Beautiful fish merged

[Desert Diamond Discus]

I just wanted to post these pics of my experience today and get some feedback. all comments welcomed.
Oscar

[Elcid]

Wow Oscar:

It's happenned to me too! and ur right that is/was a beautiful discus! That's why I never buy discus larger than 2" anymore!

HTH
Sandeep

[Desert Diamond Discus]

I just see what i want and buy it but your so right its taking a bigger risk, i just wish that people would conduct themselves in a more professional and buisness like manner when dealling with such issues.

Oscar

[Darren's Discus]

Oscar,
sorry about your loss,it certainly was a beautie !

[Polar_Bear]

Oscar,
I'm confused, was the fish shipped in a styrofoam box, or not? I can see that the bag leaked, was it at least double bagged? Unfortunately these things do happen, are you getting a replacement from the shipper? If so, I would demand that they pay the shipping costs for the replacement. It also looks like you got more than the one fish, are the others OK?

[poconogal]

I just wanted to post these pics of my experience today and get some feedback. all comments welcomed.
Oscar
A friend of mine received an 8 inch WB with no water left in its bag. It looked dead and she thought it was dead, but she immediately put the Discus in her QT tank anyway. It took several minutes, but the Discus finally began breathing. By the next day it was partially upright and by the day after that it had righted itself and began swimming. Did you try putting this Discus into water at all? Certainly was beautiful - sorry...

[Ed13]

In the first pic it doesn't even look dead!! You are right it looked like a beautiful discus. Hope everything works out for you.

[Jason]

can you give us more info Oscar? my assessment of just the pictures is a really, really bad packing job. But thats just from the pictures. It maybe a good job with alot of materials not in the pic, I don't know.

maybe move the thread to the livestock and product review section.

[kaceyo]

I also thought it looked alive untill I saw the other photo's. What a waste oof a beautiful discus. I take it from your comment about unproffesional conduct you've had problems getting the seller to take responsibility?

Kacey

[tpl*co]

From the first picture it looks alive too. Definitely bad packaging, but even with good packaging a big discus can puncture through a bag. This is why I always shy away from shipping live fish :(.

Tina

[Desert Diamond Discus]

a bit more info on this guys, the packing job was really not bad the problem lie int he bags this gentleman used. look and i know its hard to tell but look at the last pic= the bags he used had seems on the sides- yes i know unheard of, but yes seems that totally ripped during shipping and we are talking about 5 out of the the 6 bags had rips that extended from the bottom to more than half was up the bag, the other bag which was the inner most bag had a rip on the seem that extended from the bottom to about 1-2 inches up and there you have it. if you look at the last pic i left all the paper in between the bags in place so the shipper would know i did not temper with the bag but he still states i havent proven anything to him and has not and will not reimburse, credit or replace this fish. According to him everyone lies but him and only he can be honest. I am disappointed beyond belief with this guy ive tried all that he has asked of me with the exception of cutting the fishs tail off and taking another pic, i should have kept this fish but i didnt- see i had him shipped to my clinic a medical clinic so that i could atten to him immediately uppon arrival to ensure the best outcomes but while i was emailling the pics i asked my secretary to throw him in the dumpster in the alley behind my clinic then and hour later the shippers new request wast to cut the taill off and resend pics- now i admit i should have kept the fish but i thought i had enough with all the pics to make my point i was wrong... see lately i have been dealling with kenny and mario and they are totally different than this guy- i bet if i showed up to this guys front door with this fish dead in my hand he would have another excuse not to cover it, and really to me this is all just bad buisness.

Oscar



Forgott to mention this- all of us have had discus die and if they are still wet they still look beautiful- so how can you ever tell a fish is dead from a pic anyway? i remember looking in a trashcan many times and saying ****!!!! that was a beautiful fish

[tpl*co]

Wait a minute, now that you mention it, one of the bags in the picture says "Summer at Safeway" on it? He shipped them in produce bags from a grocery store??? Those things do not hold water (they barely hold produce without ripping :(). What he did is positively criminal and inhumane :(

Tina

[Greg Richardson]

Wait a minute, now that you mention it, one of the bags in the picture says "Summer at Safeway" on it?

That is the advertising paper showing through the bag I think.

But..... he could have got his bags from Safeway who knows.
Bags with a seam. Isn't that setting yourself up for trouble?
Logic says it is.

[Tropical Haven]

That is really horrible what happened to you. I would like to know who you purchased this from not for the sake of trash talking someone, but to keep other people aware of them so they don't make a mistake buying fish from them either.

[tpl*co]

That is the advertising paper showing through the bag I think.

But..... he could have got his bags from Safeway who knows.
Bags with a seam. Isn't that setting yourself up for trouble?
Logic says it is.

No, look at the last picture closely it says: "Baby Salad Blends" on the bag. He reused a produce bag :(

OK, looked at the fish bags we sell for the club and there are no side seems, I looked at a bread bag and it does have seams.

