I'm sure everyone has felt like this.

[Tropical Haven]

Besides the obvious strains, why can't we call certain strains by one name. There must be 4 or 5 different names for discus that are the same. You can look at different breeders websites and there are some discus that you can tell are exactly the same but you see 3 to 5 different names for them.
It's going to get to the point years down the road that people are going to buy discus and aren't going to be sure what they are actually called because that person has seen the same discus at other places called something totally different. Can we make this great hooby of ours any more confusing when it shouldn't be?
Maybe it's just me but I am sure that a lot of other people must feel the same way. I am sure that I am not the only one who has noticed this over the years.

[Elite Aquaria]

Scott,

I agree with you. The problem is many people are in the hobby to make a buck and marketing your product by using different names is what helps them get an edge over their competition.

Dan

[Tropical Haven]

Dan,
I agree with you 100% but this is going to cause a cluster of multiple names for each discus strain which is going to cause mass confusion down the road. Well I guess all we can do is roll with the flow and see what the future brings. :D

[pcsb23]

Don't get me started ;) Pushing against an open door here Scott!

[jeep]

One thread says anyone can name their fish anything they want and the next says the names should be standardized, lol... :D

I happen to agree with this thread ;)

[swinters66]

I cant remember any of these strains...I just say "my blue discus" or my "pretty orange discus". :p I need to keep some things simple around this circus of a house :laugh:

[steve.ryall]

Don't get me started ;) Pushing against an open door here Scott!


So what exactly are your views on this then Paul?? 'pray do tell' :D :D


I'm runnin real fast now!!!!! bye:p

[Elcid]

Just Add "Pigeon" to the end of every name you see and ull be mostly right :)

take care,
Sandeep

[AADiscus]

I fill the same way with the names. :D

[brewmaster15]

I'm not much on these fancy smanzy names either, and never have been...

That said...it does bring up an interesting question or two... Playing the devils advocate here...

Who had the right to name a red turq a red turq in the first place? Who decides what a common strain is...or for that matter what a real strain is? I have yet to see any definition of what a true strain of discus is... does it breed 50% true, 60% , 90% or 100% true when bred to its siblings? or others that bear its name? I have seen many people's ideas on what a true strain is, but they are all over the place and definetly not a standard used by us all.

The standard used today is something like this... A breeder can call their fry anything they like....hopefully thats used with some discretion and applied to unique and real strains.

One thing I think that has improved is more sharing of the genetic background..though I am sure much less is said than unsaid.... I note in particular the large numbers of "intermediates" being sold.

I doubt that the name_game will ever end , although I think it can have some rules placed on it...but questions like the ones I posted here will need to be answered first and agreed on by discus enthusiasts...and thats not likely to happen.


-al

[Ed13]

I'm not much on these fancy smanzy names either, and never have been...

That said...it does bring up an interesting question or two... Playing the devils advocate here...

Who had the right to name a red turq a red turq in the first place? Who decides what a common strain is...or for that matter what a real strain is? I have yet to see any definition of what a true strain of discus is... does it breed 50% true, 60% , 90% or 100% true when bred to its siblings? or others that bear its name? I have seen many people's ideas on what a true strain is, but they are all over the place and definetly not a standard used by us all.

The standard used today is something like this... A breeder can call their fry anything they like....hopefully thats used with some discretion and applied to unique and real strains.

One thing I think that has improved is more sharing of the genetic background..though I am sure much less is said than unsaid.... I note in particular the large numbers of "intermediates" being sold.

I doubt that the name_game will ever end , although I think it can have some rules placed on it...but questions like the ones I posted here will need to be answered first and agreed on by discus enthusiasts...and thats not likely to happen.


-al
I'm with Al, this explains fairly well my views!

I do sometimes feel frustrated with names, but like Al said who gets to call them, well who bred them?:alien: ;) :) When that farm in Thailand created the Pidgeon Blood, should the breeder have asked the world what it should be called?

As long as the genetic background is shared, I don't see no harm, unless their is intent to miss lead! Stating a strain has no PB in them while the fish is heavily peppered for example!
Of course its easier said than done, that small breeder whos income relies solely on fish, won't part ways with the info and create more competitors. After all its not like a discus patent can be issued!! LOL

Again Al is right, what defines a strain? Maybe, categories is the best we can do like in shows: Pigeon blood, solid turquoise, striated turquoise, red turquoise snakeskin, red spotted, wild(and the strain following) etc

[Tropical Haven]

Didn't want to open a can of worms here but I thought this was a legitamate gripe to bring up. :D

[brewmaster15]

Hi Scott,


Didn't want to open a can of worms here but I thought this was a legitamate gripe to bring up. Its definetly a legit Gripe Scott and one that been voiced many times by many hobbyists... Its really frustrating.


I would'nt look at it as opening a can of worms.. more like talking about an area that definetly needs some serious talking about.:)


-al

[Tropical Haven]

Al,
I agree 100% with that, thats why bringing it up I thought would shed some light on this matter.

[dragonlover]

Yes, as a new person to discus all these names get really confusing. And it does seem that no one will go near calling their fish a pigeon anything! I am too new to the hobby to know why these fish aren't liked as well as others (just according to some of the posts I've read on this site).

For other fish, it seems regions of the country have different common names for them, but at least they are referenceable by a Latin name. I used to have to carry around a tropical fish book with pictures & Latin names just to navigate the local LFS....:D Actually, it still comes in handy....

