QT - quarantine - procedures for inverts?

[scolley]

I'v got to increase the algae eaters in my tank, and Cardinia Japonica - Amano shrimp - are just what I need. Or rather, I've got enough algae that I need lots more.

What I don't know, is what is the proper QT process for inverts?

I'm assuming that most medications used in quarantine tanks will be devastating to inverts. Is there a proven, known procedure for medicating inverts - just to get rid of any pathogens - that will not kill/harm the inverts?

Thanks in advance.

[AmberC]

Well I dont know what other people do or if there is even a proper procedure for QTing them.. but ME... I dont.

Ok here it comes LOL QT EVERYTHING.. yes yes I know. But do shrimp even get the same diseases as fish? I dont know, but have never known them to.. and have never had any problems with just putting them straight into my tank before.

If I was going to QT them.. I guess I'd do just like I did with my fish though and put them in a 20 for 6 weeks and watch them.

HTH
Amber

[scolley]

Thanks Amber. I guess I asked the wrong question...

I don't really want to quarantine them for any long period of time - exactly because that even if they WERE sick, I'm assuming they can't pass their illness to the fish.

That said, it is possible that they could be host to pathogens that could affect fish, particularly external varieties, or some germ that is still on (in their gut?) them from the water they came from. So for that reason I'd like to run them through an appropriate course of prophylactic medications. I just don't know what would be appropriate for inverts.

Or am I just being paranoid?

Thanks,

[tpl*co]

I think I've read that some parasites use an invert host before being passed along/infecting fish.

But then a lot of meds are harmful to inverts, or how do you know they're effective in inverts?

And what I've done is not QT'ing them (new algae eating snails in my planted tank) so fingers crossed.

Tina

[reelay0]

I've seen a glass shrimp (ghost shrimp) with a string in it one time, and 1 week later, the thread looking thing came out of it and was a 5 inch long smooth worm. I chased the infected shrimp with a net, and the worm escaped out of the shrimp to swim around the aquarium. I ended up flushing the shrimp and the worm down the toilet. very predator-esque.

[tpl*co]

Here's something on parasites that I found (didn't get to read all of it though). It does mention crustations as an intermediate host for some parasites:

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/aqua/parasites.html

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA041


Tina

[scolley]

THANK YOU!

From your posts, there is CLEARLY something to be concerned about. I may be paranoid, but there is still something to be reasonably afraid of!

I've observed VERY strict quarantine procedures on my discus since I first got them. I got their environment FREE of pathogens a while ago, and have been VERY cautious about not reintroducing them. And surprise, surprise... even though I AM a discus newbie - I've got a tank full of healthy fish. No coincidence I suspect.

But now I need shrimp. How - oh how - does one strip these crustaceans of all the ugly critters that might be hitch hiking in/on them? If these were fish (which BTW I AM introducing some cory's too) I could search this wonderful forum and find REAMS of opinion on how to make sure they were safe to add to my discus tank.

But I can find ZERO information on crustaceans.

And I CANNOT tolerate the possibility of introducing a pest to my planted discus tank. Not because I'm afraid of medicating the discus. It is rather because I am terrified of the possibility of having to medicate my plants. Discus get over it. Plants often die.

Any info on what a shrimp can tolerate, and what should be used would be MUCH appreciated. :)

[wolfbane]

Most inverts are copper sensitive. That's the only thing I know of. I just put my shrimp in the tank and didn't QT them. Wonder if I need to worm my fish now! Lol. Maybe someone with more knowlege can chime in?

[Ed13]

Steve I feel your pain as I feel exactly the same way!
Unfortunately as has been mentined parasites often use crustaceans and other inverts as intermidiate hosts and they can also harbor some very nasty bacterias depending on collection or the farm. The biggest concern is the lack of signs or symptoms so even after a couple of weeks in Quaranteen they won't neccesarily show signs of trouble. To make it worst they don't tolerate chemicals very well.
I can't really recommend any method but I have used AP's Aquarisol as a preventive treatment before on Amano shrimp and on Cherry shrimp. One time I even used Quick cure on a very light dose. However non of these will take care of the very nasties.

[Apistomaster]

I don't quarantine shrimp. They are best moved as little as necessary.
The risk of shrimp introducing problems is one I consider negligible.

[scolley]

Most inverts are copper sensitive.Yea, thanks. That's one of the planted tank mantra's "no copper if you have shrimp."



I can't really recommend any method but I have used AP's Aquarisol as a preventive treatment before on Amano shrimp and on Cherry shrimp. One time I even used Quick cure on a very light dose. However non of these will take care of the very nasties.
Ed - I think you got lucky on that one. Aquarisol is copper based. I'm gonna pass. I'm glad it worked for you, but while there are alternates that appear potentially safer, I'm gonna try them. Thanks though.


The risk of shrimp introducing problems is one I consider negligible.
You are probably right. But I've found that a little paranoia goes a long way to keeping bad things at bay. I apply that to both my hobbies and my work. :)

It's also a risk reward question. I'd rather risk $100 worth of shrimp than $1,000+ worth of fish.



