Aquascape help...please?

[dragonlover]

Could anyone please help? All comments are welcome--especially constructive criticism!:) The before pic is the first one...my husband did not like the open area to the right, and the filter intake was harder for me to see and reach...so obviously not a good set up. Anyway, the second two pics are after remodel. I only had to move one corym by working around the plants.

Speaking of, the amazon is ???(who remembers?) years old--can't remember buying it and its been there years and years (just sold it's twin two months ago), but the rest of the plants are only 1-2 months in the tank. I am new to discus and lost all my lower temp plants...and my moneywort isn't looking so hot, either.

Working with four large brown driftwood and one large mopani. Would like to keep all in tank in my belief it softens my water somewhat (yeah, right.) Any other suggs to soften water without R/O or aging?

Please tell me if you can see ways for me to improve my aquascape. There will be a blue background...I promise...but I need to recruit the husband's help to hang. Thanks in advance. BTW, the streaks on back right of tank aren't streaks...it's a bubble bar, and no, my fish aren't all blurry in person either...sorry for terrible photography!

Edit: I added picture of how much tank progressed through the help given in this thread so far.

[fishmama]

Hi Laura-

I'm no aquascapist by any stretch of the imagination, but I really love where you are going with this. Opening up the middle and balancing the sides works. I think the tank looks much better with the background off! Maybe some sort of low lying foreground cover would be nice.

Looks like the fish are settling in finally! Do you have many problems vacuuming the gravel when doing water changes with all those plants?

Lisa

[dandestroy]

Couple of sugestion, but keep it ming that they are just opinion and think of it mainly to give you new idea,

trying is the only way of finding what works, and you are on a good start.

put some small anubia nana in the right front corner (try to let the rizome above the gravel otherwise they might rot).

Clear the center a bit more to really define the two left and right Island of plant.
Not saying to remove it all, but try do create some kind of slope that goes down and then back up if you where to draw a line over the plant horizon.

Use the bacopa (moneywort) to create a bigger bunch that you can put in the backgound on the right side 1/3 from the end of the tank jto fill in a bit more that backgound (your bacopa will growth tick real fast and it will look like a nice crutain, just cut and plant beside until you are satify with the covering you get).

Black background will look a lot better than blue with planted tank (you can get a two face blue and black in case you fell like trying them both). Discus don't then to be to dark when they are surounded with green plants even when they have a black background.

[tacks]

Hi You and your husband are doing very well with your tank. My 2 cents If you are going to keep all of the wood, then you can split it as you have. I would put some large swords around the back of the wood pieces. You can buy grass at all heights and put some in front of the wood so you can difine the area between the driftwood. At the back of the tank in themiddle between your driftwood I would put some crypts, you can get some with dark leaves. I think all tanks need some type of foreground plant again use short grass just keep it cut. A foreground plant willgive the tank a look of depthWith discus you need some open area where they can feed. The 2 of you are doing great, have fun Ed

[Harriett]

Some additional imput:
I agree with what Tacks has suggested, but one thing Francois suggested I would like to express caution about: a black background in a discus tank not so great as it turns out--I just went thru a whole lot of work to get rid of mine after several years. Although I love the dramatic effect of it and have used it in planted community tanks for years, a black background doesn't work great with many kinds of discus--since they try to blend into it [hard wiring for safety], blue fish go dark, and PB based discus tend to speckle/pepper. There was a really significant change in color and vibrancy in my discus when I lost the blackbackground and painted a light green/blue on my planted tank.

OK, here are my own added couple a cents worth:
1. Sorry, the gravel is MUCH too large. It makes the tank and large pieces of wood actually look oddly small, but the biggest thing to me is that it looks 'unnatural'...I would like to see either much smaller size gravel, or a nice silica sand [my current fave---I dumped my gravel also]. Besides the esthetic problem for me with this substrate, it is harder to root plants in big rocks, esp fine rooted plants. It is likely that ditrius will build up to higher levels as well because there are giant spaces for it to fall to, so I think you'd be more likely to develop bacterial issues from old food stuck down in there, in a while.
2. I also like the driftwood alot and the placement across the tank seems pretty good. It does appear from the pics that the wood is all at about the same depth of field and I think it would be more interesting to bring some a bit forward and push some back. Plant in front and behind the wood for a more natural effect and plant in clumps---grasses or crypt retrospiralis, so sags are possibilities for easy starters--as is bacopa. Plants in nature don't grow in straight evenly spaced patterns and it distracts me from how pretty your plants are. I.E.: the left third of the tank is looking good, but when my eye moves the tank going to the right, what I am left with is what appears to be mostly evenly spaced swords, etc. Not so good. If you plant in clumps and leave open spaces, your discus will be happy and it will look more realistic. Try to leave an open area where the food drops in so your guys can clean it up better, too--you may already be doing that, I expect.
3. Depth of field keeps coming up with this tank. I think it's mostly missing here [except, again--left side is stronger here] but there is good potential--the wood is a real good foundation to set it in that direction. You can actually direct the viewers' eye thru the tank if you figure out what you want them to experience when you plan/design...what will catch the eye, how to move the viewer thru the tank, if you will. So I'd think about a couple of things: there are many greens in aquatic plants--vary them. There are reds you might try as well, if your lights are good--there are a few easy to grow red swords that would work. Vary the texture of your plants with larger, smaller, finely leaved, more grossly leaved palnts to bring more interest. ALWAYS plant smaller type plants [bacopa, crypts, etc.] in clumps, do not string them out. Practice asymmetry, don't try to balance every plant--look for a larger balance--a balance in color and in the weightiness, if you will, of the areas. Bilateral symmetry is boring.
4. Keep experimenting with placement and new plants--some will work, some won't, and you'll get a feel for the picture and feeling you are trying to create.
Hope this helps--I am endlessly fooling around in my planted tank--once in a while I even like it!
Have fun!!!!!
Best regards
Harriett

