Suggestions for 150g supplies

[Ryan]

So the stand is ordered and I'm about to order the tank. Those with large tanks, a few questions:

1. This is just a fish-only setup. I'm not planting it. Should I just get the standard tank or the one with overflows built in? I've never used overflows and I'm not sure what the benefits are. Is it easier just to use the typical sponge/power filter setup?

2. From the diagram on All-Glass Aquarium's website, it appears the tank has a brace that divides it into 3 sections on top. What size glass Versa-Top lids do I need for this? Their website shows the Versa-Top for the 150 gallon, but it doesn't tell me how big it is or how many I need. I'm going to order them online so I'll have to figure out which size is right.

3. What kind of heating and lighting do you recommend? Are compact fluorescents or twin fluorescents a good idea since this is a large/deep tank? I want it to be well-lit so I can enjoy my fish :)

Any comments or suggestions are welcome. It's not my 180 gallon, but it's very close!

Ryan

[brewmaster15]

Ryan,
Drfostersmith.com has the lids at a good price and a sizing chart.

If you want a really good heater.... talk to John at Jehmco about their titanium heaters with external hardwired controllers... They are very very reliable by all accounts.

one thing you'll want with the 150 is long handled algae scrubbers... The tank is too high for easy reach by hand...at least for me it is.

-al

[Ryan]

one thing you'll want with the 150 is long handled algae scrubbers... The tank is too high for easy reach by hand...at least for me it is.

How about 12 albino BN plecos? :D

[billeagan]

Did you go with the 4 foot 150?

[Ryan]

It's 72" x 18" x 28".

[Ed13]

We finally get to help out Ryan!

Here we Go!!



So the stand is ordered and I'm about to order the tank. Those with large tanks, a few questions:

1. This is just a fish-only setup. I'm not planting it. Should I just get the standard tank or the one with overflows built in? I've never used overflows and I'm not sure what the benefits are. Is it easier just to use the typical sponge/power filter setup?


Is it just a show tank for discus or anything else?
For a 150 I would do(only one) First Compare the price of the double overflow tank vs
-1 or 2 Rena XP3
-multiple sponge filters
-various power filters
-get the overflow version(one or two), but instead of a commercial sump just get another tank( 55g or larger if possible) below, glue some baffles for a section to house a lot of sponges and the heaters. The increase in the volume of total water and oxygen plus a place to hide heaters and a large quantity of filters is going to give plenty good water quality and still keep eveything well hidden.

I assume the stand is the iron one so unless you are willing to plumb a sump in another room hidding stuff is useless. The Rena might be your best option at a neat show tank



2. From the diagram on All-Glass Aquarium's website, it appears the tank has a brace that divides it into 3 sections on top. What size glass Versa-Top lids do I need for this? Their website shows the Versa-Top for the 150 gallon, but it doesn't tell me how big it is or how many I need. I'm going to order them online so I'll have to figure out which size is right.
They come labeled you only need to make sure tha brand and size of your tank is correct. They are interchangeable depending on size. For example Perfecto 29/20l or All glass 75/90



3. What kind of heating and lighting do you recommend? Are compact fluorescents or twin fluorescents a good idea since this is a large/deep tank? I want it to be well-lit so I can enjoy my fish :)

For heating go with double heaters (Titanium maybe) and invest in controller, I find myself drooling at some of them!
For light:
It doesn't really matter if its not going to house light loving organisms other than algae:p
A flourescent setup is cheaper, High output T5 is brighter and produces less heat than PC or MH, PC is has more light bulbs to choose from than T5. And although a bit Overkill MH will produce the grates impact.

I would like to go with a MH(albeit smaller, maybe 2 x 70w or 2 x150w) and then supplement with flourescents to adjust the desired effect. This of course means a DIY installation and some extra cash.

