Wiered discoloration and heavy breathing- what's going on!

[Paula B]

I did my ususal water change on the tank last night.
This morning when I looked at the tank the discus (red snakeskins) were breathing heavy and had weired extremely pale discoloration patches all over them. One of the mollies was dead and so were most of the shrimp. The discus looked just like when you spill clorox on a pair of blue jeans.. What is going on! and what do I do about it...

I did absolutely nothing different than ever before. I cleaned my hands before I got in the tank, I used the same equipment I always use, and the same additives from already opened bottles that I have been using 2x a week without issue. I use a python and refil with tap water at 86 degrees and add dechlorinator to the tank based on full tank volume. Same as always. I know my municipal water supply uses chlorine, but the concentrations are ususally very very low, and they do not use chloramines, and I dechlor anyway.



90 gallon heavily planted tank (w/CO2 and EI dosing)
6 discus (5 as of this morning)
2 angels
Some shrimp and black mollies
Densely planted
86 degrees
5.5 Ph
water changes every 4-6 days

[Tropical Haven]

I would say from everything else dying all of a sudden and the white patches on the discus I would lean towards high levels of ammonia. I could be wrong but when fish die that quick without hardly any warning thats what I would look too. I would do a massive water change after treating the water first and see if there is any traces of ammonia in the water. Sounds like to me that your local water department just put a heavy dose of something in the water without notice.

[billeagan]

sounds like its bacterial. Can you post a pic? Did you add any new fish to the tank? Clean filters/move rocks or gravel?

[Paula B]

No- no changes, no new livestock, No cleaning of the filter, no new hardscape, .... On wait- on Saturday I added a new plant, but it was a small plant and I don't think it could have done it. I really think it was the water change becasue it was SO drastic, so quick. No signs of anything and all of a sudden - whamo!

The tank has been up and running for two years plus- I can't imagine anything naturally ocurring could crash my bio filter overnight.

I will try to get a picture when I get home from work. There is no inflamation around the patches, no change in texture of their scales, no excess slime or fuzziness- its just patches of missing blue.. I wonder if my municipal water supply changed over to chloramines all of a sudden... I will try to call them today.

[Paula B]

In addition, the night before last I did a big water change on the 125- which also has angels and discus (among others) and there was absolutely zero side effect- so maybe it wasn't? I don't know...

[tpl*co]

CO2? Output on filter OK?

[Paula B]

Filter output is fine- pleanty of water movement, and has been, when I started the water change last night I could see water jettign out of the spray bar.
I turned off the CO2 this morning, but the CO2 flow was exactly the same as its always been. It wasn't a tank dump or lose valve. I only turned it off becasue when I saw the condition of the fish I raised up the spraybar out of the water to create lots of surface aggitation and increase O2 in the water. The C02 woudl have outgassed anyway so I just turned it off.

[Paula B]

I called my local water treatment plant and got one of the girls from the lab on the phone, there have been no changes to the treatment schedule, no new checmicals added to the water and the only thing they treat with is Chlorine gas- that's it. Nothing else is added and there have been no abnormal readings in any of the tests over the last two weeks. Last week we had very heavy rains one day and they increased the CL levels slightly for a couple days, but it has been back to normal since the start of this week.

Municipal water being ruled out maybe it is one of the fertilizers I use on the tank- although I have been using them on all the tanks without any problem... But maybe one of the solutions has "gone bad" somehow- I mean they are organic coumpounds, right? I guess it could be possible some bacteria or mold may have got in the solutions? I don't think that could be it either, but I am running out of possibilities and think I may dump them all and start over with fresh to be on the safe side- it won't be fun to dump all that money down the drain, but what else can I do?

[tpl*co]

Do you by chance use Seachem Excel? I had trouble with that when one of my discus swam through a dose.

[billeagan]

It could have been on the plant. Without seeing a pic and it sounding like a bacterial infection to me. do 80% WC's the next couple of days or I would hit with maracyn (erythomycin (sp?)) if you use meds.

[Paula B]

nope- no excel - use pressurized CO2 so there is no need.

As for Bacteria? I dont think it makes any sesne. ITs got to be a chemical issue first and formost not a biological one. It didn't come in on that plant.

Here are the facts:
1) Plants go in on Saturday fish are all fine - PS. I have been keeping planted tanks for 3 years and have never introduced a disease or parasite to my tanks - not even with the snails that sometimes come with them.
2) Waterchange Wednesday night
3) Wednesday night the fish and invertibrates take a drastic turn for the worse - 10 hours later I am pulling out bodies and the fish look half way to death.
4) We all know that bacteria is generally a opportunistic infection, it lives all around us all the time and usually needs a foothold and in this case there is no wound or weakness for it to take advantage of. These fish were extremely healthy- and they all came down with the exact same symptoms at exactly the same time?

Was it some strain of superbacteria that showed up carried by this plant host, then exloded in numbers in a pristine tank, and exactly 4 days, it had grown enough in numbers that although hadn't hurt the fish yet-
the population was massive enough that even after I removed HALF of it with a water change- only then did it decide to strike and it was strong enough that in a matter or 8 hours it went from unnoticable to killing everything. No way. I've never seen a bacterial infection that could kill a healthy fish in 10 hours. The discus were alive when I left, but the shrimp and one of the mollies were already dead.

Yet the waterchange that immidiately precipitated the event had nothing to do with it, AND I should do it again?

That doesn't make sense.

I am afraid that if I do another water change its going to kill these fish.

I am afraid that if I don't do another water change its going to kill these fish.

I am about to head home from work. They may be dead already and this discussion moot. God, please don't let that be the case....

[GrillMaster]

Hey Paula, nice talkin to ya again!!

Glad the fish are OK!! I heard your sigh of relief from here! :)

[Paula B]

Just an update,
I walked in the house last night fully expecting dead bodies, tears welling up in my eyes, I sat in the car for a moment steeling mysef for what I would find. Instead- all the fish were fine- like it never happened. All the blue was back where it belonged. No pale patches, nice red eyes.

Everyone had a nice big dinner and that's that...

Whatever it was, it had to be the water chemistry and had to had to be a direct result of the waterchange. Whatever it was killed my shrimp and obviously stressed out my fish, but I haven't IDed it. I hope it never happens again.

[Darren's Discus]

I'm Guessing your water supply up the chemicals in the water,i have had this a couple of times before,when i call them they say no changes yeah shure.always age your water it nearly cost me all my fish and once i lost a whole 4ft of 150 juvies there is no safer way than ageing your water you just can't trust what's coming out of your tap !


cheers

[CliffsDiscus]

Paula,
I think Darren hit the nail on the head, the water supply companies sometimes
will give an extra dose of chemical. This happens usually during the rainy
season.

Cliff