[Deepak]

Deva ! HArriett are you a interior designer or what :p You call THAT 2 cents worth :confused: I'll need your help when I setup my new home :)

[Harriett]

Deepak,
You are too funny and thank you for the compliment. I'm a long time gardener and artisit and just have a decent eye--. For me, doing a planted tank is a glorified gardening and art project in motion.
I'll put you in touch with my daughter--she IS an interior designer..apple didn't fall far from the tree, LOL.
Best regards
Harriett

[Tropical Haven]

Boy you don't want to see my decorated tank, it has 4 sponge filters and 2 Emperor 350 filters hanging on the back of my 125 gal tank with bare bottom. But you know I like my decorated tank, has everything I need in it. :D

[dragonlover]

Thank you so much, Harriett! I did have a "pictured" background on the tank and I noticed that my MR started to pepper under the chin and on the pelvic fins...so yes, I am not willing to go with a black background but think I should be okay with the blue.

Very nice suggestion about gravel size...I never even thought that before but once you mentioned it I think you are absolutely correct about the proportion of gravel to wood, etc. I used to do a sand substrate...and looks like I need to head that way again....boy, a lot of work ahead...:)

Depth of tank has always been my main short-coming in aquascaping. I try to vary placement, but do seem drawn to putting all in the middle.:( One thing the pictures do not show so well is the water sprite planted along the back of the tank starting after the moneywort and continuing behind the driftwood on right. I am hoping once this grows more it will give me more depth--plants are still babies. I also really like the feathery leaves of the water sprite...was trying to count on that texture to offset the hard lines of all the swords. Also, there is a large radican sword behind the wood on the right, the pic only shows one leaf sticking up. Maybe I should move the moneywort back there instead? Or, maybe I should move the driftwood back further...

I like the idea of opening up the middle more...will try moving some of my red crypts around a little....think they should go right front??? maybe more in clumps in front of right driftwood?? Or, should I move the water sprite exclusively to the right and move the red crypts toward the back of the tank in the middle....hmmm.....?

Yeah, having kept a planted tank forever I know things are constantly evolving and changing....trying to nurse that moneywort, would definitely like to make a larger clump with it....great suggestions on grassy plants, but I really haven't had any luck with giant or dwarf hairgrass. My tank is so low tech you wouldn't believe me if I told you...

[Harriett]

Laura,
1. "I try to vary placement, but do seem drawn to putting all in the middle."
So if you are drawn to do a middle design, try it. Amano built a career out of making volcano shaped motifs with his driftwood in the middle of his tanks...
You just pile up the wood, and look at the plants as gowing on it [anubias, java fern, etc], and then trailing away from the wood, using other plants rooted in the substrate: some behind the configuration, some to the sides, some to the front, with areas free of vegetation as you'd see in nature. [mystery is good--you shouldn't be able to see everything in the tank from one viewing place--you should have to investigate a little, you know?]
2."...water sprite planted along the back of the tank starting after the moneywort and continuing behind the driftwood on right. "
Remember to clump your plants-group them as they grow out, make cuttings and put them near the parent plant, expand out to make it look as though the plant divided on it's own [in nature, you'll either see babies come up around the base of the mother plant or all in one area near her, if there is was wind blowing]
3. "Depth of tank has always been my main short-coming in aquascaping."
If that's a prblem for you to visualize, try mapping the tank like you would a room where you want to put furniture--bird's eye looking down. If you start that way with the foundational plants and the wood, it will set it in motion and be easier. The bigger concept for me in playing around with this stuff is to create something that flows and pulls me thru it like a painting--you can trick the viewer into sort of falling into the picture. You can do it with repetition of color or texture or form to weave thru...think of it like plotting out a track for the fish to swim thru, wind thru. get it? What you want to include is a strong feature to pull you back toward the middle of the tank, not just as bookends, or you get stuck at the edges of the tank visually and it's subtley uncomfortable--you want to be pulled back to repeat the loop.
4. red crypt questions--I keep mine in middle or front in the tank--they will get lost in the back--they also spread so nicely and make their own mounds.
When you are just getting your planted tank going at the beginning, it seems like folks tend to stretch out the plants across the tank because there aren't enough plants and it looks naked...way better to have compact areas of plantings and areas unplanted, visually--it will fill out in due time, OR throw in a lot of fast growing stem plants while your other specimens get going to fill in until the rooted plants get larger and can take over.
If you have trouble with grasses, do try retrospiralis, it does quite well in lo tech tanks and looks so graceful.
Hope this helps a bit.
Really, try doing drawings of the footprint as though you are above the tank, and plot out the basics of your design as a first step for help with field depth.
Remember, it takes [for me] most of a year for a planted tank to mature! Is this hi or low tech, what are your lights? Perhaps you already mentioned that stuff and I missed it. Fertilizing with what?
Best regards
Harriett