Tina

[Desert Diamond Discus]

Produce bread bags, i dont know all i do know is that all of the six bags used ripped onthat seem and this shipper is not aknowledging the facts, he thinks im a lier who just wants to screw him, you know this guy is well known and has done right by many people but hes not doing right by me.. when i spoke to him he acts like i havent proven a thing and i heard from a source that once spoke to him that he said he didnt care about people on the forums since he already had his fixed clientale. I told him its a lack of bieng able to man up, he didn mention his lawyers already but backed up when i told him i have a team of them of which my brother a harvard law graduate and ex congressman adviser is the lead. i dont expect him to do right by this and i really feel like giving him hell but one of us has to be a man and not a little ***** so ill let him play the ***** and i will man up.
Oscar

[Kindredspirit]

No, look at the last picture closely it says: "Baby Salad Blends" on the bag. He reused a produce bag :(



Tina



I hate to say it Oscar, but I think that Tina is correct:( I could barely look at the pictures ~ I am so sorry this happened to you ~

Pay backs' a ***** ~ you get what you give and some get "it" in spades:) Now you are dealing with two of the best who always go above and beyond the call of duty ~ Kenny and Mario are in a completely different class ~

Marie ~ :balloon:

[bikhu]

Oscar,
This is so bad. I am very sorry. Besides the bad business this was inhumane. Someone like this should not be allowed to deal with living creatures.
I am sorry that you are going through this hassle.
peter
PS I am sending you a pm

[Greg Richardson]

Tina. Are you using a tool to blow up the picture to read that?
My eyes not as good any more? LOL!
I have searched for the letters and can not see it on the bag.

In the big picture though.........
Doesn't matter if they are produce bags or not in the long run.
Any bags with seams you are setting yourself up for failure.

Even though this guy has a fixed client base I sure wish he was exposed.
That is an excuse he is using. Oldest trick in the book.
An arrogant statement.
He deserves to be exposed.

[Greg Richardson]

delete

[tpl*co]

Tina. Are you using a tool to blow up the picture to read that?
My eyes not as good any more? LOL!
I have searched for the letters and can not see it on the bag.



LOL, no just looking at the normal picture. Did look at it on my computer, and it may be showing through the bag from the paper add. Here's the picture with the words circled. I've never seen fish bags with seams though.

Tina

[Greg Richardson]

Tina. Yep. Bottom line is there is no crying in baseball nor seams in shipping bags!!!

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

I have seen a few LFS around my area use bags similar to these. They are not designed to hold water, only light bulk items. Reason why they use them is because they are really cheap and can be found locally. When you compare $25 for a case of 1,000 of those, and $65+ for a case of 1,000 normal bags...that difference can mean a lot to some businesses. Regardless, they shouldnt ever be used to ship fish.

-Ryan
Orlando Discus

[Ed13]

I keep looking back at the pics and if I thought the fish looked alive in the first pick maybe he did too, prob why he asked you to clip the tail. Not trying to defend him, he used the wrong equipment and since this caused the death he should be responsible, but it may explain his attitude and disbeleive. NO fish transport bag is designed or manufactured with side seams

Out him, the public needs to know who he is and how he preffers to do business, or if he steps up and takes responsibility!

[brewmaster15]

Oscar,
Sorry to hear this bad experience.... we have a section of the forum for livestock reviews
http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?f=106

Its something new here since the old days .... and its something you should consider... share your experience there.. positives or negative first hand experiences are encouraged.

additionally if that person is a member here.... negative i-trader feedback should be given.

if not, I'd like to know who this seller is that doesn't care of the forum members...so please drop me a pM with that info.

take care,
al

[Desert Diamond Discus]

I just want to thank every one for their input on this issue and if this seller does not do right i will out his crack. I want to give him the opportunity to come to his senses - so far his senseless.
Oscar

[Greg Richardson]

Oscar. Over the years I've learned the hard way some stories can have different sides to them. Sometimes I have jumped to conclusions before putting myself in the other sides shoes.

Once both sides try to see things through the others eyes sometimes things make more sense.

Some thoughts...............

Let's look at it from the sellers view.

The bags...........
If he has a fixed client base and has been using those types of bags with success over time maybe it's people like me who is wrong for saying no way?

Unfortunately I have found sometimes what makes perfectly good sense to me doesn't always equal the end result if one has had success doing something different then what I think is right.

Looking at this through the sellers eyes...........

Being in business for myself over time you'll eventually run into someone trying to take advantage of you.
No matter what business you are in it happens.
So over time one enacts polices to protect ones self or one finds them self out of business.

If you are like me you want to believe the best about people.
It is really hard sometimes when you like someone to still say no this is the way it is. I have a policy and you must follow it because to start judging one person to the next it turns into a mess as others may find out the seller did it different for another party and boom a can of worms is opened!

So when seller says cut off tail and send it back you are naturally offended if you are an honest man. Who wouldn't be? Natural human trait. Nothing wrong with that.

Yet, in the sellers shoes if one doesn't have a policy they stick to they will eventually not only be burned, but cause more problems in the future for themselves no matter how fair they try to be.

From sellers view I imagine he would think you could have went back to the dumpster. Found the fish, cut off the tail and sent it to him.
Otherwise he is taking you at your word and in this type of business one can't afford to do that.

Of course when tempers heat up as both parties think they are right, words are said which hurts normal common sense thought process of both parties involved.

I hope this makes sense to you and gives you something to think about.

[Desert Diamond Discus]

Greg,
It makes perfect sense to me and believe me i have put myself in the sellers shoes and i do think that people try and take advantage of the situation at times and then i think about it this way- in the last 3-4 months i have purchased 30 fish all with the exception of five have been from 6-8 inches and have ranged between 150.00 - 300.00 dollars, if i had this kind of client i would keep them happy. Now i know he doesnt know this about me but he is the kind of guy that does background check--- im sure of this and i have my reasons for believing this. I am like you i give the benefit of the doubt before i jump to conclusions and find an out any way and for any reason at all. I mean when the guy states that he cant believe me about the bags blowing out like they did he is looking for an out- i kept those bags and im going to ship them back to him so he can see for himself and maybe then he can see that there is no possible way for this fish to have survived without water, i mean look at the pics the paper between the bags is still intact and the rip went right through all the bags and the paper-- i mean its a perfect rip no jagged edges nothing.

