Forgot To Add Prime.....

[Kindredspirit]

.....and nothing happened:confused: Talk about panic city! I totally forgot to add Prime during my wc ~ actually in the middle, end, or anywhere thereafter! I got up early so I cld knock out a quick wc before I go to work....

I flew out of the shower down the F* stairs and ....thinking that they would all be gasping at the top or dead....they are fine so I really need some explanations...I did just added some ~ but it has been like hell, well over an hour since I did the wc....! I am thinking that Prime does work when added anytime ~ like instantly....yes? So....if they were to have an adverse effect from not adding Prime we see that instantaneously? It wld not take hours to see the Discus in trouble? I can go to work?


I need a drink!


Fluke? Or........do I not need conditioner anymore? I do not think I would ever take that risk....


Inquiring Minds Wanna Know ~



Marie~ http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_2_8.gif

[t_j]

Marie, when I wasn't adding Prime some times they would gasp for air at the top of the tank and this happened right after the tank was full and I was done with my wc. If they haven't done any thing funny already I think you'll be in the safe zone. Mine never did any thing hours after and when they did act funny it was always right after the water change. IME

[Kindredspirit]

Marie, when I wasn't adding Prime some times they would gasp for air at the top of the tank and this happened right after the tank was full and I was done with my wc they did act funny it was always


That is what I thought!! Thanks Tiff:) I am going downstairs now and they all had better be flippin waves:) ( and I DO have waves )

[pcsb23]

Marie, prime works near enough instantly is my understanding. You will get away with the occaisional lapse but you will not get away with it everytime if there are any chlorines/chloramines/heavy metals in your water supply.

[billeagan]

In general you can change up to 20% of you water without any negative effects from the chlorine/chloramine.

I do this about once a week to every two weeks - at the lower levels the chlorine/chloramine will do more good than harm.

Bill

[pcsb23]

- at the lower levels the chlorine/chloramine will do more good than harm.

Bill
agreed.

[FishLover888]

I never use Prime for my outside pond, I don't do more than 20% of WC to the pond. Not problem when I don't do more than 20%.

I once killed most of my fish outside when I forgot to turn off the tap. It was pumping tap water into the pond and over flew it.

Had to use Prime to save the rest of the fish. Not many og them left. All pretty ones were killed.

[alpine]

I forgot to add prime in a 30 gallon cube with a pair. I almost died of a heart attack 10 minutes later when it came to mind the mistake I made, rushed to the fishroom to see the pair laying sideways , breathing hard and I noticed the eyes were kind of protuding ...i got a net and put them with their other siblings ...I was scared to death but in a hours time they were fine . I have chloramines in my water .roberto.

[White Worm]

Simply put. You may have no problem once in a while with a small w/c but why even chance it? Keep using it because as soon as you think you dont need it, the water company treats your local water and kills all your discus. Better safe than sorry. If you forget it, put it in later when you remember or do another w/c with prime. I always use close to 2X dose. I wouldnt chance w/c without it.

[AADiscus]

:D :D :D

Thats all you get from me. lol

[traco]

I do this about once a week to every two weeks - at the lower levels the chlorine/chloramine will do more good than harm.

Bill

Can you explain how at lower levels the chlorine/chloramine does more good?

[FishLover888]

I use 2x the amount of Prime too. You never know from time to time, your water company may decided to up the chls and you may ended up with a tank full of dead fish. Especially after rain storms or the water quality is not good, the water companies around the world are know to double dosage on the chls.

Why chance it? Prime is cheap compare to other products. $20 last me for a long time.

[billeagan]

Can you explain how at lower levels the chlorine/chloramine does more good?

The chlorine will kill any bacteria, etc in the tank. Yes, it will get to your good bacteria too, but if its in small amounts it will use its potency on the free floating stuff and the stuff on the coat of the discus.

[dishpanhands]

Fluke? Or........do I not need conditioner anymore? I do not think I would ever take that risk....

After as many times you have killed your filter (cloudy water) in the last year. Hard to think that you would even consider it.
IMO

[Kindredspirit]

After as many times you have killed your filter (cloudy water) in the last year. Hard to think that you would even consider it.
IMO


Wrong tank:)

[Kindredspirit]

I almost died of a heart attack 10 minutes later when it came to mind the mistake I made,


Ya think, Roberto? I agree! I was so scared! I am glad that your fish were okay:)


Marie ~ :coffee:

[Kindredspirit]

:D :D :D

Thats all you get from me. lol



And you may have this:




http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/11/11_2_104.gif

[Kindredspirit]

Simply put. You may have no problem once in a while with a small w/c but why even chance it? Keep using it because as soon as you think you don't need it, the water company treats your local water and kills all your discus. Better safe than sorry. If you forget it, put it in later when you remember or do another w/c with prime. I always use close to 2X dose. I wouldn't chance w/c without it.