[Deepak]

Boy you don't want to see my decorated tank, it has 4 sponge filters and 2 Emperor 350 filters hanging on the back of my 125 gal tank with bare bottom. But you know I like my decorated tank, has everything I need in it. :D

Good thing you did'nt post a pic ;) ......J/K:) BTW mine's the same :D :D :D :D

[Deepak]

Deepak,
You are too funny and thank you for the compliment. I'm a long time gardener and artisit and just have a decent eye--. For me, doing a planted tank is a glorified gardening and art project in motion.
I'll put you in touch with my daughter--she IS an interior designer..apple didn't fall far from the tree, LOL.
Best regards
Harriett

Thanks LOL, I feel like a clown now :jester: ........since you are a horticulturist you must have no probs maintaining a heavily planted tank :rolleyes: I was never too successful with aquarium plants :( Now I know where to ask for pointers :)

[Polar_Bear]

First off, you are doing a wonderful job with your plants, they are all healthy looking and algae free. That said, I agree with both Francois and Harriet. With Francois about the two focal points, never a great idea. Either bridge them together somehow or weight one far more than the other. Your tank is not wide enough to support them IMO. Harriet's suggestion is a very good one about the substrate, and she should know since her 180 used to have a substrate just about identical to yours, and she heard me ragging on her daily about it <ewg> Get something with a MUCH smaller particle size, the plants will thank you and you will be able to keep the tank far cleaner.

I must add that you and your husband do have the 'eye" for aquascaping, and it does look nice. My suggestion is to take a look here http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi and see how award winners 'scaped their tanks.

[tacks]

Hi Polar Bear and Harriet have given you some great ideas. For me I dont know how wide you tank is. But to acquire soe depth or appearence of I start with the lowest plants I can grow in the front and then a plant a little taller and so forth till I get to the back of the tank. I get the largest swords I can and they go in the cornors orbach of the tank. I thy not to let all the plants touch each other, some spacing between them so as too difine them. Sometimes I haveover planted and then gone in and started to remove plants and before yo know it you have a nice lay out. I feel people try to spread there plants to thin you cant put enough plants in there to begin with As I said before the tank looks geat and you need more plants in there and I agree the gravel is too large. Just my 2 cents Ed

[Ed13]

1. Sorry, the gravel is MUCH too large. It makes the tank and large pieces of wood actually look oddly small, but the biggest thing to me is that it looks 'unnatural'...I would like to see either much smaller size gravel, or a nice silica sand [my current fave---I dumped my gravel also]. Besides the esthetic problem for me with this substrate, it is harder to root plants in big rocks, esp fine rooted plants. It is likely that ditrius will build up to higher levels as well because there are giant spaces for it to fall to, so I think you'd be more likely to develop bacterial issues from old food stuck down in there, in a while.


This is extremly good advice!!Not only will it look better a gravel <3mm will be better for growth and will be easier for the fish to pick food at the bottom



2. I also like the driftwood alot and the placement across the tank seems pretty good. It does appear from the pics that the wood is all at about the same depth of field and I think it would be more interesting to bring some a bit forward and push some back. Plant in front and behind the wood for a more natural effect and plant in clumps---grasses or crypt retrospiralis, so sags are possibilities for easy starters--as is bacopa. Plants in nature don't grow in straight evenly spaced patterns and it distracts me from how pretty your plants are. I.E.: the left third of the tank is looking good, but when my eye moves the tank going to the right, what I am left with is what appears to be mostly evenly spaced swords, etc. Not so good. If you plant in clumps and leave open spaces, your discus will be happy and it will look more realistic. Try to leave an open area where the food drops in so your guys can clean it up better, too--you may already be doing that, I expect.

Again, great advice. I will add that its distracting to keep wood, gravel or rocks of different varieties!

Two thums up again. A plating plan is a very valuable instrument, it will help ypu regarding esthethics and also to plan for plant growth and possible prunning schedules