I own a medical clinic and get all kinds of people in here some sane and others questionable and they all get treated with respect and i defenately cant afford to call them liars and would not do so for any reason-- thats just how i was brought up, now if i have more than ample reason i will choose to deal with a liar in still a respectable manner and find a way to keep all parties happy one way or another but never would i just say im right your wrong and you havent proven anything to me at all. I know its a bit different but if you were on my end youd see how similar things really are, people whether they are buying a car or a procedure still want to be treated like honest people.

Oscar

[Greg Richardson]

Oscar. I hope you guys can work it out.

[steve.ryall]

Reading all this, would want me to name and shame. Not politically correct, but someone who has a blatent disrespect for beautiful living creatures and members of this and other forums needs a wake-up call IMO

Steve

[Fern]

I agree that before you make a purchase that the BUYER understands and accept the SELLERS terms of conditions for any DOA's regardless of the how, why and the should have.

Get past the bags, the fish was DOA right.

So now the question is what does the seller requires from the buyer? and keep in mind you must be cool about this.

And the buyer maybe somewhat worry, pessimistic and who knows how the SELLER may interprets this.

So, I feel that you should have waited to get a final response before putting this on the forum, my opinion.

Threats do not help a sitution whether you are right or wrong. I think it makes the SELLER feel you better get your way or he is hostage to your demand and that is not a good possition to be in. The SELLER may make the wrong choice put in this position I think.

And final, if unhappy with the outcome, you have every right to rate or share your experience about this SELLER. Your bad experience will make us more aware and a smarter Discus consumer.

Hope to have touched both sides diplomatically

[Elcid]

Hey Guyz:

I have an interesting question for you guyz? Has anyone received full and prompt refund on a DOA discus?

thanks,
Sandeep

[Fern]

I think I know the source, and I have compared the very first picture which everyone thought to appear alive to that of ******* (It is not my job to expose) but It says that It was sold to a P Davis of California on 5/28/07 (ORIENTAL DREAM). I have compared both pictures side by side and the spotts on both the fishes and facial lines, I am 99.99% sure this is the same fish.

[poconogal]

Hey Guyz:

I have an interesting question for you guyz? Has anyone received full and prompt refund on a DOA discus?

thanks,
Sandeep
Sandeep, I received half my money back on my entire order which consisted of two 4" fish and two 2 fish. One 2" had a swimbladder problem and my BD arrived ill. The other 2" discus died after a few days. I still have the two larger ones (and the BD is a weekly egg layer), and the little runted swimbladder guy. The surprising thing is that I received half my entire order back from somethingsphishy.com, a place notorious for paying no mind to its dissatisfied customers. None of them were DOA, though.

[Tropical Haven]

So, I feel that you should have waited to get a final response before putting this on the forum, my opinion.


Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world that we live in and it will never be. I can't blame hime one bit for being mad. The size and type of discus he ordered is a lot of money. We are not talking about a $20.00 order here where you could say oh well. Luckily this wasn't me this happened to because I would let everyone on this board know who it is so noone else ends up in the same position. I work really hard for my money and the price that some of these discus cost, it would take me some time to save for them. To get screwed like he did for the amount of money that was paid for these he has every right to post this on the forum. Oscar I hope everything works out for you my friend, this should have never happened.

[Kindredspirit]

I think I know the source, and I have compared the very first picture which everyone thought to appear alive to that of ******* (It is not my job to expose) but It says that It was sold to a P Davis of California on 5/28/07 (ORIENTAL DREAM). I have compared both pictures side by side and the spotts on both the fishes and facial lines, I am 99.99% sure this is the same fish.



In Davis, California, Fern?.....Are you sure about this? I am confused, what does your last paragraph mean, exactly?

Marie ~ :balloon:

[Fern]

In Davis, California, Fern?.....Are you sure about this? I am confused, what does your last paragraph mean, exactly?

Marie ~ :balloon:

Ok, P. Davis is the buyer who lives in California who bought it on 5/28/07 that is the info on the seller web page, who I am not going to reveil. The picture oscar displayed at the begining of the thread I have compared this pictures, (which I will not reveal) to the sellers web page with the above info. Oscars dead discus in the broken bag is the same fish which the seller has displayed as a sold fish with the above info.

[tpl*co]

I think I know the source, and I have compared the very first picture which everyone thought to appear alive to that of ******* (It is not my job to expose) but It says that It was sold to a P Davis of California on 5/28/07 (ORIENTAL DREAM). I have compared both pictures side by side and the spotts on both the fishes and facial lines, I am 99.99% sure this is the same fish.

Found the picture of the fish you are refering to too. But not quite sure that's the one? I don't think they'd ship that distance.

Tina

[Fern]

Found the picture of the fish you are refering to too. But not quite sure that's the one? I don't think they'd ship that distance.

Tina

To what distance Tina, where is Oscar located. Do what I did, enlarge the pics and place them side by side and compare the bottom spots and count them. This must be the clone of Oscars dead fish.