So what am I gonna do?
Also Rid-Ich+ is an FMG med (fights most external nasties), and though it has a specific contraindication "may harm some invertebrates such as live rock", I might test it on a single shrimp or two. That could cover me for external parasites. But what to do about internal?

I've used PP on my tank with no harm to the shrimp. But I assume that only covers external.

Anyone have experience with PraziPro on shrimp? That would cover me for internal, it's not copper based, and has no contraindications regarding inverts...

PS - I've got a little bit of time to make up my mind here... the fish in in their quarantine tank, recuperating from the trip. I'll give them a week or more to regain their vigor before I start anything.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Steve,
Given that most meds are toxic to invertebrates, I'd suggest that may want to try using formalin on them to remove any external parasites....test it half dose first.

Next...concern would be any incidental bacterias they may harbor... To check this... I'd add one of my discus to the QT tank and observe several weeks...If its fine...I'd guess they are probably safe in that category.

Lastly...many invertebrates are carriers of internal parasites , particularly tape worms...this ones the toughest category to deal with.... It seems like a good experiment;) to see how shrimp tolerate a medicated feed like Gel Tek's antiparasitic meds? If not....worst case scenario is you may have to deal with internal parasites in the fish down the road, but if healthy the fish may be able to deal with these themselves.

Good luck,
al

[Jason]

I've heard they can can carry mycobacteriums or fish tb, anyone else hear of this?

[brewmaster15]

Hi Jason,


I've heard they can can carry mycobacteriums or fish tb, anyone else hear of this?

unfortunately yes...:(



https://www.was.org/meetings/AbstractData.asp?AbstractId=10840

-al

[Ed13]

Ed - I think you got lucky on that one. Aquarisol is copper based. I'm gonna pass. I'm glad it worked for you, but while there are alternates that appear potentially safer, I'm gonna try them. Thanks though.

Yes, it's soluble copper salts. But, luck wasn't in the equation. I've used it many times on thousands of farmed Amano shrimp, although I was nervous every time:o I do not blame you for going another route.

The live rock statement is because, live rock harbors MANY species of frail and sensitive animals(from Algae to Bacteria to Corals:))

BTW, anything that comes in contact with mycobacterium sp, wheter alive or not, can transfer the bacteria around!

[SuAsati]

Best QT if you not have new place is to keep fish in 1drop formaline and 2 drop alchohol for all one gallon for 3hrs, it clear all bad ones.

[scolley]

Hi Steve,
Given that most meds are toxic to invertebrates, I'd suggest that may want to try using formalin on them to remove any external parasites....test it half dose first.

Next...concern would be any incidental bacterias they may harbor... To check this... I'd add one of my discus to the QT tank and observe several weeks...If its fine...I'd guess they are probably safe in that category.

Lastly...many invertebrates are carriers of internal parasites , particularly tape worms...this ones the toughest category to deal with.... It seems like a good experiment;) to see how shrimp tolerate a medicated feed like Gel Tek's antiparasitic meds? If not....worst case scenario is you may have to deal with internal parasites in the fish down the road, but if healthy the fish may be able to deal with these themselves.

Good luck,
al
Will do exactly as you suggest. Thanks.



Yes, it's soluble copper sulphate. But, luck wasn't in the equation. I've used it many times on thousands of farmed Amano shrimp, although I was nervous every time:o I do not blame you for going another route.
Holey Moley Ed! Thousands of Amano's?!?! So, my friend... just what do you do? You're making me rethink my position on not using Aquasol. :) Anyone with THAT MANY shrimp CANNOT be wrong!



Best QT if you not have new place is to keep fish in 1drop formaline and 2 drop alchohol for all one gallon for 3hrs, it clear all bad ones.
I'm new to the alchol addition... is that common?


Thanks all for the help!

[Ed13]

Holey Moley Ed! Thousands of Amano's?!?! So, my friend... just what do you do? You're making me rethink my position on not using Aquasol. :) Anyone with THAT MANY shrimp CANNOT be wrong!
LOL They were not mine!
I used to work(not too long ago) in the aquarium industry here(in wholesale), and setting and mantaining tanks under a Co and on my own, mostly planted and reef setups and the occasional cichlid tank or pond.I also was a fixture at the other wholesalers. About a year ago I basically knew from where all fresh water and some salwater fish on the island came from and what wholeseller
BTW, a thousand shrimp could be just one shipment!

We often used Aquarisol in planted tanks when ich became a problem as the only med safe for tanks containing inverts, it rarely produced a death on show tanks, but its still not made for target use on inverts and not all respond the same way. We relied on it more on the fact that it did not harm plants than it was safe for the shrimp. They did not stay for too long to know of long term problems though
I don't neccesarily think it would do you much good for what you want it though, I was just empty on ideas:o. You could volunteer a couple of "test shrimp" for testing this and other meds before you try on the main population

[scolley]

Thanks Ed! You sound like the "man in the know"! I've had good invert luck - long term that is - with FMG in the past, so in keeping with Al's Formalin recommendation, I'll stick with that. I know it works in the dosages I've used in the past. Copper based meds are great with plants though - as you mentioned - as they can do a number on the *#$!! snail eggs.

Thanks for the response! And if you find you ever need a great "show tank" for any fine PR product you run across, I'd be honored to be considered. ;)