Laura,
1. "I try to vary placement, but do seem drawn to putting all in the middle."
So if you are drawn to do a middle design, try it. Amano built a career out of making volcano shaped motifs with his driftwood in the middle of his tanks...
You just pile up the wood, and look at the plants as gowing on it [anubias, java fern, etc], and then trailing away from the wood, using other plants rooted in the substrate: some behind the configuration, some to the sides, some to the front, with areas free of vegetation as you'd see in nature. [mystery is good--you shouldn't be able to see everything in the tank from one viewing place--you should have to investigate a little, you know?]
2."...water sprite planted along the back of the tank starting after the moneywort and continuing behind the driftwood on right. "
Remember to clump your plants-group them as they grow out, make cuttings and put them near the parent plant, expand out to make it look as though the plant divided on it's own [in nature, you'll either see babies come up around the base of the mother plant or all in one area near her, if there is was wind blowing]
3. "Depth of tank has always been my main short-coming in aquascaping."
If that's a prblem for you to visualize, try mapping the tank like you would a room where you want to put furniture--bird's eye looking down. If you start that way with the foundational plants and the wood, it will set it in motion and be easier. The bigger concept for me in playing around with this stuff is to create something that flows and pulls me thru it like a painting--you can trick the viewer into sort of falling into the picture. You can do it with repetition of color or texture or form to weave thru...think of it like plotting out a track for the fish to swim thru, wind thru. get it? What you want to include is a strong feature to pull you back toward the middle of the tank, not just as bookends, or you get stuck at the edges of the tank visually and it's subtley uncomfortable--you want to be pulled back to repeat the loop.
Really, try doing drawings of the footprint as though you are above the tank, and plot out the basics of your design as a first step for help with field depth.
Remember, it takes [for me] most of a year for a planted tank to mature! Is this hi or low tech, what are your lights? Perhaps you already mentioned that stuff and I missed it. Fertilizing with what?
Best regards
Harriett


Harriet pretty much got everything down and well explained!

In my last attempts at planted discus tanks I've come to rely a lot in wood, Amazons(and other rosette type plants), crypts not( mostly red and green wendtii, balansae, retrospiralis), anubias, ferns. In other words I intentionally left out when possible stem plants. If needed Indica, micranthemus, eusterallis, ammamina, rosanervig and other hygrophilas closed the deal!
I'm just saying it worked for me in keeping things easy by first worrying about hardscape, rosette plants, rhysome plants and then stem plants if needed
Don't forget that discus need a place to forage and a sand foreground can make an impressive display!

Good luck

[dragonlover]

...my husband did not like the open area to the right....

...but I need to recruit the husband's help to hang.

First, this is the extent of the hubby's involvement here. Notice the lovely background--oh, wait, yeah not up yet. He does carry heavy stuff for me, though.:D He is a tank-looker only...no feeding even.

Thank you everyone for your help...these are your results...how well did I do this time? I used all the same wood and plants (just divided like heck), but obviously, replaced the gravel with sand. Had sand in a mbuna/severum set-up before...now I forgot why I went back to gravel already. :D

Depth does look flatter in the photo than it is....I used a step-stool and decorated from above...thanks for the advice. And, though I am really happy with the outcome, please still feel free to help me along further. In other words, critiques are still MORE THAN WELCOME!

[Polar_Bear]

Laura,
What size tank is that? I'm guessing that it's a 75 gallon. Two things, the sword plants will soon take over that tank, so unless you are willing to continually do heavy pruning on them, one really should go. The other is that your new layout looks very contrived to me, this is not necessarily a bad thing, but between the growth of the swords and your layout I think it will soon be out of control. One other thing to note is that your water level should always be higher than the plastic band. This is to reflect light back into the water, when it is a bit low like yours you are losing a lot of light. I would also try to hide at least the heater a bit better, perhaps turn it horizontal? I llike the new substrate very much.

[dragonlover]

Laura,
What size tank is that? I'm guessing that it's a 75 gallon. Two things, the sword plants will soon take over that tank, so unless you are willing to continually do heavy pruning on them, one really should go. The other is that your new layout looks very contrived to me.


yes, it is a 75gallon show, so it is 18" wide and 48" long. As far as swords taking over, are you talking Amazon or Radican? If you mean the Amazon, this is a plant I have had for years and years and just divided yesterday. I used to have another on the right but I sold it a couple of months ago....pruning is fine with me...with all the w/c's there's no prob there... What do you mean by contrived? I mean, I know the definition, just wondering if you are referring to wood, plants, or the whole shebang? What would you change?

Oh, and yeah, I always keep the water level higher...just excited to take the pics...it's full now. Okay, this may be a stupid question, but can I turn my heater horizontal and totally immerse it? I have seen this in all other tanks on here, but you don't have to have a special heater, do you? (Please don't laugh...never had one horizontal before.)

[dragonlover]

Just got back from the LFS and added two anubias in front of the DW to the right and a bunch of mondo grass to the front left. I also moved all my bronze wendtii together and twisted the leftmost pc of DW.

Did this make any difference? Also, response to stupid heater question, anyone?

[phidelt85]

Just got back from the LFS and added two anubias in front of the DW to the right and a bunch of mondo grass to the front left. I also moved all my bronze wendtii together and twisted the leftmost pc of DW.

Did this make any difference? Also, response to stupid heater question, anyone?

Laura, I'm really liking your tank and the journey it's been taking. Keep up the great effort and work. I do have a question. The large sword in the back right, what is it? I have the same one I got from a fellow member at our local auction but I don't know what it is.

In regards to the Mondo grass, I would chunk it. It's not a true aquatic plant and will only wither and die and screw up your chemistry.. I would go with something like Sagittaria subulata, or corkscrew vals, or giant vallisneria. I have the Sag. Subulata in mine and it is an excellent background plant. I will eventually fill in nicely and give you a dense look and feel to the rear of the tank. I would also go with some reds like Harriett had recommended it will give you some good contrast to all the green. Otherwise, I love the tank it is looking much better with the sand.

In regards to the heater, yes, you can lay it horizontally as long as it is fully submersible. YOu won't have any issues with it. Make for hiding much easier.

JOse

[phidelt85]

BTW, can you get a shot from the side. I'd like to see what it looks from the side

I think you already mentioned this but I am currently scraping the black paint of the back of my planted tank because my blue diamonds are darker, and blue pigeon is showing all his peppering which he was spotless when I got him from GCD so I know it's due to my black background. My turks are also showing all they're stress bars although they are as happy as a clam. I'm going with a "niagara falls" color from Lowe's Olympia line. It is a very pale whitish blue. Really looks nice under my plant lights it's no where near the dark blue of those storebought backgrounds.

[Alight]

Jose got his post in as I was typing mine!!


You need a submersible heater to do what you want to do. They are available at a good price (get the visi therm stealth heater) from a number of places including Fosters and Smiths.

Mondo grass is not an aquatic plant. I've found that dwarf hairgrass is about the best "lawn" for a Discus tank, as it seem to be the only foreground plant the Discus don't attack. Fosters and Smiths is also having a sale on that, but I don't usually buy plants from them, because their selection is limited, and shipping is high.

[Ed13]

Laura, I'm really liking your tank and the journey it's been taking. Keep up the great effort and work. I do have a question. The large sword in the back right, what is it? I have the same one I got from a fellow member at our local auction but I don't know what it is.
Looks like a Radican Sword, same genus as the marbled queen. They are supposed to mee medium swords, but the onesI kept in a 24" high tank beg to differ. They reach the surfaced in a week.
I first thought the sword in the pic was Muricatus but the fact that is still underwater eliminated that option. 3" or more for a muricatus is easy!



In regards to the Mondo grass, I would chunk it. It's not a true aquatic plant and will only wither and die and screw up your chemistry.. I would go with something like Sagittaria subulata, or corkscrew vals, or giant vallisneria. I have the Sag. Subulata in mine and it is an excellent background plant. I will eventually fill in nicely and give you a dense look and feel to the rear of the tank. I would also go with some reds like Harriett had recommended it will give you some good contrast to all the green. Otherwise, I love the tank it is looking much better with the sand.


Good call on the sag, I beleive is one of the most appropiate to replace the Mondo grass. Sag is one of those plants great for tying together foreground and midground but horrible as a foreground plant. It will look nice growing around the perimeter of the sand foreground.

echinodorus tenellus is a great option for a foreground as is lilaopsis and dwarf hairgrass. I preffer tenellus in smaller tanks and quadricostatus in xtra large tanks

[phidelt85]

echinodorus tenellus is a great option for a foreground as is lilaopsis and dwarf hairgrass. I preffer tenellus in smaller tanks and quadricostatus in xtra large tanks
I'm going with a ditto on this one. Right now I'm having a go with the lileopsis brasiliensis but as Ed has been stating in my thread and I am currently witnessing, I am having more of a vertical growth vs. the filling in of the substrate. I'm currently looking at adding more lighting just for the foreground foliage. I've got e. tenellus growing in a 5gal NPT that is taking forever to do anything. It is very healthy but is not spreading like I had hoped.

[fishmama]

Hi Laura!

WOW! You went right for it....what a difference already. The fish seem to be taking the transition well. And their colors look much nicer with the white sand and lighter look of the tank :-) Did you notice any less peppering with the "MP/Marlboros?" !

Happy planting!
Lisa

[tacks]

Hi Laura The tank is looking great, the new substrate is awsome. You are getting the look of some depth to the tank. The use of dwarf hairgrass in the front or sides as mentioned by Ed will really help a lot. Stay with it. I had one question how big are your discus? Ed

[dragonlover]

I hope I am not killing everyone with all the posting....patience has never been a virtue for me!:D

How funny I bought an non-aquatic plant. I actually thought they had it labeled wrong (which LFS are famous for) and I was buying cyperus helferi. Obviously, I am not much of a botanist!:o BTW, guys, I really need a botanical handbook for all the Latin!:D Talk about working my browser....


Laura,
What you want to include is a strong feature to pull you back toward the middle of the tank, not just as bookends, or you get stuck at the edges of the tank visually and it's subtley uncomfortable--you want to be pulled back to repeat the loop.


I think I really still need help with this...I'm not real artistic...how am I doing here?



Either bridge them together somehow or weight one far more than the other. My suggestion is to take a look here http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2006.cgi and see how award winners 'scaped their tanks.

Wow! spent last night looking at this and was really impressed by some of them. It's like magic....But, also, IMO some of them are too overgrown--after all, my tank is about the discus first and foremost!


BTW, can you get a shot from the side. I'd like to see what it looks from the side

I'm going with a "niagara falls" color from Lowe's Olympia line. It is a very pale whitish blue. Really looks nice under my plant lights it's no where near the dark blue of those storebought backgrounds.

Side shots are attached. I think that color sounds divine, I would love to see a pic after you paint it. There is no chance of that for me...my tank is sandwiched between a fireplace and window & I can't even get behind it to put the background on myself!


Mondo grass is not an aquatic plant. I've found that dwarf hairgrass is about the best "lawn" for a Discus tank, as it seem to be the only foreground plant the Discus don't attack.