In other words just go for flourescents. The All-glass strips lights are cheap, run T8; T10 and T12 bulbs on an electronic ballasts, can be mounted on top of the tank without a Versa Top (not recommended if there are children or a clumsy owner) and their ballast can run PC bulbs if in the future you decide to upgrade to PC, There is no need to change the reflector since it has the PC slots!



How about 12 albino BN plecos? :D

A bit much if you ask me, but not a problem. Unless this is your fav plec there are a whole lot more spec suited for discus tanks that are far more impressive like Gold nuggets, L-14, Royal plecos, L-204, L 260, L333, L-114, L-200, L-128 etc.

HTH, I'm happy to help out with anything else!
If you could be a little bit more specific with what you want to achieve, it'll be of help!

[lillou]

1) You can go either way. The overflows give you more options of getting your equipment out of the tank and into the sump below (heaters, filter stuff, etc). With a all fish setup you will just see the overflow box in the corner or center of the tank.

2) The glass tops on that tank are the same as a 75 or 90 gallon tank with the obvious exception that you need three of them. The light is a different story since most tanks this size are sold for saltwater 6 foot fixtures are both expensive and have mondo wattages. Try two 36" power compact setups with 96 watt bulbs should give you more than enough light.

3) Heaters depend on where the tank is etc. If you go with the sump you can try a 500 W heater in the sump if you go that way. Or two 250W heaters with a heater controller.

[billeagan]

We finally get to help out Ryan!

Here we Go!!




Is it just a show tank for discus or anything else?
For a 150 I would do(only one) First Compare the price of the double overflow tank vs
-1 or 2 Rena XP3
-multiple sponge filters
-various power filters
-get the overflow version(one or two), but instead of a commercial sump just get another tank( 55g or larger if possible) below, glue some baffles for a section to house a lot of sponges and the heaters. The increase in the volume of total water and oxygen plus a place to hide heaters and a large quantity of filters is going to give plenty good water quality and still keep eveything well hidden.

I assume the stand is the iron one so unless you are willing to plumb a sump in another room hidding stuff is useless. The Rena might be your best option at a neat show tank

They come labeled you only need to make sure tha brand and size of your tank is correct. They are interchangeable depending on size. For example Perfecto 29/20l or All glass 75/90


For heating go with double heaters (Titanium maybe) and invest in controller, I find myself drooling at some of them!
For light:
It doesn't really matter if its not going to house light loving organisms other than algae:p
A flourescent setup is cheaper, High output T5 is brighter and produces less heat than PC or MH, PC is has more light bulbs to choose from than T5. And although a bit Overkill MH will produce the grates impact.

I would like to go with a MH(albeit smaller, maybe 2 x 70w or 2 x150w) and then supplement with flourescents to adjust the desired effect. This of course means a DIY installation and some extra cash.

In other words just go for flourescents. The All-glass strips lights are cheap, run T8; T10 and T12 bulbs on an electronic ballasts, can be mounted on top of the tank without a Versa Top (not recommended if there are children or a clumsy owner) and their ballast can run PC bulbs if in the future you decide to upgrade to PC, There is no need to change the reflector since it has the PC slots!




A bit much if you ask me, but not a problem. Unless this is your fav plec there are a whole lot more spec suited for discus tanks that are far more impressive like Gold nuggets, L-14, Royal plecos, L-204, L 260, L333, Jaguar plecs, L-200, L-128 etc.

HTH, I'm happy to help out with anything else!
If you could be a little bit more specific with what you want to achieve, it'll be of help!

