Can someone tell me what this is?

[alxjss]

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discus2068.jpg

See that! All of them have it. Some worse than others. I have been doing a 50-80% w/c daily. They r in a 75 gal barebottom with a fluval 404 and a sponge filter. My water parms r Trates: .50-10, ammon/ 25, ph:7.4, no trItes. They r very irritable. Constantly chasing e/o. Can someone help me? Do u think it might be my filter? I am @ a loss here. Just when i think its getting better, i see this.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s294/alxjss/discus2034.jpg

Here is another. There r other fish like this also. W/ splitting fins and more.:(:(

[Tropical Haven]

I would say the main cause is probably because you are showing ammonia levels. Get rid of the ammonia and things should improve.

[Kindredspirit]

:)

[alxjss]

I am doing everything possible to get rid of the ammon. I don't know what else to do. I have been doing w/c's everyday. Its a 75gal and there shouldn't be any ammon. I can't take this. I have never had this problem before. I have had more fish in this tank than there r now. I can't even control the trAtes in this tank. How do i get rid of the ammonia?

[Tropical Haven]

Prime will help eliminate it and are you sure your filtration is fully cycled because if it isn't able to hold the bioload that is in the tank then you may show readings of Ammonia.

[billeagan]

I would throw another sponge in or better yet put a biowheel on it.

[NYDiscusslover]

Hey,

I would try lowering your PH.

[Kindredspirit]

Your pH is fine ~ just keep it stable ~ :)

[alxjss]

Prime will help eliminate it and are you sure your filtration is fully cycled because if it isn't able to hold the bioload that is in the tank then you may show readings of Ammonia.
Thanks for the reply Scott. I had the tank w/diff. fish. The tank was set up for more than 2 yrs. When I decided to take them out of the 55gal., i screwed up. I completely washed the filter, in fish water, but took the tank out and cleaned it w/bleach water. I then refilled the tank w/complete tap and no used water. I have had them in this tank for about 6wks. I am currently using cycle to try and get the bioload stable. I am now doing a 35-50% w/c every other day, or 2 days @ the most. They r doing better, but thats the routine they have. Some good and some bad days. Always eating, but yet picking on e/o. Its just the finage that is bothering me now.


I would throw another sponge in or better yet put a biowheel on it.
Hi Bill, thanks for the input. I have an extra 10gal sponge attached to the main sponge already. Will that be enough?

Hi Marie. Nice to hear from u. The ph is stable. Always 7.4.:confused:

[White Worm]

Better off not mixing used water with clean water anyways. It wont help the tank much anyways (probably do more harm than good ... doc's). Media that has good amounts of bacteria is what will get your tank fully cycled.

[alxjss]

Better off not mixing used water with clean water anyways. It wont help the tank much anyways (probably do more harm than good ... doc's). Media that has good amounts of bacteria is what will get your tank fully cycled.

ok Mike, what is doc's media? Where do i get it? Also, what about the media i had w/the other fish? I only rinsed it in fish water and used prime also. Not only that, i added xtra for the filters.
thanks

[White Worm]

DOC’s are carbohydrates, fats, amino acids, enzymes, hormones, phenolic compounds, etc. Pretty much everything you cant see. Anything that rots or decomposes adds to your Dissolved Organic Compounds. Activated Carbon removes a lot of them but unfortunately AC removes trace elements also that fish need.
High levels of DOC’s encourage disease and affect overall water quality.
Solid waste, food, slime, scales, etc will ultimately be broken down by decomposer microorganisms into a wide range of dissolved pollutants (DOC’s). This is the stuff that resides in used water. See why its better to just use clean water? Its like taking a shower, saving the water and mixing it with clean water the next time you shower. Guess what also lowers your DOC’s???? Yep, you guessed it, nice large w/c!