I bet this is awesome advice. Unfortunately, I have planted dwarf hairgrass before and swore to myself as I was planting it that I would never plant it again.:D I mentioned patience not a strong suit, right?


Looks like a Radican Sword, same genus as the marbled queen. They are supposed to mee medium swords, but the onesI kept in a 24" high tank beg to differ. They reach the surfaced in a week.
echinodorus tenellus is a great option for a foreground as is lilaopsis and dwarf hairgrass.

Of course Ed13 is right!!! And, yes, those Radicans have only been in there a month or so....lots of growth! took your advice and planted lilaeopsis brasiliensis--or, Brazilian Microsword to us lay people.


I'm going with a ditto on this one. Right now I'm having a go with the lileopsis brasiliensis but as Ed has been stating in my thread and I am currently witnessing, I am having more of a vertical growth vs. the filling in of the substrate.

Keeping my fingers crossed that I won't have the same prob....



The fish seem to be taking the transition well. And their colors look much nicer with the white sand and lighter look of the tank :-) Did you notice any less peppering with the "MP/Marlboros?" !


They were a little po'd at me for a bit...why won't they MOVE when you are trying to redecorate??? Only fish I've ever seen you have to move out of the way....Their colors look so much brighter over the sand. I am loving it! Also, it is really neat at night b/c they cast a shadow over the white sand when they swim by!!! BTW, that baby amazon in front of the mopani is going to be yours when it grows a little, so get ready! The peppering on my "orange fish" :D went away really quickly after I ripped the old background down, so didn't notice a change with the sand.


I had one question how big are your discus?

I have not taken them out to measure, but my two largest are close to 5" SL and the smallest is a little over 3" SL.

Thank you everyone!!! Here are the latest pics, and I think I may be done for a bit....I moved the dw on right side around and planted microsword. Even though I say I'm done--keep the comments coming. Obviously your input has changed my tank immensely and I appreciate it! Oh, and yes they are snails....I like them! Though I don't like picking the babies off...

[Ed13]

I hope I am not killing everyone with all the posting....patience has never been a virtue for me!:D

I don't mind!


How funny I bought an non-aquatic plant. I actually thought they had it labeled wrong (which LFS are famous for) and I was buying cyperus helferi. Obviously, I am not much of a botanist!:o BTW, guys, I really need a botanical handbook for all the Latin!:D

Well, sometimes stores buy packages of plants and since they don't know what they are/need well..... I've seen worst, when I was doing maitanenece work I was called for an evaluation on a planted tank, set up by a so called "professional" and marine biologist too, we found only two aquatic plants, the rest were marsh and bog plants at best, even philodendrons were under water....:confused: :p

BTW, Cyperus helferi is unmistakeable;) , you'll know it when you see one. Its a very nice light green and is most likely going to cost between $10-$20





Wow! spent last night looking at this and was really impressed by some of them. It's like magic....But, also, IMO some of them are too overgrown--after all, my tank is about the discus first and foremost!



The best "planted discus" tank! It was designed with the wellfare of the discus as top priority and planted around that! Jeffrey Senske stated that Heiko Bleher was the one that told him what the discus need in a planted tank in oreder to thrive, hence the name "Heiko's lesson"
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi?&Scale=514&op=showcase&category=0&vol=3&id=141

[dragonlover]

The best "planted discus" tank! It was designed with the wellfare of the discus as top priority and planted around that! Jeffrey Senske stated that Heiko Bleher was the one that told him what the discus need in a planted tank in oreder to thrive, hence the name "Heiko's lesson"
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi?&Scale=514&op=showcase&category=0&vol=3&id=141

Wow, wow, wow, yeah, really puts my tank to shame!!! I love the BD's--all my company loves the way my cobalt looks against the green. In fact, when I brought my fish home my husband asked me why I didn't get them all cobalt! I think it is perfect for a show tank, but I couldn't walk away with just one variety when I had so many to choose from....

BTW, Ed, is this better now--did I plant the microsword where you had in mind???

[Ed13]

Ah, much better! Being picky, the pieces of wood might be a couple of inches too much to the sides, but it is a small tank so....if you move them move one first, examine it then the next

Is that anubia Frazeri I see in front of the left piece of wood? IF so this is one of those anubias that does well in rich substrate, it will grow fine tied to wood too, which by it looks like the rhyzome is completely burried. And this is more of a middle to background anubia, for what you seem to want there nana or coffefolia would have been better choices. Still Frazeri has a spot in the tank!

I like the crypts to the right, let them take over. They'll form a nice forrest there.
The lilaopsis is fine were it is, again let her take over the left side.
Allow the stem plants in the center to mature and fill out, then evaluate, I'm not to shure about them, but it all falls down to taste

I'm not really sure you have enough light for light demanding plants, which will explain why the dwarf hairgrass did not worked for you. Unfurtunately the lilaopsis won't fare much better. On the plus side it seems that you can add more light easily to this tank.

How about CO2?

[Ed13]

Yes the microsword looks fine there. I reckon that cyperus would look rather impressive in this tank Somewhere in the there!! But this is a very high light , high CO2 plant and doesn't like temps too high.