Ed,
Great seletion of pleco's -- I would add the L114 (red tail leopard) LDA33 (snow ball), L7 Vampire =)

[Ed13]

Ed,
Great seletion of pleco's -- I would add the L114 (red tail leopard) LDA33 (snow ball), L7 Vampire =)

I'm sorry I was thinking of the L-114 when I wrote Jaguar pleco:o I'll edit
For some reason I really like the way big Panaques like L-190, L-191, L-027 and Pseudacanthicus Leopardus(L-114) look agaisnt Discus especially wild

The L-007 is one of my fav, Last time I was offered one was at $100 special price from a Wholeseller direct from the exporter for 3-4" That's why I did not mentioned it

BTW, bill when the wild discus season returns you and I might need to have a talk!;) :D

edit: For cleaning a large magnet does wonders in show tanks, you can clean the front and side panes daily and then use an algae scrapper on the back pane weekly

[Ryan]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

A couple questions about the filters. I've always done power filters or sponges. One of the reasons I am nervous about the canister filters is because of power outages. Won't the bacteria suffocate fairly quickly in the event of a power outage? I live in Florida, so there are lots of thunderstorms and hurricanes to worry about. Plus I live in a rural area, so sometimes our power can be out for several hours. We're not exactly a high priority when it comes to restoring power.

Also, with the overflow-type filters, what's the risk of flooding?

The reason I mentioned the BN plecos is because I have 12 from Chrisb that are growing out and doing really well. They've kept my tanks spotless and I haven't had to wipe down anything in my current discus tank except the lids and the top trim where the water line is. I was just going to move them all into the 150 with the discus.

[billeagan]

I'm sorry I was thinking of the L-114 when I wrote Jaguar pleco:o I'll edit
For some reason I really like the way big Panaques like L-190, L-191, L-027 and Pseudacanthicus Leopardus(L-114) look agaisnt Discus especially wild

The L-007 is one of my fav, Last time I was offered one was at $100 special price from a Wholeseller direct from the exporter for 3-4" That's why I did not mentioned it

BTW, bill when the wild discus season returns you and I might need to have a talk!;) :D

edit: For cleaning a large magnet does wonders in show tanks, you can clean the front and side panes daily and then use an algae scrapper on the back pane weekly

Ed,

Not to derail the topic, but I have the L7 wild in my tanks for $20 or $25 at 4 maybe 5 inches so you can tell your wholesaler - well I'll let you tell him what you want =)

[billeagan]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

A couple questions about the filters. I've always done power filters or sponges. One of the reasons I am nervous about the canister filters is because of power outages. Won't the bacteria suffocate fairly quickly in the event of a power outage? I live in Florida, so there are lots of thunderstorms and hurricanes to worry about. Plus I live in a rural area, so sometimes our power can be out for several hours. We're not exactly a high priority when it comes to restoring power.

Also, with the overflow-type filters, what's the risk of flooding?

The reason I mentioned the BN plecos is because I have 12 from Chrisb that are growing out and doing really well. They've kept my tanks spotless and I haven't had to wipe down anything in my current discus tank except the lids and the top trim where the water line is. I was just going to move them all into the 150 with the discus.

The canisters will not overflow... A sump will if you don't have a float on it (I'm not a sump expert)....

I would do a rena xp3 or xp4, some sponges and a biowheel or two.
On my 150 I have :
4 hydro 4's
2 biowheel 350
rena xp3

no issues with over 70 discus, couple dozen cory's, various pleco's including a rhino or two****

***Note to new hobbiest: this is a stock tank and is over stocked with sufficient filtration and WC's please do not attempt this with your own personal tank =)

[Ed13]

A couple questions about the filters. I've always done power filters or sponges. One of the reasons I am nervous about the canister filters is because of power outages. Won't the bacteria suffocate fairly quickly in the event of a power outage? I live in Florida, so there are lots of thunderstorms and hurricanes to worry about. Plus I live in a rural area, so sometimes our power can be out for several hours. We're not exactly a high priority when it comes to restoring power.

I hear you on the hurricanes! I haven't had a problem so far. It is said that in a canister under this circumstances bacteria only lasts for ~30 min. I don't buy into this though. I've gone hours without power with no trouble, of course opening the canister helps out.


Also, with the overflow-type filters, what's the risk of flooding?

there is a 50/50 chance. Ok, not much if the sump has enough area for the water still making its way down and if there are check valves and/or backflow preventors(a simple hole) in the return plumbing. In part this is why I recommended a large sump( a large tank or a one off those rubbermaid trouts) with baffels. You wont really have a wet & dry ,but you'll have way more space than a commercial sump. Just use sponge filters and/or powerfilters in the high water area or you can keep ceramic rings or other media submerged.