[Darren's Discus]

Eileen,
best thing don't panic w/c w/c w/c keep doing it and personally i would stop feeding for a couple of days get an ammo ball or as bill suggested a wheel just keep those w/c up and all should return to normal quickly.


all the best with it !


cheers

[Kindredspirit]

Exactly! Repeat after me....wc wc wc ~ and cut back on the feedings a bit and see if that helps, like Darren suggested ~ but wc is the best to rid ammonia ~

Calm down, relax and don't panic, Eileen ~ :)

Save that for when you forget something stupid like turning back on their air supply or filter.....;)

[alxjss]

Ok, i think i am beyond panicking. I am in frustration mode. I have been doing w/c's for wks and wks and even after the w/c, i get small amm. readings. I also have been using a prefilter, wipeing down the sides of the tank, rinsing the prefilter. I have been going thru all the things i am supposed to do and nothing. One-two days there was no ammon reading. I was thrilled, thinking, "Yes"! i got this beat. But test my water the next day and its back. Never more than .25 tho. I am about to try something else, but don't no what yet....:mad:

[poconogal]

Eileen, you can get a product called Aqua Chargers. Its tiny bio balls to put in your filter that have the bacteria to eliminate ammonia, and it actually works. That will help to beef up your bio filter fast. I've used them myself and it worked great. I believe I bought it at drsfostersmith.com and its not expensive.

Here's a link:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4000&Ntt=aqua%20charger&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

After your ammonia is under control, you will probably experience a nitrite spike which can be dealt with by adding some regular, kosher or aquarium salt to the tank to prevent nitrite poisoning. About 1-2 tsp. per 10 gallons of water is usually sufficient, but observe the fish to see if they are having a reaction and add more salt if necessary.

[AmberC]

Eileen while I fully doubt you will take MY advice...

Do you use prime. If so go here and get this test kit:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18541/si1380263/cl0/seachemmultitestammoniafreetotal

Its the Seachem Free and total ammonia test kit. If you are using prime, which I think you are... you can get a false ammonia reading in your tank (Hence the ammonia never being above .25ppm)

[alxjss]

Eileen, you can get a product called Aqua Chargers. Its tiny bio balls to put in your filter that have the bacteria to eliminate ammonia, and it actually works. That will help to beef up your bio filter fast. I've used them myself and it worked great. I believe I bought it at drsfostersmith.com and its not expensive.

Here's a link:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4000&Ntt=aqua%20charger&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

After your ammonia is under control, you will probably experience a nitrite spike which can be dealt with by adding some regular, kosher or aquarium salt to the tank to prevent nitrite poisoning. About 1-2 tsp. per 10 gallons of water is usually sufficient, but observe the fish to see if they are having a reaction and add more salt if necessary.
thanks connie, i ordered it:)

Eileen while I fully doubt you will take MY advice...

Do you use prime. If so go here and get this test kit:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18541/si1380263/cl0/seachemmultitestammoniafreetotal

Its the Seachem Free and total ammonia test kit. If you are using prime, which I think you are... you can get a false ammonia reading in your tank (Hence the ammonia never being above .25ppm)

Amber, don't say or think that. Of course i will take your advice. I have already ordered it, along with the aqua chargers that connie suggested. Thank u soooo much,,,,
btw, u still r my discus angel;)

[White Worm]

Eileen while I fully doubt you will take MY advice...


Yikes.. is someone holding a grudge?

[Graham]

Thinking out loud:antlers: at what point during the day are you taking that NH3 reading...how long after you've fed them?

[alxjss]

Thinking out loud:antlers: at what point during the day are you taking that NH3 reading...how long after you've fed them?

Hi Graham, I take a reading whenever i think of it. Sometimes the first thing in the morning, other times later in the day, even right after a w/c. Its only read 0 amm. 2 x's. That is why i am wondering what is up. Also, trates r high. Even w/ w/c trates r never @ 0.
I have even cut back on feeding. Also, look in the photo sec, u can see how they look and how my tank is set up. Well, most of it anyway. Its under "Semi Juvies"

[Graham]

OKsomuchforthatideai'llhavetothinkofsomethingelse. ..oops;)

It's quite possible that you're just hitting certain times of the day when ambiemt ammonia levels are not ambient, they are showing up. This is quite possible considering considering feeding times and a filter that's not well established as this one seems to be. Have you tested you tap water for ammonia?

99% of all aquariums have a nitrate reading, it's almost impossible to get a zero reading, as it should be, if the nitirfiers are doing thier job

I wouldn't worry about it...have you checked you tap water for NO3

[Kindredspirit]

Yikes.. is someone holding a grudge?