[White Worm]

As far as it being the same fish, cut off tail or not, that is, without a doubt, the same fish. If the bags were defective, this particular seller should take care of this issue (especially at $185 + shipping).

25699

25701

The fish does appear to be alive in the first pic but it is hard to determine by the pic alone. Normally, IME, the dead ones lose their color rather quickly upon death.

[Kindredspirit]

Ok, P. Davis is the buyer who lives in California who bought it on 5/28/07 that is the info on the seller web page, who I am not going to reveil. The picture oscar displayed at the begining of the thread I have compared this pictures, (which I will not reveal) to the sellers web page with the above info. Oscars dead discus in the broken bag is the same fish which the seller has displayed as a sold fish with the above info.


I Got it Fern! Thank You!:)

[April]

the pics dont show a styro box..all i see is cardboard and bags..and newsprint. was there a styro inside that cardboard box?
sorry to hear about your fish. hope things work out.
poor fish.. they are depending on us to have their best care at heart. hopefully all we can do is try our best to have all go well.

[White Worm]

I can see the styro in the first pic and the dead fish is laying on a styro lid.

[Elcid]

Sandeep, I received half my money back on my entire order which consisted of two 4" fish and two 2 fish. One 2" had a swimbladder problem and my BD arrived ill. The other 2" discus died after a few days. I still have the two larger ones (and the BD is a weekly egg layer), and the little runted swimbladder guy. The surprising thing is that I received half my entire order back from somethingsphishy.com, a place notorious for paying no mind to its dissatisfied customers. None of them were DOA, though.

That's pretty good, generally I expect the seller to give me credit on my next order and if it's my first time buying from that seller I doubt I'm gonna place another order with him.....

I still don't get with so many sponsors why do we need to buy fish from unknowns? Anyway, enough rant! :)

take care,
Sandeep

[tpl*co]

That's pretty good, generally I expect the seller to give me credit on my next order and if it's my first time buying from that seller I doubt I'm gonna place another order with him.....

I still don't get with so many sponsors why do we need to buy fish from unknowns? Anyway, enough rant! :)

take care,
Sandeep

With as many of us figuring out who it is on our own and picking out the fish on the person's site, this isn't an unknown.

Tina

[Elcid]

With as many of us figuring out who it is on our own and picking out the fish on the person's site, this isn't an unknown.

Tina

Hi Tina:

Really, I haven't paid much attention to all the detective work ;) So are you going to reveal who it is? I think it's not a good idea to jump to conclusions and let Oscar work it out with the seller! I would hate to create a situation where Oscar won't be getting some credit which I think he duely deserves.

take care,
Sandeep

[tpl*co]

Have the pictures changed on the site? I don't see the "davis" fish picture there, maybe the picture caption changed? (It's now David G. on 6/15/2007)

Tina

[Greg Richardson]

I think what you all are missing is the sellers policy.......................

Live Arrival Guaranteed: Any D.O.A. (dead on arrival) must be reported to __________ within 12 hours upon arrival. If for any reason, your purchase does not arrive alive, we will replace it free (excluding packaging and shipping) as long as the following procedure is followed:
You must take immediate action of your order upon its arrival. Take a picture of the specimen, dry the specimen and temporarily store it in the freezer.
If no one answers when you call, just fax or send us an e-mail to establish the time of death and then call us during business hours for your authorization. Never dispose of or return a fish without authorization.
If we ask you to return the specimen, you must put the dried specimen in a plastic bag without water, add some salt to the bag, seal the bag and return it by USPS Priority Mail with delivery confirmation to:

[White Worm]

Have the pictures changed on the site? I don't see the "davis" fish picture there, maybe the picture caption changed? (It's now David G. on 6/15/2007)

Tina

The picture is the same picture but now it reads a different buyer and date than it read earlier today because someone else actually purchased it??
The main issue is not that the seller has covered all bases of responsibility but that there is a possibility of someone using the improper materials which they should be responsible for regardless of their policy on returns. Granted, this is still in the early stages and I'm sure that the seller is going to do what is right according to ethics + policies. This is not someone unknown, and yes, jumping to any conclusions at this point would not be right. We will just have to see how things turn out. I didnt see a pic of the actual bags split at the seams? Kinda hard to see that from the pics. If O did anything wrong, then the selller has every right to stick to the terms of the agreement.

[Kindredspirit]

Hi Tina:

Really, I haven't paid much attention to all the detective work ;) So are you going to reveal who it is?
Sandeep


Of course she isn't ~ it is not her place to do that, Sandeep ~ at least not publically:)

[Desert Diamond Discus]

Greg,
I agree with the policy and i should have kept that fish to send back five days later with heat packs but i mentioned before that the people i have purchased discus from in the past have all been very respectful and accomadating when talking about keeping buyers happy, how many on this forum got fish replace by cary strong when you or someone you knew was not happy= how about mike wells when he was helping all of us with our problems and making sure if we bought from him that we were happy. i know mike did a bad thing years later but i also put myself in his shoes and realize that the man must have been going through very bad times to do what he did. Heck i remember giving people on this forum fish when they had a mishap and if you knew me from years back and knew how many fish i had in my fish room you must have wondered what became of those fish from pairs adults subs and babies- well i gave a few thousand dollars worth of fish supplies tanks and stands to a very nice man who i knew would take care of them and thats what i wanted --i wanted to rest at night knowing that the fish i loved were in good hands instead of good money in my hands.

also Greg its different when someon questions your integrity, especially if you pride yourself in being that kind of person which i do.