Yeah Mike ~ I do not think I can ever NOT use Prime ~ even tho I rec'vd a really nice message from an individual who lives in Sac and apparently has done some research w/ our water dept...( except tech I am in Roseville now )
Sac does not put chloramines in our water....but ya know, old habits die hard....:)

if at all ~




The chlorine will kill any bacteria, etc in the tank. Yes, it will get to your good bacteria too, but if its in small amounts it will use its potency on the free floating stuff and the stuff on the coat of the discus.


Thanks Bill ~ good to know:)

[dishpanhands]

Wrong tank:)


Same water supply..;)

[Alight]

OK, so for those who really want to know, the amount of chlorine/chloramine at any users faucet can vary greatly from place to place in the distribution system, for from time to time at any one place in the system.

It all depends on how far you are from the water source that received the initial chlorination, and how many organics were in the water, and how much use the water gets along the line.

The amount of chlorine at the user site can vary from quite high, to virtually nothing, as it gets used up by organics in the pipes.

When we lived in Chapel Hill, NC, we had 0 chloramine in our tap water 90% of the time. This is actually not good, as it means that our water supply to our house could get contaminated by dangerious bacteria.

What this means for Marie is that she might have gotten lucky this time, but definitely don't push your luck.

[Harriett]

I am probably rocking the boat so my caveat is to really know your water params and experiment carefully, but here's my deal:
About 3 years ago after I also forgot the Prime when I was doing a tank and saw no problem afterward, I was talking with Cary Strong and he told me that he didn't use water conditioner when he did water changes in his tanks either. [**breeding tanks are a different issue due to RO water, etc].
Since we both have Lake Michigan water, and my town [Evanston IL ] doesn't use chloramine, I began experimenting; as a result, for the last couple years, except for discus < 3", I don't condition my water either. For the babies I use straight sodium theosulfate crystals tossed into the tank when I do [non aged] daily water changes with the python. I do major water changes in all my BB tanks pretty much daily or QOD and my fish do fine and are big and healthy, as folks who have been to my house will attest. I am not suggesting that anyone follow suit, but am adding it as perhaps a rogue observation. I should have bought stock in Prime for all the $ I spent previously...
Another observation from experimenting is that when I was still conditioning my tanks before 2005, I switched from Prime to sodium theo sulfate crystals with the same results; STS crystal cost me a total of $6. in the 3 years I was using it and it knocks out chlorine instantly....the crystals are the size of koshar salt crystals and the dose it took was about 12-15 grains [< 1/4 teaspoon] for the 180g tank, max. I am still working off the 1.5 cup tub I originally got from ponddepot.com in 2004 and I gave my son about 1/4 of it a year ago for his 65g African tank....just something else to experiment with to decrease the expense.
Best regards
Harriett

[billeagan]

I am probably rocking the boat so my caveat is to really know your water params and experiment carefully, but here's my deal:
About 3 years ago after I also forgot the Prime when I was doing a tank and saw no problem afterward, I was talking with Cary Strong and he told me that he didn't use water conditioner when he did water changes in his tanks either. [**breeding tanks are a different issue due to RO water, etc].
Since we both have Lake Michigan water, and my town [Evanston IL ] doesn't use chloramine, I began experimenting; as a result, for the last couple years, except for discus < 3", I don't condition my water either. For the babies I use straight sodium theosulfate crystals tossed into the tank when I do [non aged] daily water changes with the python. I do major water changes in all my BB tanks pretty much daily or QOD and my fish do fine and are big and healthy, as folks who have been to my house will attest. I am not suggesting that anyone follow suit, but am adding it as perhaps a rogue observation. I should have bought stock in Prime for all the $ I spent previously...
Another observation from experimenting is that when I was still conditioning my tanks before 2005, I switched from Prime to sodium theo sulfate crystals with the same results; STS crystal cost me a total of $6. in the 3 years I was using it and it knocks out chlorine instantly....the crystals are the size of koshar salt crystals and the dose it took was about 12-15 grains [< 1/4 teaspoon] for the 180g tank, max. I am still working off the 1.5 cup tub I originally got from ponddepot.com in 2004 and I gave my son about 1/4 of it a year ago for his 65g African tank....just something else to experiment with to decrease the expense.
Best regards
Harriett

I'm not familiar with Sodium theo Sulfate crystals. Are you able to throw in the crystals and then just fill with a hose? It would be great not to have to use storage barrels to store regular tap.

