes things far more complicated.. I have ordered wild discus many times and most of the the times wilds are not guaranteed.. Thats a fact of the deal thats painful when fish come in DOA or are lost in transit... But its what I go into the deal knowing and accepting. I can always choose other suppliers.

I really think both of you need to talk things out here

Last comment... a few months ago...one of our members , yellowclaw, lost his tank of fish... Eddy stepped up to the plate and sent him fish free to help him get started.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=54795&highlight=yellowclaw

I offer that as further insight into utah discus, not as vindication of eddy.. We all tend to look at things in a very narrow view when theres a buyer seller issue...

Things happen, mistakes and miscommunications... Best suggestion fix things as best you both can and move on.

take care all,
al

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
If both parties come to an agreement we'll open this thread for them to close it out publically.

Thanks,
al