Alk

[russell]

Hi All
Manged to get my Ph down 6.0 with phosphoric acid ( good Stuff) the gh stays at 6 which is ok with me BUT the Kh has dropped to 1 yes 1 how do I increase the Kh without changing the other factors? Good job the Tefe's like it low but this is silly.

[Graham]

You don't, remember what KH is and what it does...The carbonate hardness buffers the pH. You've taken away the buffers by using an acid to allowed the pH to drop

You can't have the best of both worlds:)

G

[russell]

O.K so whats the solution. either I have a low Kh and Ph or let my Ph rise to increase the alk? I have wild tefe's and want to maintain the perams they arrived in ( there naturate conditions) would a Ph of 7 be acceptable??
Its a bit of help I'm after.

[Graham]

I would think that you would want the low pH................................The only reason to have a higher KH is to buffer the pH, to prevent a possible pH crash. Considering the amount of water changes that are done, the chances of a crash are slim...There are new sources of KH coming in daily..... the fish would probably love a pH of 5.0

[poconogal]

I have that kind of water from my well. High PH, 8.2 in the winter, 7.8 in the summer, but low KH and GH, 5 in winter, 4 in summer. The lowest I can get my PH down to without dropping my KH too low is 7.6, using peat, which puts both the DKH and DGH at 3. I've been this route, trying to find out if there was any way to lower PH without affecting KH, but there isn't! My tank is now 7.8, with DKH of 4. Of course I'm not keeping wilds, though.

Maybe if you didn't bring your PH down so low, but instead brought it to 6.4-6.5, your KH should be higher than 1 and you will have your buffering ability back. I think the Tefe's would be fine at 6.4-6.5.

Years ago I had wild caught greens that I kept at 6.8, soft water. They were perfectly fine at that PH.

[AmberC]

Just watch that your pH doesn't start to swing. In my old house, my tap water was pH 6.8ppm and KH 1. (straight from the tap!) and I had a lot of water issues until I started doing daily 50% + water changes.


Amber

[russell]

Hi All

O.K lets put it this way. I have 4 adult 7" Wild Tefe's that came straight from the source i.e wilds (F's) from Brazil. these are use to low Kh & Gh with a Ph of about 5.5 -6 I assume!!!!!.
What are the best perams in this case to keep them, in regards to the same sort of enviroment they been adapted to. I know most Discus can be acclimateised to differing conditions but this defeats the object. HOW LOW is safe as far as KH goes. I have no prob increasing the GH its just Ph & Alk

[pcsb23]

Russell,

First off its not really practical to try and exactly simulate their natural environment, typically they come from water wth a ph under 6 and a TDS in the 3 to 10 range! Now with the amount of water that flows through there is no real issue in the amazon basin, but in your tank you can't possibly hope to simulate that amount of water to change!

If you've got the water down to a ph of 6 then thats good, have you made sure its stable at 6? Phosphoric acid isn't the strongest acid, but if you are getting a Kh of 1 then it probably is. Are you using RO water at all? if not that could be an option, you would most likely have to re-mineralise a little, but you may save on messing with acids and the like.

My advice is not to get too hung up on achieving a specific ph, its btter to keep the water clean and the params as stable as possible, I would howver still encourage you to keep the water acid. My wilds seem to do well in a ph around 6.5.

btw happy birthday :D

hth,

[russell]

Hi Paul
Thanks , Yes I am using RO. The only prob over here is the carbonate hardness. the ph out of RO is low at 4, but after 24 hours storage/airating & heating it settles at 8.
Will settle for a Ph of 6.5 and see how the Kh settles down. I would like it about 3, I used Ph down to start with then found out that this is Sulphuric Acid which raised the TDS!!! and "Fred" on DPH recomended Phosphoric which I found more stable.

[russell]

Hi Paul thanks for advise.
My Ph is 6.5 Steady, The alk is 1 to 2 - gh is 6 are these levels safe or can low Kh be harmful?

I use RO at a 80/20 mix but the Ph settles at 8 overnight in the storage hence having to use Phosphoric to get it down, but in doing so it lowes the Kh.To get a Ph of 6.5 my Kh is 1-2

[Tropical Haven]

By using the acid keep a careful eye on it at all times because is will have a rebound effect and it will shoot back up in a hurry. I would play with the mixture of RO and tap water because you should be able to get it 6.5 without a problem by increasing the amount of RO to tap water mix. This will keep your tank a lot more stable at the PH range you want.

[pcsb23]

Hi Paul thanks for advise.
My Ph is 6.5 Steady, The alk is 1 to 2 - gh is 6 are these levels safe or can low Kh be harmful?

These are perfectly safe, just keep up with w/c and all should be well.

[russell]

Hi all Thanks for your advice

There is one problem I can't seem to figure out. Even if I use 90/20 mix Ro to Tap the Ph stableises at 8 overnight after heating & airating.. it must just be the hardness, so to bring it down I have to use something. Peat is not much good hence the Phosphoric, even though I am not keen on it. Looks like I am doomed to hard water!!!!!
There has to be a better way. Perhaps I should think again about Wilds!!!

[pcsb23]

if you are happy to be a water warrior (I am) and get ph 6.5 with a 80/20 split and phosphoric I say carry on and enjoy the wilds. If the ph is relatively stable you have no worries. I'd never willingly give up wilds. jmo.