Fern,
You want to play investigator huh, you have made my point for me like i mentioned before-- theres always a few loyal followers who will go to battle for the seller and forget that a wrong is a wrong regardless especially when your talking about this kind of cash. Hell i think you want to out him more than i do.

Swinefka,
Thanks for your support i know you can feel my pain.

April,
There was a cardboard box about ten by eight inches and maybe ten high inside a cardboard box, i really dont think he did a bad job packaging the fish i really dont and i would he lieing if i said he did-- the whole problem lies in those bags they all tore in the same place, i still have them and i wish i could send them to each and every one of you so you could seed them- it is truelly amazing that someone would ship in those bags. i mean the paper was also in place when i opened tha box and you can see that the paper is also torn.

Sandeep,
this guy is not unknown but very stubborn, this guy is all about the money buy low sell high and thats all good but you have to be reasonable and not hide behind some steer crud policy, you know at work how your job discription is really open to anything and everything - i mean a boss can sit there and interprit some part of it in a way that you now have to scrub toillets cause its in your job discript thats this guy.

IIm giving this guy till the end of tomorrow then im outing his crack if he doesnt do right by this.
O

[Desert Diamond Discus]

I forgot to mention one thing, this guy really doesnt care about return buisness and thats why he doesnt care about people on the forums he only wants to make that money and thats why he is unwilling to compromise even with this issue. I really do like his fish but that only takes you so far and becouse hes not a rep for any one big breeder like wayne or tony tan he doesnt have to uphold any ones name not even that of his own so he does as he pleases or not as he pleases, i have remained calm when talking to him and civil even after he mentioned his attorney- i mentioned to him that i have a team of them and my brother is one as well and then he stopped that noise. I just think how stupid to not compromise with someone who is willing to buy what he wants no matter how expensive, if i like it and i can afford it its mine. Not that im money bags but i am willing to miss a few lunches for that discus i really like.
O

[Greg Richardson]

Greg,
I agree with the policy and i should have kept that fish to send back five days later with heat packs but i mentioned before that the people i have purchased discus from in the past have all been very respectful and accomadating when talking about keeping buyers happy, how many on this forum got fish replace by cary strong when you or someone you knew was not happy= how about mike wells when he was helping all of us with our problems and making sure if we bought from him that we were happy. i know mike did a bad thing years later but i also put myself in his shoes and realize that the man must have been going through very bad times to do what he did. Heck i remember giving people on this forum fish when they had a mishap and if you knew me from years back and knew how many fish i had in my fish room you must have wondered what became of those fish from pairs adults subs and babies- well i gave a few thousand dollars worth of fish supplies tanks and stands to a very nice man who i knew would take care of them and thats what i wanted --i wanted to rest at night knowing that the fish i loved were in good hands instead of good money in my hands.

also Greg its different when someon questions your integrity, especially if you pride yourself in being that kind of person which i do.


Oscar. Like I said in post a few back we all want to believe the best about people. You feel hurt because you feel he should realize what kind of a person you are. It hurts when one thinks they have spent a good part of their life building up a reputation based on actions of integrity.
That hurt is to be expected.

Even though you didn't follow policy you believe he should judge you on past actions if I'm reading you right here.

You suggest the bags should never be used. I can understand that.

Considering how many fish this person ships one must consider a few factors. Does he use them all the time and has had good success ratio?
Or, was it a one time thing?

I hope you guys talk on the phone not emails.
Emails are not a good negotiating tool because the wording and how it is presented can be taken the wrong way.

I think a middle ground can be reached here if cool heads talk together on the phone looking for a solution.

Neither one of you is going to come out of this feeling good about it completely due to the situation.

What each of you though can do is work to find a middle ground that makes sense considering the factors involved on both sides.

[DISCUS USA]

Oscar ive dealt with you before you are very decent guy and ive dealt with this seller many times im sure i know who it is ,,he is also a decent guy ..

what if he sends you a free replacement of same fish same quality same size and you pay the shipping Oscar? would that work or have you already requested some deal like that Oscar? im not taking sides,,know it sucks to have to pay for the shipping on free replacement but you got to put yourself in the sellers shoes just for a moment..

anyway hope i didnt offend you Oscar by bringing up this solution but i think both of you guys are fair people ,,try maybe to meet eachother half way..

hector-

[Fern]

Fern,
You want to play investigator huh, you have made my point for me like i mentioned before-- theres always a few loyal followers who will go to battle for the seller and forget that a wrong is a wrong regardless especially when your talking about this kind of cash. Hell i think you want to out him more than i do.

I am so very sorry to have maybe spoiled your big cover story or rub you the wrong way. But you did put yourselve on the hot seat and people in this forum have opinions, remember that's what you asked from the very begining.

"I just wanted to post these pics of my experience today and get some feedback. all comments welcomed.
Oscar"

So why are you now bitter, you are missing the big picture. You are not him(the seller) and other people do not think like you. We have only heard one side of this story so if you do not enjoy people not holding your hand at this moment as you would like then you should not have asked for people to comment................



Fern

[Desert Diamond Discus]

Fern,
All i posted was that it sounds like you really want this mistery out in the open and that you want him outed more than i do, but dont ever tell me to grow up again you dont know me from abe and thus u are ill qualified to make that suggestion, but again in this post of yours you have made my point and i have mine-- regardless of how many people on simply want me to tell who this shipper is i have not i have held that back to keep the peace --you really have gone to extremes your actually taking my pic and comparing to shots on peoples web sites. Thats why i wrote what i wrote. Your missing the point here, i do put myself in his shoes and understand him and i have verbalized this to him on the phone not a forum but i do want input and not your insults . you got hurt by my post and now your trying to save face.