[traco]

Harriet, I was not using Prime for over 6 months at least on my 90 with adult discus with no problem. We have no chloramine. But then I got my babies and with them being smaller, I started using Prime again. Better safe than sorry.:)

BUT I am looking into using the dry Amquel + or Safe. The only places I can find it is in the States. Sent a email to reed mariculture asking for shipping costs but have not heard back from them.:( I know Jehmco carries the Amquel + dry. I have also read about using the sodium theosulfate, just too chicken to try it.

In no way am I saying to others to not use Prime or whatever they use. Everyone's water is so different and I'd hate to be the cause of someone's discus dying cuz they read that some do not use a de-chlorinator.

[VL67]

In my experience during the last few years that I have not used chemical products to dechlorinate my tap water (source: from Lake Michigan via City of Chicago) for my 180 gal display tank, I have had no issues with the health of the grow out of my juvenile discus and my adult discus. In fact, adult female discus that I've had were induced to laying eggs due to the temporary cooler water temperature of the refill water within minutes of a w/c. It happened again after yesterday's w/c! Now would stressed out, unhealthy discus due to the presence or exposure of chlorine in the untreated water be induced to perform breeding? I agree with Harriett that babies and juveniles less than 3 inches should be handled more cautiously and slowly acclimated to w/c using straight tap water once they achieve the size of 3" just to be on the safe side; and of course you wouldn't use straight tap water for your breeding tanks (at least where I'm located since the water chemistry will not allow for successful breeding). As I've stated on another thread regarding this issue, I know what my municipality's water chemistry is and I am comfortable using straight tap water. It would be irresponsible for me, or anybody, to globally endorse using straight tap water without knowing what your individual tap water chemistry looks like and feel confortable with it. Getting back to Marie's thread; she forgot to use prime, freaked out, and there was no apparent harm to her discus and prompted Marie to question the continued use of Prime to dechlorinate her tap water ever again. If Marie lived next door to me, I'd recommend that she do as much reserch as she needs to to make her own decision to do so or not. HTH;)

Vince

[Harriett]

Harriet, I was not using Prime for over 6 months at least on my 90 with adult discus with no problem. We have no chloramine. But then I got my babies and with them being smaller, I started using Prime again. Better safe than sorry.:)

BUT I am looking into using the dry Amquel + or Safe. The only places I can find it is in the States. Sent a email to reed mariculture asking for shipping costs but have not heard back from them.:( I know Jehmco carries the Amquel + dry. I have also read about using the sodium theosulfate, just too chicken to try it.

In no way am I saying to others to not use Prime or whatever they use. Everyone's water is so different and I'd hate to be the cause of someone's discus dying cuz they read that some do not use a de-chlorinator.

Barb,
The sodium theosulfate costs nothin' so you could always get some and try it out on your fish, see if it works---I've been using it on discus babies 2-3" for years as said and they tolerate it well in my tank, AND it cuts the chlorine instantly. I just throw the crystals into the tank--they melt away in 20-30 seconds and the work is done. I figured out how many little grains I need for each tank [we figured out the working formula for my use, and I can look that up for you--the directions on the little tub tell you how much is needed in grand terms [pond use].
I add the STS at the front end of the water change and they take care of the issue. [I'm no chemist but the research I did said that this is the primary ingredient in several water conditioner products on the market--you know what they all charge and now you know that several years worth of STS crystal costs about six bux....nice profit margin] My little $6 tub does something like 50,000 gals of water or something equally crazy.

Vince,
Looks like we have pretty much the same observations on this one, for Lake Michigan water in the Chicago area. Looking forward to having you join us for the Chicago meeting in a couple weeks!

Bill, I will give you a bit at the meeting and you can try it on one of your tanks--see how it works for your discus water in Naperville---it doesn't neutralize chloramines--just chlorine.

Best regards to all,
Harriett

[chrisf]

at the lower levels the chlorine/chloramine

Oh yes it does...

Even a tiny amount of those will effect any bio filter you have.

If you have an established tank missing out on water conditioners will have a very tiny effect and you may see a slight rise in ammonia/nitrite over a day or so. This isnt a problem in established tank as the bacteria soon catch up with ease, but if your still breaking in a tank it could be a problem. Or if your a bit sloppy with the tank housekeeping and dont have a stable environment you can cause a bio "hickup" for a week or so, especially if your stocking levels are high.

There are worse things you can do so dont loose sleep over it.

cf

[Alight]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_thiosulfate

I used sodium thiosulfate for years in crystal form. It's used (or was in the old days) for "fixing" photographic prints.

As you can read in the wikipedia entry above, it is also used to dechlorinate water and was the principle ingredient in most dechlorinators until chloramine came along.

There are chlorine measuring kits. I used one to find out the info I posted above about the chlorine levels in water in Chapel Hill.

If you want to play roulette with your Discus, don't measure your chlorine levels and use untreated tap water. If you want to use tap water without dechlorination, I strongly advise you to get a chlorine test kit, and use it regularly.

[Kindredspirit]

What this means for Marie is that she might have gotten lucky this time, but definitely don't push your luck.


Exactly ~ I do not think I can just not use Prime anymore and feel comfortable about it ~ what IF....one day it changed? We all have heard the horror stories!

Having said that ~


Since taking out this thread I have rec'vd quite a few interesting emails...telling me they do not use Prime and I shld be okay some from people I know and totally trust some from some I do not know at all.......one of particular interest was a very kind person whom I never knew lived here in Sac ~ told me that Sacramento water has no chloramines...he knows this for a fact as they have done research and contacted the water company...AND...I said I was actually outside of Sac now, in Roseville and they took it upon themselves to contact the Chief of Roseville Water Supply and he stated there are none in Roseville water either!

Amazing, kind person and I so appreciate it ~ :) for doing this ~

But....can the Chief guarantee this? Would you believe it? Would you stop using Prime? I am not sure that anything cld convince me....lol!

esp........since I just got home and my 55gal is cloudier than ever ~ I am at a loss on that one ~ never had this issue for so long and not been able to correct it http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_44.gif


Thanks Everyone ~ very interesting reading here ~


Marie ~ :balloon:

[traco]

You've only had the hydro sponge running, I think, a week? I would give it a bit longer. If it does not clear up with the extra filtration, then at least that is one variable taken out.:)

[White Worm]

Is it worth taking the chance? With the money spent on discus and as much as we like these fish, is a $8 dollar bottle of prime (which lasts months) too much? I'll not take their word for it. I'd just play it safe.

[Kindredspirit]

You've only had the hydro sponge running, I think, a week? I would give it a bit longer. If it does not clear up with the extra filtration, then at least that is one variable taken out.:)



Well ~ wanna know what I just did Barb? All on my own too:) ( so everyone drops dead by morning...) I just finished all my wc on all 4 tanks...I took the AC huge one that Marilyn sent me off the 55gal with the Rams and Discus...and put it on my fav tank that is cloudy for a month now! And I put that crappy TopFin on Ram tank:) Did not switch the contents either!

I guess I wanna see if the Rams and Discus tank cloudy up....then I will know it is the filter...plus it is so powerful....perhaps it will help ~

It was either this or put back up the HOT MAG and I hated that thing!!!

But it worked:)


Mike ~ I added Prime ~ I just HAD to:)

[Alight]

Roseville may not use chloramine, but they will be using some treatment, most likely chlorine. Chlorine can be just as deadly as chloramine, but can be removed by simply aerating water for 24 hours. I know you use the tap water directly, though.

Chlorine is also detoxed by Prime.

I suspect that the chlorine level at your tap is fairly low (or at least is at the present time). However, it will not always be that way.

I've seen a number of stories about tap water that was fine for years, suddenly becoming toxic to fish after cleaning of water lines, etc., that was not reported to the consumers.

[traco]

Marie, you're way closer to Jehmco for shipping. I want to try the Chloram-X dry version. Jason said in my thread was a good one to use. It does not get rid of chloramine though. There is also the dry version of Prime, Safe it's called. Do a search on that, way cheaper, I think, than the liquid version. You could become a shipper to Canada, yes!:D

[Kindredspirit]

I know about SAFE, the powder version of Prime...and you can keep it in the freezer I think DaveC said...on my thread ~

There was a reason I didnt get that back then...I can not remember what that was do you? lol!

[traco]

I think we were all waiting for someone else to buy and start using it. Guinea pig like. So, I vote for you to try it, kay?:D

[Kindredspirit]

I would love too!! But I can not afford it at the moment...:( Has to be cheaper in the long run....I want to say that I didnt get it previously cuz I could not find someone that had it? I dunno...

I am bored Barb:( Actually I am annoyed with AOL!...I am glad this is my thread, eh?

I want someone to help me with my cloudy tank issues....I took everything out of the 55gal tank save the two clay pots and the hydro sponge and a little bit of sand..dif larger filter...and still cloudy:( :(

What am I going to do?

[traco]

Someone is going to say to have patience and you have been patient. With just doing the switch of filters last night, I would imagine it would take a day or two to see if things improve. I hope it does cuz where does that leave you of what to do next?:confused:

[Kindredspirit]

I have no clue... and I switched out the filters two nights three wc ago!:mad: :mad:

I am thinking to what? Start completely over with this tank? Like take out all the sand and 100% change?

ridiculous.