Nasty, Bad, Dead!

[fishmama]

I need your help please! About 3+ mos ago I had 2 angelfish contract some type of illness, for about a month I treated them in a hospital tank to no avail. I used fm&g, then maracyn 1 & 2 w/maroxy and coppersafe. I also went thru a round of metro. Each thru a full course. NOTHING helped!

Now I have another angel from the same tank, that has contracted what appears to be the same problem. The tank these angels came from is a 75 gal community tank, pH 7.0, avg temp 78.5 F, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrites, 5-10 Nitrates. This tank has been up and running well over a year.

Any ideas? Following are pics of the deceased fish:

[fishmama]

This is the current fish: Note the small red ulcer on its gill plate, which started out three days ago as a very, very small "pin prick". This fish is starting to develop irritation in the gills and exhibits some gasping/spitting behavior once in awhile. I do not see any of the gray patches that the last fish developed as of yet.

This fish is still swimming and eating normally. Any help appreciated!

[fishmama]

Photos:

[fishmama]

PS: The 1st photo above was three days ago. The following 3 photos are from today.

[fishmama]

Bump.....

Anyone with any idea?

[AmberC]

Hey fishmama,

I have seen that one time before, the hole on the gill. Actually gave me deja-vu looking at it. The preschool where my daughter goes, she bought two angels for a 30 gallon to be housed with barbs at the reassurance of an lfs. The only thing I could think of was that the barbs did it.

In your case I am sure its different esp with the others dying. So perhaps the barbs did not get the angel at the school.

I hope someone can help you here.

[fishmama]

Thanks Amber...I'm really stumped on this one. Wish I had a microscope. It is interesting that only the angelfish have succumbed to this. And that the occurrences were so far apart. I thought it was parasitic initially, but nothing seemed to help. Then I tried antibiotics and that did nothing either. Once you notice the "spot" it progresses quite aggressively.

I have one more angelfish left in there and he is my favorite! Hope he does not come down with it...I may just have to euthanise the afflicted one.

Here is my healthy guy:

[Ed13]

I actually posted yesterday on this thread, I think it was third comment, where di it go?

I would isolate this tank and get a lab to test the fish, hopefully is not TB but it sure sounds like it! Sudden death of otherwise healthy fish, ulcers, medicines won't work, hmm...

[fishmama]

Thanks Ed-

Boy, I sure hope it is not TB! I have my hands in this tank constantly :-(

Thankfully, this tank is effectively "isolated" as it has all separate supplies, hose, etc.

I called a few local vets, and no one does fish. Very frustrating!!! It is noteworthy that only the angelfish have this problem.

[pcsb23]

Looking at the pics I would say TB. I hope I am wrong, but I would proceed with the utmost caution. Make sure you wash your hands properly and that you use a seperate set of eequipment on this tank. If you have any open cuts, scratches or abrasions do not put your hands in the tank! It can be spread to humans. Kanamycin and vit B complex to treat, but it will take a month of continued treatment. I really hope I'm wrong.

[fishmama]

I have decided to euthanise him/her and attempt an autopsy. Have to do this after my 7 year old son goes to bed (it has been his fish since quarter size.)

I want to see if there are any granulomas inside. This fish had had no "wasting" behaviors, but it is not worth keeping in the tank.

Anything else I should look for in particular? The eyes are clear and no other external abnormalities.

[pcsb23]

Probably a good call.

[fishmama]

Here are the autopsy pics, rather graphic and messy, so I apologize in advance. BTW if you use clove oil (Euthanase)...it takes extra amount and longer for larger fish.

I saw nothing unusual or abnormal. I put a piece of the gill on a slide and tried it under a cheapy microscope with no results. I looked at the gill under a small amount of magnification and saw nothing. I looked at the backside of the operculum and could not see much. To me, it looks like the back side of the operculum is where the issue started.

What eats thru the back side of the gill plate? What externally looks like a small pin prick hole is much larger from the back.

[fishmama]

A few others. Looks like gravid female :-( Massacred kidney and heart removing gill plate...ooops.