Let me tell this again, i realize i did not comply to his rules 100 percent due to the circumstances== they are as follows, i had this fish shipped to my clinic so that i could have that fish in the tank as soon as it arrived taking into consideration that it was a fairly large fish, when it was un packed in my clinic i found it dead with only about half an inch of water in the bag. i took the pics immediately after as i went step by step layer by layer. first the pic of the fish still in the bag with me tilting the bag so that the fishes head was under water, second i took pics of the amnt of water in the box which was about an inch in a box that is approximately 12 by 12 by8 or so- imagine in a box that size and having an inch if not more of water cover the entire base of the box that doesnt leave a whole bunch of water left in the bag, then i took pics of the bags torn on the sides and i was careful not to remove the bags liner or newspaper so that it could be seen that i had not tempered with it in any way shape or form other that open the tops. i then took the fish out of the bag and placed it on a styrafoam lid and took the pic by this time my first patient had shown up and i needed to send this pics to the seller and tend to my patient so there wasnt a whole lot of time to mess around and i honestly was a bit hypped up and shaky becouse i didnt expect this and thats when i asked my assistant to please throw the box in the hall way and the fish out in the alleys dumptser== again thats my mistake and i have already admitted to it various times but i really thought i would have enough with the pics and that was that. of course i was wrong and this seller wanted me to go dig this fish out of a huge dumpster- not going to happen for a fish and for a guy like this no way.
So i do understand and i fault myself partially but expected more from this guy atleast some compromise which he has not agreed to do. all it takes is acknowledgement of a mistake and were go but when someone calls you a liar thats wrong straight out. That insult comes in first with a close second being grow up== no need.

Hector,
i think i have always been a fair person with all that i have dealt with and i really dont like to have these things turn bad and in all honesty they shouldnt when one adult is dealing with another, lack of responsibility or pride sometimes gets in our way of common sense.... i believe this is one of those casses.

Greg,
i have hoped to find middle ground but this gent wants no part of it and i think thats whats most frustrating---i thought we could work it out but he just wont budge according to him i havent proven the fish is dead and according to me i could never with his mind set and done.. i stated before that i feel like if i showed up with this fish dead in my hand he would not believe it either he would just find another excuse and thats whats wrong.

[Desert Diamond Discus]

Hector,
im sorry i forgot to mention that i dont mind paying for reshipping i dont mind coming to a compromise but the seller just wont compromise at all.
I thank you also for your input on this i dont think you or anyone else is being unfair or hurting my feelings here, not even bern== i mean fern:D
Oscar

[White Worm]

I didnt know who it was till fern tipped me off. There is always two sides to the story. Lesson learned....stay with what you know.

[Fern]

Fern,
All i posted was that it sounds like you really want this mistery out in the open and that you want him outed more than i do, but dont ever tell me to grow up again you dont know me from abe and thus u are ill qualified to make that suggestion, but again in this post of yours you have made my point and i have mine-- regardless of how many people on simply want me to tell who this shipper is i have not i have held that back to keep the peace --you really have gone to extremes your actually taking my pic and comparing to shots on peoples web sites. Thats why i wrote what i wrote. Your missing the point here, i do put myself in his shoes and understand him and i have verbalized this to him on the phone not a forum but i do want input and not your insults . you got hurt by my post and now your trying to save face.

Let me tell this again, i realize i did not comply to his rules 100 percent due to the circumstances== they are as follows, i had this fish shipped to my clinic so that i could have that fish in the tank as soon as it arrived taking into consideration that it was a fairly large fish, when it was un packed in my clinic i found it dead with only about half an inch of water in the bag. i took the pics immediately after as i went step by step layer by layer. first the pic of the fish still in the bag with me tilting the bag so that the fishes head was under water, second i took pics of the amnt of water in the box which was about an inch in a box that is approximately 12 by 12 by8 or so- imagine in a box that size and having an inch if not more of water cover the entire base of the box that doesnt leave a whole bunch of water left in the bag, then i took pics of the bags torn on the sides and i was careful not to remove the bags liner or newspaper so that it could be seen that i had not tempered with it in any way shape or form other that open the tops. i then took the fish out of the bag and placed it on a styrafoam lid and took the pic by this time my first patient had shown up and i needed to send this pics to the seller and tend to my patient so there wasnt a whole lot of time to mess around and i honestly was a bit hypped up and shaky becouse i didnt expect this and thats when i asked my assistant to please throw the box in the hall way and the fish out in the alleys dumptser== again thats my mistake and i have already admitted to it various times but i really thought i would have enough with the pics and that was that. of course i was wrong and this seller wanted me to go dig this fish out of a huge dumpster- not going to happen for a fish and for a guy like this no way.
So i do understand and i fault myself partially but expected more from this guy atleast some compromise which he has not agreed to do. all it takes is acknowledgement of a mistake and were go but when someone calls you a liar thats wrong straight out. That insult comes in first with a close second being grow up== no need.

Hector,
i think i have always been a fair person with all that i have dealt with and i really dont like to have these things turn bad and in all honesty they shouldnt when one adult is dealing with another, lack of responsibility or pride sometimes gets in our way of common sense.... i believe this is one of those casses.

