recommendations?

[jfoster38122]

Hi all I think I am about ready to start the discus tank. I want to do live plants.
Should I go high tech or not? I have 2 x 250 watt halide and 300 watts of vho I can use, and a 5 lb co2 tank. I could go with a 10 lb tank though. What substrate should I use. I also want to do a sand bed. I don't think I will need a substrate heater.

Thanx

Jerry

[lillou]

Jerry

What size tank are you setting up?
That seems like an awful lot of light.
MH bulbs are good for a 2'X2' area.

The light requirement is dependent on tank size and also influences high tech/low tech.

CO2 is based on lighting as well as fertilizer levels.

which filter will you be using?
which plants are you looking to put in the tank?

[Paula B]

Ah. If only it were that simple. Tens of thousands of pages are available online discussing the topic. I am going to try to keep it simple and tell you what I personally think or have experienced. Take it with a grain of salt as I am sure YMMV and many people will disagree with me. I am going to try to skim the surface a little and stay focused on your specific questions.

I think high tech is your only option with that much light- if you want to use 250W MH bulbs. And it seems you have all the equipment already, so why not? Would you be happy with only low tech plant species? Personally, high tech or low, I don't think the maintenance needed changes or the frequency of problems you may encounter. I've had as many algae outbreaks in my low tech tanks as in my high. I also like having more flexibility in my high tech tanks- to raise or lower wattage and photo period, mess with fertilizer regimes and wider range of plant species. I like knowing I can grow anything. In addition, even the plant species that will grow in low light and without CO2 have grown bigger, healthier and more lush than in the low tech.

What size tank are you taking about? You may also be restricted by the layout of your existing lights, if you can modify it, or need to modify it based on the size of the tank. If there are no limitations to your lighting layout, then it is just personal preference to use it all or not. But if you're going to use it all, you will need to add CO2 and ferts.

For the CO2 tank, if filling the tanks will be a hassle, then you can upgrade to a 10lb. The only difference is how often you refill them. I have a 10lb on a 125 and I refill it every 6 months or so. The fill station is really close to my house and its inexpensive, so I wouldn't mind using a 5lb and going more often. If I had to drive 30 miles out of may way- it might be a different story.

I agree that the substrate heater is not necessary.

There is a ton of debate over substrates- whole sub forums on APC and the plantedtank.net you can check out for all the pros and cons and debates. I am not going to even try to cover it all here, but I will tell you what I would do personally. I would use soilmaster select for the planted areas (look up the lesco web site for local retailers) and US silica Mystic white pool filter sand for my foreground. I would not add any additional nutrients to the substrate with fertilizer sticks or ADA powersand, or anything else. You can always shove in some fertilizer sticks later if you feel your plants need it, but if you over do it when you start you can't take them back out.


If you do sand foreground, you'll need to come up with something to keep the two different substrates separated long term so you don't end up with a mess. Also be aware that fish poop and other detritus is really obvious on a bed of bright white sand so choose carefully.

Hope that was helpful.

[svdfinally]

I have to agree with Paula on the fact that you have the equip for a high tech tank so you might as well go that route. I like substrate heaters but don't think that they are necessary. The only question I have is how deep and big is the tank? 250W halides are pretty intense.

[jfoster38122]

Sorry folks I thought I put the tank size in the post. It's a standard 125 gallon. As far as the co2 tank goes, it's not really out of the way to get it filled and cost about 11.00. I have two brand new Penguin 300b filters that are rated for a 75 gallon tank. I know the ratings are probably over rated and that's why I stuck 2 of them on there. I may add a canister filter later on but not right now. I was looking at the Eco Complete, or maybe something else. I would like to be able to get something local here in Memphis to use and save on shipping. I am a FedEx employee so I can get a discount on shipping. I looked last night at Lowe's for the Shultz aquatic soil but didn't see any. I may use Flourite and then put sand on top, but I know the sand will probably sink down underneath the Flourite. As far as plants go, I am looking for the easier ones to keep and am still reading to find out what would be good.

Jerry

[svdfinally]

I would use the VHOs and leave off the MH. My reef tank which is also 125 only has (3) 175w MHs on it with some PCs. My 210 which is 29in high and I still only used 175w MH due to the depth. If you want easy to grow plants you won't need the MHs. This is just my opinion which there are many out there.

[Ed13]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=53854
read this thread, notice how Scolley, only used nutrient rich gravel where it was needed. Put the flourite if you want in the back(in the design you want) use rocks and/or wood to sort of hold the gravel, then you pour the sand.
The easiest way to keep it from mixing is prob to use a cardboard or other divider WHILE setting it up gravel back sand upfront then remove the cardboard. The wood and rock serves dual purpose as it would hold the gravel back and hide the line were the two substrates mix.

As far as plants, amazons, anubias, ferns, saggitaria are the absolute easiest. Followed by hygrophilas, rotalas, some crypts and many of the common stems. With enough light CO2 and nutrients many plants arriving healthy are easy

For lights, you have many options with what you have now, it'll depend on the plants and your liking.
-You could use just the 250w halides, hopefully they are in a good reflector that will spread the light around Lumenarcs??? Anyway its for plants you can always ste them up higher that will cover the whole tank with usable light

-Second option run the VHO only
-Third option is to run the VHO as main lights and use the MH to create a noon effect.In this case the halides will run for 2-4hrs

-You could always run the halides for the noon effect of four hrs and change the VHO for some NO flourescents. 4-6 bulbs of either t-8 or t-12 will give you an option to play with the look of the tank since there are not too many plant bulbs with VHO

I like the fourth option. What ballast are the VHO? you could prob use it and not need new ones!
Either way you choose the MH will prob run less than 6-8 hours and of course if you use the MH plus the VHO it will be Super high tech and a 10 lb will last weeks not moths plus nutrients plus a whole lot of prunning, plus any little imbalance will create algae etc, etc

This is my top 2 all time fav discus tank
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2004.cgi?&op=showcase&category=0&vol=3&id=141
The deceiving simplicity is what has always captivated me

[lillou]

Is your 125 4' or 6' long?

Filtration is good. I would rather have the canister but thats just me. You will off gas a little more CO2 than with the canister.

If you want to use all that light you definitely need to go high tech.
You didn't mention what the light output was for the bulbs. 6700K/10000K etc
I would personally leave the MH's off and run the VHO's. The MH's will give you the shimmer effect though which a lot of people like.

You have the CO2 already so thats good. I would see if you could swap to a bigger cylinder (less runs to get it refilled)

Fertilizers will be needed at this light level. Do a search here for estimative index.

With the amount of light you will be running you can put basically any plant you want in this setup and it will grow like a weed with the addition of CO2 and the Ferts.


What do you have locally for substrate? Eco is good. I have the sand in front on my tank too. I like the way it looks. Eco looks nice because of the contrast
with the sand. Check the substrate section here you will get a better idea of what people like.

[jfoster38122]

The halides are 250 watts each of 10 XM brand bulbs. The VHO ballasts came from www.hellolights.com and will run NO,HO,VHO bulbs so I can overdrive normal output bulbs to near VHO leavels. I do like the shimmer effect the halides provide.

Jerry