The reason I mentioned the BN plecos is because I have 12 from Chrisb that are growing out and doing really well. They've kept my tanks spotless and I haven't had to wipe down anything in my current discus tank except the lids and the top trim where the water line is. I was just going to move them all into the 150 with the discus.

Nothing wrong with adding the 12, but I'm sure that you'll need to make sure they are eating. Even if it is a 150g they consume sow much algae and other stuff that they won't have enough to scavenge. Algae wafers, lettuce, cucumbers, zuchini etc will do it. Maybe even a homemade recipe. You'll also need to give them enough territories for males. Not much space to add other plecos though. They still poop like there is no one looking! LOL

[greyhoundfan]

Ryan, where did you get the stand from? Did you order it off the net or from your local LFS? Got a pic?

[Ryan]

I finally found an LFS that could special order one for me. It should be here in a couple weeks and I'll take some pictures.

Yes, the BN's crap like there's no tomorrow. I don't worry too much about their diet -- they eat everything. I feed them zucchini, Sera catfish chips, and they also eat whatever the discus get. They love bloodworms, mysis, and beefheart scraps. They're not the most beautiful plecos but I've really enjoyed mine. They earn their keep.

I'm still throwing around the ideas for filtration. I guess I could do a canister... is there a way to set it up so that if the power goes off it trips it and keeps it from turning back on? My biggest fear is the power going out while I'm working, the bacteria dying off, and then it kicking back on before I can make it home. If it would just stay off until I could get home to tend to it, that'd be better. I'd have sponges in the tank to keep things aerated and circulating.

Ryan

[FishLover888]

Hold off buying the lids. I think they come with the tank. I bought mine (125g 72x18x22) All-Glass Aquarium tank and it came with the lids. You can buy additional lids on line. I broke mine few times alread and had to replace them. Still have some spare parts.

I don't think the sponge filters will have enough water flow to avoid dead spots unless you put 5 or 6 of them into the tank. I use two cannister filters and have spray bars to reduce the current and dead spots.

As for power outage. I bought an UPS for computers and it can last me for up to 4 hours. You can do the same. Just make sure the wattage can support your filters for the period you want. Bigger wattage cost more. Mine cost about $40. Don't bother plug in your heater with the UPS. They will drain your UPS in minutes.

HTH

[Ryan]

I think I'm going to go with the Rena canisters. What sort of media do you all put in yours, and how often do you do maintenance? I'll get a UPS and plug them into that. Maybe that'll help with the power outages. If we have extended outages I guess I could just open the canisters to let the bacteria breathe.

Now I'm going to look into heaters and lights.

This is becoming the most expensive aquarium-related investment ever :)

[Ed13]

Well how many canisters?
If Two you can concentrate one mechanical and chemical media if needed and the other for biological.
You'll do them on both. The water passes the media from the bottom layer to the top one. Think of it as an RO system. The bottom layer needs to filter large particlas so go with the sponges. THe middle basket is supposed to be house with either carbon or biological media like ceramic rings, bio stars or that new media that is very porous and large. The final basket uses the pads to filter small particles polishing the water.

I like to go ont the first starting at the bottom
-sponges
-I use the replacement filters from Pondmaster here, the white one
-a polishing filter pad in the last basket, pondmaster blue/white is good

On the second filter
-sponges
-full of ceramic rings
-either more ceramic ring or other submergable media and a final layer of the polishing pad

BTW, they come with media! You could just use that!;) :D

You won't regret it I love this things and I've done a whole lot of tanks from 10g to custom sizes with just these

While I beleive the make surge protectors that simply have to be reset everytime there is an outage, a UPS is worth it if you can afford it!

[billeagan]

Its expensive, but look at Sera's siporax!