Greg,
i have hoped to find middle ground but this gent wants no part of it and i think thats whats most frustrating---i thought we could work it out but he just wont budge according to him i havent proven the fish is dead and according to me i could never with his mind set and done.. i stated before that i feel like if i showed up with this fish dead in my hand he would not believe it either he would just find another excuse and thats whats wrong.

Your are right, no need for insults, I apologize.

You are going all over the place with this with info not needed to make your point. Good luck

Fern

[Kindredspirit]

"i really thought i would have enough with the pics and that was that."


You would think this would be the case, Oscar ~ I am so sad about this course of events ~ I am sad for those poor fish ~ I would not be able to look at them either ~ nor could I say:..."wait, let me go and see what I am suppose to do if they arrive DOA"....

If you had not taken pictures ~ that would be an issue ~ "why did you not take some pictures?"

Proof is in the pudding here and really, they arrived DOA ~ I could not imagine Kenny ever not making sure that his customers are 100% pleased....in every way ~ He would make good on this on a dime ~


I do not know you Oscar ~ but this is not okay ~ and the seller knows....


.......now do the right thing ~


Marie ~ :balloon:

[tpl*co]

"i really thought i would have enough with the pics and that was that."


You would think this would be the case, Oscar ~ I am so sad about this course of events ~ I am sad for those poor fish ~ I would not be able to look at them either ~ nor could I say:..."wait, let me go and see what I am suppose to do if they arrive DOA"....

If you had not taken pictures ~ that would be an issue ~ "why did you not take some pictures?"

Proof is in the pudding here and really, they arrived DOA ~ I could not imagine Kenny ever not making sure that his customers are 100% pleased....in every way ~ He would make good on this on a dime ~


I do not know you Oscar ~ but this is not okay ~ and the seller knows....


.......now do the right thing ~


Marie ~ :balloon:


I agree,

In cases like this, I really hope that a fair settlement is reached :(. Things to learn though, is always read the DOA policy BEFORE you order the fish, print it out. I've decided not order if the DOA policy seemed flaky or decided to pick up a fish in person if I could. Things happen in the mail and those carriers are absolute gorrillas when handling packages :(. Things that may have been well packed and made it before, may not in all cases depending on the carrier of the day.

Also, I would have probably fished out the fish from the dumpster (depending on how big or full it was) just to make my point :). (Heck, I've had to fish out stuff from the garbage before when DH threw something of mine away). But in cases of fish death, keep them in the freezer until everything is resolved.

Oscar, I hope everything turns out OK for you.

Tina

[DISCUS USA]

Hector,
im sorry i forgot to mention that i dont mind paying for reshipping i dont mind coming to a compromise but the seller just wont compromise at all.
I thank you also for your input on this i dont think you or anyone else is being unfair or hurting my feelings here, not even bern== i mean fern:D
Oscar

Sorry to hear that.. maybe hopefully by the end of the day something could be worked out between you guys ..

[Desert Diamond Discus]

Tina,
this is not only a large dumpter but we throw medical waste in there as well so its not a smart idea to go fishing this guy out. We have a gynocologist upstairs and we perform medical procedures that involve some bleeding. I thought about it but with this guys attitude i thought i can get HIV, Hepatittis and this guy may still not man up, so do you think you would go in after it now. Trust me i have thought of all the scenarios and put myself in his shoes many times.
Oscar

[tpl*co]

Tina,
this is not only a large dumpter but we throw medical waste in there as well so its not a smart idea to go fishing this guy out. We have a gynocologist upstairs and we perform medical procedures that involve some bleeding. I thought about it but with this guys attitude i thought i can get HIV, Hepatittis and this guy may still not man up, so do you think you would go in after it now. Trust me i have thought of all the scenarios and put myself in his shoes many times.
Oscar

Ewwwwww, :p OK, you're excused. I was thinking about that after I posted about medical waste.

Tina

[White Worm]

Should you be putting medical waste in a dumpster? Thats hazardous waste but I guess that is a subject for another thread, lol.

[brewmaster15]

Oscar,


we are talking about 5 out of the the 6 bags had rips that extended from the bottom to more than half was up the bag, the other bag which was the inner most bag had a rip on the seem that extended from the bottom to about 1-2 inches up and there you have it

just so I understand all the details here... You ordered 6 adult fish? and 1 of the 6 adult fish dies in transit....most likely due to bags used....

So the other 5 adult fish are okay though?


I have no idea what to think here on right and wrong...

I can see the point of the seller as I ask people to freeze the fish until we talk and freeze the fish when I have a problem with some shipped me..

I honestly don't think you would rip the seller or anyone off with this fish, either.

A customer is not something to be taken for granted in my book..... that relationship should be cultivated not belittled as being unimportant., IMO..

This is all very unfortunate ...Seeing issues like arise really saddens me... it seems to me that its often best to compromise....and if I was the seller..I'd look at the whole picture....not just a piece.

Good luck to you and to him.

-al

[Elcid]

Hi Al:

Only one fish was shipped in an 8" X 10" X 10" box. Must be time to lock this thread? Where's Randal ;)

HTH,
Sandeep

[brewmaster15]

Hi Al:

Only one fish was shipped in an 8" X 10" X 10" box. Must be time to lock this thread? Where's Randal ;)

HTH,
Sandeep

Sandeep,
Show a little respect...That was uncalled for.