There is something missing in the middle between the two pieces of wood, but I can't quite put my finger to it! Maybe the distance from one another, maybe addiotional piecesor maybe the stem plants need to fill it in?!
Perhaps, waiting for the stem plants is the best option for now, the fish have been stressed enough for now!

[dragonlover]

Is that anubia Frazeri I see in front of the left piece of wood? IF so this is one of those anubias that does well in rich substrate, it will grow fine tied to wood too, which by it looks like the rhyzome is completely burried. And this is more of a middle to background anubia, for what you seem to want there nana or coffefolia would have been better choices. Still Frazeri has a spot in the tank!

I'm not really sure you have enough light for light demanding plants, which will explain why the dwarf hairgrass did not worked for you. Unfurtunately the lilaopsis won't fare much better.
How about CO2?

I don't know if it's anubia Frazeri or not, but if you think it is then I would bet you are right! I stuffed the rhizome under the mopani, so it's not buried at all, just the little tendril roots are...I have kept microsword under these lights and it did well before so hoping I will be okay...I think my prob with hairgrass is the planting---was trying to put it in gravel:o . Hence, me saying I will never plant it again.;)

When I first found a couple of sites on the web, I thought, "yeah, i will try CO2!!! Plants look great!!!!" Then, I set up a DIY CO2 set-up and was fiddling with this, fiddling with that....finally my husband said, "If it wasn't broke, why are you fixing it?" So....LOL....took it off and no more CO2!

I am pretty positive I will be pulling the stem plants once my water sprite takes off....just waiting....if you think what else I need don't hesitate....wonder where the anubias will end up?

[Ed13]

I don't know if it's anubia Frazeri or not, but if you think it is then I would bet you are right! I stuffed the rhizome under the mopani, so it's not buried at all, just the little tendril roots are...

HA, if I can give this world a piece of advcie is to never trust someone completely!!:D Especially me!!:confused: :D
It certainly dooesn't look like nana, if it is Frazeri is a good find, is not that common! Hopefully the wood is not damaging the rhyzome
Since you already have microsword, there is no need to look for other carpet plants, it will only make an interwind mess!!

You can certainly do a very beatiful tank without additional CO2. Remember that plants in our tanks with high light, CO2 and a bunch of nutrients are growing in an exagerated manner. However the lack of them will dictate the growth patterns.

[fishmama]

Don't tease me now girl...another "baby" for our household and my husband will kill me! Seriously though, that would be cool to have a baby amazon...good excuse to put up yet another tank! I really like the side shots of your tank. That was a great idea to see the sides...gives us a better idea dimensionally!

Lisa

[phidelt85]

Laura, I still like it. I think once it fills in it's gonna be what you're looking for in a planted tank. I do hope you fair better with the lileopsis than I currently am. I'll post some pics of mine once I get the background repainted. I must say that it is a royal PITA to scrape that black off.

I again would recommend some contrasting plants in there to break up all the green you have going on. Just my opinion though

[dragonlover]

I would like to take that advice and get some red plants, but around here all I can find is red ludwegia or teranthera. I like teranthera, but can't find any that's not already dissolving at the LFS...I know I should order online, but I'm kind of an ol' fashioned gal....:o

My hubby helped me with the background!! At first I wasn't sure if I wanted another one up at all, but Jack said I should definitely have one. I think I like it being blue...do you think it helped with a depth perception? I kinda think it did, in person.

[Ed13]

I would like to take that advice and get some red plants, but around here all I can find is red ludwegia or teranthera. I like teranthera, but can't find any that's not already dissolving at the LFS...I know I should order online, but I'm kind of an ol' fashioned gal....:o


I'm old fashioned too, we're alike except the gal part:p :D I don't like getting plants on line, too many scam artists. However I also dislike getting things from the LFS once it hits there tanks. Have them order it for you and check the day of arrival so that you are the first.
I've saved Althernathera stems before, but its easier said than done.

BTW, nothing wrong with those choices, both are very beautiful and relatively easy. I reckon both would look nice with what you have now. The althernathera might grow really slow without CO2 though!
The only other plant that I think would look really nice in this setup is Red Tiger lotus, 2-3 in the back with the leaves near the surface should look really nice!

The tank is looking really nice!

[phidelt85]

I would like to take that advice and get some red plants, but around here all I can find is red ludwegia or teranthera. I like teranthera, but can't find any that's not already dissolving at the LFS...I know I should order online, but I'm kind of an ol' fashioned gal....:o

My hubby helped me with the background!! At first I wasn't sure if I wanted another one up at all, but Jack said I should definitely have one. I think I like it being blue...do you think it helped with a depth perception? I kinda think it did, in person.

I like the background. Dramatic difference if you're asking me.

Check out this place (http://www.aquariumplants.com/Telanthera_Rosefolia_Alternanthera_reineckii_p/bp031.htm). I bought my plants from them and with the exception of the rotala indica it all came out looking good. I bought that telanthera roseafolia, and it's my favorite plant. The bottom of the leaves are a very bright pinkish red. Looks sweet. I'll definitely buy from them again

Jose

[dandestroy]

Nice, love the substrate change.

Now let it grow and it will look real nice in a couple of month.

[phidelt85]

Hey, Laura, where did you get your sand?