Mike why you do that? It is worked out obviously ~ come on, babe:(

[alxjss]

there is no ammonia in my tap. I just checked my amm and trates again. Still the same after 22hrs. I am not gonna do a w/c tonite. I will check it out first thing tomorrow morn. Again, i am baffeld.

[White Worm]

Eileen while I fully doubt you will take MY advice...




Mike why you do that? It is worked out obviously ~ come on, babe:(


Why would someone do that if things had been worked out. I think the post could have done without that entry. Kinda rude. I'm just evil I guess. :D

[alxjss]

OKsomuchforthatideai'llhavetothinkofsomethingelse. ..oops;)

It's quite possible that you're just hitting certain times of the day when ambiemt ammonia levels are not ambient, they are showing up. This is quite possible considering considering feeding times and a filter that's not well established as this one seems to be. Have you tested you tap water for ammonia?

99% of all aquariums have a nitrate reading, it's almost impossible to get a zero reading, as it should be, if the nitirfiers are doing thier job

I wouldn't worry about it...have you checked you tap water for NO3

ok G, is there any thing i should put in the tank. I see alot of twitching going on. I don't understand what is happening...:(

[pcsb23]

Eileen, I am at work (lunch break) at the moment but looking at the photo's I am struggling to see split fins. I see some seperation of the hard rays (normal) and some slight irregularities in the tail fins but nothing that would cause me too much concern.

As others have said the ammonia reading could be down to many things, it could be a false reading due to the prime and the way it works, it could be in your tap water too! Its worth testing the tap water, just in case.

With a properly matured filter then very small amounts of ammonia (0.25ppm is very small) will be consumed in no time. Once your filters are up to full strength I believe this problem will go away. 0.25ppm of ammonia will not kill your fish, it may stress them and that may be what all the twitching is. The twitching may also be down to them getting "romantic" too ;)

I know how frustrating it can be (and still is sometimes!!) but patience really is one the keys to success here. Keep up with doing daily w/c's go for between 33% and 50% and dose with prime each time. Also wipe down the hard surfaces and keep sponges clean by squeezing them out once or twice a week in tank water in a bucket for now. Try adding another sponge filter or a bio wheel, it certainly won't cause any harm and may just fix it. The fluval with the sponge though should provide adequate filtration once fully matured.

As far as feeding is concerned, I would feed them smaller amounts and maybe feed more often if its possible. Remove uneaten food after half an hour agian if its possible.

It will be interesting to see what the readings are with the new test kit you've ordered.

[alxjss]

Hi Paul,
I guess this is it then. Just wait it out and see what happens. I no its hard to see the splits in the tail, but maybe i am seeing something like what u said. If nothing is wrong for the longterm, i will keep up w/what i am doing.
Thanks everyone

[alxjss]

Eileen while I fully doubt you will take MY advice...

Do you use prime. If so go here and get this test kit:

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18541/si1380263/cl0/seachemmultitestammoniafreetotal

Its the Seachem Free and total ammonia test kit. If you are using prime, which I think you are... you can get a false ammonia reading in your tank (Hence the ammonia never being above .25ppm)

ok Amber, Paul and everyone else. I got my test kit for ammonia. I did the fine reading. I don't no how to read this because it has a scale like so:
0.0'''''''''''0.01''''|''''''0.15''''''''''0.2'''' ''''''0.5'''''''''''1.0''''''''''2.0''''''''''3.0
My reading came to the 0.01-0.15. It doesn't seem like much, but what is much. What i have. It didn't turn out 0.0. So u think this is what is causing my fish fin problems?
thAnks

[Graham]

That's probably within the error factor of the test kit...what's the pH

[alxjss]

Hi G,
The ph is 7.2.

[Graham]

Even if the ammonia reading is totally accurate, at that pH it is completely non-toxic...no affect on the fish

[alxjss]

That is great news. So the problems, well what i think r problems, r probably stress related. Huh, what a shock. The older they get, the more they bully e/o. Thanks G:D

[Graham]

That is great news. So the problems, well what i think r problems, r probably stress related. Huh, what a shock. The older they get, the more they bully e/o. Thanks G:D

It's a cichlid.... it's a pita...they hate each other