I read 6 bags... my mistake if one fish was bagged in 6 bags....maybe Oscar can clarify it since he recieved the box.

-al

[Elcid]

Sandeep,
Show a little respect...That was uncalled for.

I read 6 bags... my mistake if one fish was bagged in 6 bags....maybe Oscar can clarify it since he recieved the box.

-al

Sorry Al:

Maybe you read my post like that but I was just claryfying that it was one fish that was shipped. I talked to Oscar and that's what he told me. Since he was not online I thought I would post.

I don't think it's a good idea to have everyone do detective work and chime in like this....Afterall it is an unfortunate situation for both the seller and the buyer....

Since you are opening up this type of discussion (which I thought this forum was against in the past) I would like to say that the seller cannot judge the integrety of each person he sells to and it is upto the buyer to understand and follow the policies and not expect that exceptions to be made because of who he is or his circumstances. Afterall, it's a business!

take care,
Sandeep

[brewmaster15]

Since you are opening up this type of discussion (which I thought this forum was against in the past) I would like to say that the seller cannot judge the integrety of each person he sells to and it is upto the buyer to understand and follow the policies and not expect that exceptions to be made because of who he is or his circumstances. Afterall, it's a business!


I haven't openned anything Sandeep.. but for someone concerned...you have no probelm chiming with your opinions and unasked for comments as well.
Your also against detective works but you talked with Oscar about it? thats hypocritical in my book.

Regards,
al

[Elcid]

I haven't openned anything Sandeep.. but for someone concerned...you have no probelm chiming with your opinions and unasked for comments as well.
Your also against detective works but you talked with Oscar about it? thats hypocritical in my book.

Regards,
al

I did so in PM!

take care,
Sandeep

[tpl*co]

OK, please, Al, Sandeep, everybody, please be civil and don't fight :(

We are all trying to get to the bottom of this and bickering isn't helping Oscar. This maybe is why the seller has his policies in the first place. A terrible thing happened and fighting isn't solving anything.

Tina

[White Worm]

Hi Al:

Must be time to lock this thread? Where's Randal ;)

HTH,
Sandeep

LOL ;)


Sorry Al:

I talked to Oscar and that's what he told me.
I don't think it's a good idea to have everyone do detective work and chime in like this

take care,
Sandeep
Come on now, you enjoy a good riddle as much as the next person and since O did ask for comments, that is what he got. Dont come to a forum and ask questions that you dont want the answers to. Most of us will find out through our own connections the truth. Well, at least 80% of the truth.



I haven't openned anything Sandeep.. but for someone concerned...you have no probelm chiming with your opinions and unasked for comments as well.
Your also against detective works but you talked with Oscar about it? thats hypocritical in my book.

Regards,
al

LOL, I would have to agree.


I did so in PM!

take care,
Sandeep

Uh, you also asked right out in the open thread who it was. I think it was your 4th or 5th post to this thread ;)

I'll go ahead and just say that I have spoke with the seller and there is always two sides to the story. There is more to the story that what has been discussed here. There still could be a middle ground reached but that will be up to the 2 involved as soon as they can both agree (they may not). I still would like to see the pictures of the bags with the seams torn perfectly on 5 of 6 bags. I have a question...Who is David?

[Elcid]

Wow Oscar:

It's happenned to me too! and ur right that is/was a beautiful discus! That's why I never buy discus larger than 2" anymore!

HTH
Sandeep

I don't know what ur taking about Mike :), I was the 1st one to post on this thread this this is what I said! Yes I did ask! It was kinda funny how all you you had found out through your detective work but couldn't say....That's why I asked! I had already discussed with Oscar in the beginning and knew all the details except the seller's name! Let's just wait and hope for the best!

take care,
Sandeep

[alxjss]

OK, please, Al, Sandeep, everybody, please be civil and don't fight :(

We are all trying to get to the bottom of this and bickering isn't helping Oscar. This maybe is why the seller has his policies in the first place. A terrible thing happened and fighting isn't solving anything.

Tina

This is an awesome thread. Really, should be on the livestock and product review thread/ Its too bad things like this happen. Who knows, maybe it was some one in shipping, (P.O. Fed Ex,...etc) whatever the case may be, when u ask for peoples feedback, u will get all of it whether u like it or not. Just keep things going w/the seller and maybe Oscar, just maybe, things will work out ok. u sound to me like u have done alot and talked w/the seller, who ever that may be. Good luck to u..

[brewmaster15]

Okay enough is enough.... This Nancy drew and The Hardy Boys case is closed as far as the forum is concerned.

I'm locking this thread so Oscar and This seller "that shall not be named, but everyone knows the ID of " can work things out as it started... a private transaction between a buyer and seller.

I should have seen this threads direction sooner..:(


Oscar... you are free to leave the seller negative feedback in I-trader...and the seller who is also a member here is welcome to leave the same for you. You also may leave feedback in the livestock section, where others with first hand experience with that seller can share their positive and negative experiences minus all the comments by everyone that has no direct experience with said seller. (myself included)

I sincerely hope you both work this out.

regards,
al

[Desert Diamond Discus]

Here are those pics i spoke about, its very hard to get good pics of the bags in most i tried separating the layers of ripped bags and the newspaper.
Oscar

[Desert Diamond Discus]

last few

[brewmaster15]

Oscar,
That thread is closed....I'll merge this one with it so your pictures are together.... but please do not keep bringing it up.

Thanks,
al