[phidelt85]

Ok, I found a sandblasting supply store that has #4 Silica sand aka sugar sand. Do you know if this will work? I also found another supply store that carries #3 glass blasting beads. I spoke to the lady there and she says that is actually what she uses in her tank.

[dragonlover]

I got lucky. I just bought pool sand at Lowe's...I know on the bag it did not list silica as the main component. It said "may contain some silica." I actually got all my info off the thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=55657. Then, did a vinegar test (but you should really let it sit in a bucket of water overnight to see what changes may occur), rinsed, rinsed, rinsed again, and plopped it in (not even gradually...just all at once). So, I do things all wrong...but I do them, at least...:o ....HTH...As an aside, the sand I used did not change my parameters.

[phidelt85]

I got lucky. I just bought pool sand at Lowe's...I know on the bag it did not list silica as the main component. It said "may contain some silica." I actually got all my info off the thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=55657. Then, did a vinegar test (but you should really let it sit in a bucket of water overnight to see what changes may occur), rinsed, rinsed, rinsed again, and plopped it in (not even gradually...just all at once). So, I do things all wrong...but I do them, at least...:o ....HTH...As an aside, the sand I used did not change my parameters.

At Lowe's, cool! I didn't think to check there. So is it as white in person as it appears in the pics? The lighter the better. I've got a charcoal substrate in the background and will probably leave that and just fill a "beach area" along the front and fading into the center of the tank.

[dragonlover]

Well, in the pics the flash is hitting the front center area, so that part is whiter in the picture, but, yes, it is very white! At first I was worried b/c when I was rinsing it, it turned a darker color. But after I got it in the tank w/ the lights on it looked as white as it did when dry.

[phidelt85]

Hey, Laura took your advice and got some PFS actually from Ace hardware, Changed it out and absolutely love it.

[diablocanine]

Ok, I found a sandblasting supply store that has #4 Silica sand aka sugar sand. Do you know if this will work? I also found another supply store that carries #3 glass blasting beads. I spoke to the lady there and she says that is actually what she uses in her tank.

A better substrate choice is soilmaster select.......DC

[dragonlover]

So, here is slow growth, ended up attaching the anubias and putting hairgrass behind the sprite. new fish are out of quarantene, so thought I would share.....yes, heater still vertical...lol...need to buy a submersible, I'm not positive mine is...

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u98/dragonlover_08/100_2772-1.jpg

[scolley]

Laura! That is one beautiful planted discus tank! Congratulations!

I think that if you let that giant hairgrass grow all the way to the left, covering that plumbing, and simultaneously filling in the left background - you'll have it nailed. And I'm sorry for not reading the whole thread, but is that sand covering substrate? If so, it's gonna mix the instant you pull something up. Hopefully it's only sand in front, with the substrate in back.

But even it you never change a thing, you have one lovely, visually well balanced tank there! You should be proud. Well done!

[fishmama]

Laura-

Looks wonderful! What a difference from the "old" scheme. I see the hatchets are now in as well as I can see one of the new cories! Can't wait to see this fill in...keep it posted!

Lisa

[Ed13]

WOW, what a difference!!!!! Very nice!!! It still has to mature a bit, and fill in the middle left and corner foregrounds(that is what you are shooting for right? plants in the front corners and a sand middle)

Steve has a great idea with the hairgrass, although the amazons might cover them, they should fill in the gaps nicely. I do like them were they are right now and the amazons to the left too.

Can't wait for future updates !!

[dragonlover]

Laura! That is one beautiful planted discus tank! Congratulations!

I think that if you let that giant hairgrass grow all the way to the left, covering that plumbing, and simultaneously filling in the left background - you'll have it nailed. And I'm sorry for not reading the whole thread, but is that sand covering substrate? If so, it's gonna mix the instant you pull something up. Hopefully it's only sand in front, with the substrate in back.

But even it you never change a thing, you have one lovely, visually well balanced tank there! You should be proud. Well done!

Wow! Coming from the "big kahuna" I am taking this as a huge compliment!!! Can't wait to see pics of your new project! And no, I don't have any other "plant friendly" substrate, just sand....


Laura-

Looks wonderful! What a difference from the "old" scheme. I see the hatchets are now in as well as I can see one of the new cories! Can't wait to see this fill in...keep it posted!

Lisa

Yeah, I still am very worried about the poor schwartzii corys....I am still so torn about what to do....but they are taking the temp for now....


WOW, what a difference!!!!! Very nice!!! It still has to mature a bit, and fill in the middle left and corner foregrounds(that is what you are shooting for right? plants in the front corners and a sand middle)

Steve has a great idea with the hairgrass, although the amazons might cover them, they should fill in the gaps nicely. I do like them were they are right now and the amazons to the left too.

Can't wait for future updates !!

Thank you! Yes, I cannot wait for the wendtii to fill in again, and (though I have to replant some every single day due to the corys) the microsword is looking good....that's what I was hoping for with the hairgrass...to cover some of the "plumbing". I should have bought another plant, but was leery because of my limited success with hairgrass.....wish me luck!:)

[pinkertd]

Wow Laura, you did one heck of a do-over!! It's gorgeous, nice landscaping!!