It would be neat to see a chart of discus....show a picture, then everyone can list all the "names" they've heard....Hmmm, maybe there could be a vote....lol...

[roclement]

You want madness...just look at Discus posters from Asia from 2-3 years ago, try to see how many of those strains have common names with todays fish! Forget about it!
Try the Aqualog books...they are great reference for any other fish species...look at the Discus one...forget about it!

Even the scientific names are a mess!!! No one even knows how many real strains and variations there are!!!

I will start naming my strains myself!!!! At least I know what they mean...like this is a "superredmixedwithatblueoneinthecornerpigeonblood"! Or "mixedbaggrabfromlfsculls"...and my personal favorite..."rodssupereruptionscarletpigeonheckelmixbychance"...gradeAAAA!

: )

Where are the NADA folks to sort this mess out!

Have a great day everyone!

Rod

[CraigC]

I agree this name thing is crazy, and whats up with all the AAA, AAAA+ stuf. isn't one A already the best grade. If you are going to call one fish an AAA+ then what really is your grade A anyways. Is your grade A really a Grade C or less. This is crazy.

Craig

[tdr1919]

I cant remember any of these strains...I just say "my blue discus" or my "pretty orange discus". :p I need to keep some things simple around this circus of a house :laugh:

I'm with Stephanie, There are Cobalt, Blue, Turquois, you know the basic,
meat & potato names, Discus names are getting like micro-brewery names!

-Tom

[Darren's Discus]

I will start naming my strains myself!!!! At least I know what they mean...like this is a "superredmixedwithatblueoneinthecornerpigeonblood"! Or "mixedbaggrabfromlfsculls"...and my personal favorite..."rodssupereruptionscarletpigeonheckelmixbychance"...gradeAAAA!


Rod[/QUOTE]

Hey rod i will take a dozen of the last ones ! lol


cheers

[alxjss]

Yeah, like me. I asked what kind of fish Cary has and he came out w/BD's WD's Turks, and something else. I don't even no what that is. Well, i do now but, not then and it was a mystery. Can' t there just be a common name like cory cats, bnp's etc.... to make it easier for us New people?

[roclement]

Yeah, like me. I asked what kind of fish Cary has and he came out w/BD's WD's Turks, and something else. I don't even no what that is. Well, i do now but, not then and it was a mystery. Can' t there just be a common name like cory cats, bnp's etc.... to make it easier for us New people?

There is...Discus...for most people that is enough...not for us! We need something to make us feel special! Another hybrid fish like Flowerhorn was just a Flowerhorn for a long time...now even it has multiple names!

If we can't even agree with the scientific classification for wild strains...how can we clasiffy hybrids?

Rod

[brewmaster15]

As in all things..a little education goes a long way...I think most of us in this a bit of time can see thru the BS in the name-game.... I feel sorry for novices trying to figure it all out... But then again... Thats where forums like this one come into play.


The basic problem is this... discus genetics are so complex and fluid that we do need a way to describe all the different forms out there and their variations... names are a convenient way to do it, unfortunately we have no real guidelines in it... and when names are used as a marketing ploy... it just complicates a big mess...

lets face it..... Super red melon has more selling power than Red mellon. I mean obviously if its super its got to be better than just a plain old red mellon:bandana::bandana::bandana::bandana::rolleye s2::rolleyes2:

and all the other "descriptive" adjectives attached to the fish make it worse..

We could stay with the "basic names" but even these are not really founded in anything except the whim of the breeder of bygone mystical times....so at what point do you add a new "basic name" to the list? and who choses what the "real" basic names are?

hypothetical.. I cross a wild blue X a red turq.. I call my first few generations ...wild blue X red turq F1,wild blue X a red turq F2, etc
Thats a mouthful!!! but at some point after many generations the cross takes on a consistent pattern and its not anything like its parents... technically do I have a new strain????..its not a wild blue...its not a red turq...

what is it? and who decides what to call this new "strain"? If I did all the work, seems I should be able to name it as is done in most other breeding areas.... I am particularly fond of botanical names...

so maybe discus should follow a similar pattern... genus, species, variation (named by breeder)...

Symphysodon aequifasciata variety Brewmaster15icus?:)

Yeah like discus breeders around the world will come together on this one.:rolleyes2:The way I see it...we are stuck with the system we have:(

-al

[Ed13]

hypothetical.. I cross a wild blue X a red turq.. I call my first few generations ...wild blue X red turq F1,wild blue X a red turq F2, etc
Thats a mouthful!!! but at some point after many generations the cross takes on a consistent pattern and its not anything like its parents... technically do I have a new strain????..its not a wild blue...its not a red turq...

what is it? and who decides what to call this new "strain"? If I did all the work, seems I should be able to name it as is done in most other breeding areas....


That's exactly what I think, you went through the trouble of creating it you name it, you discovered a new wild or identified it, the name should reflect it


so maybe discus should follow a similar pattern... genus, species, variation (named by breeder)...Categories grouping some instead of individual strains? at least the newcomer would get an idea of what it is



Symphysodon aequifasciata variety Brewmaster15icus?:)


I'll take 8 of the Super Als aka Symphysodon aequifasciata v Brewmaster15icus

Joking aside, didn't you have some brown cross snakeskins? hmmm

[CraigC]

Thanks for your info Al it makes a lot of sence.

Craig:thumbsup: