Wild Discus and Domestic Discus

[wilddiscuss]

I have a question about puting the 2 in the same tank. It would be nice. I have heard mixed opinions. Now I have Discus that are at regular tap water PH here in Michigan. The water here is really clean. So I am trying to find out if there is any Wild discus out there that are sold in the same PH? Are there any Wild Discus breaders? Or any that are brought up to the tap water PH of 7.5 with a kH of 7 and a gh of 7? I know Great Lakes Discus did it with domestic Discus in his hatchery. The Discus are great quality and have done really well. Please help :)

Todd

[Polar_Bear]

Wilds will live fine in your tap water, I wouldn't expect them to breed succesfully though.

[wilddiscuss]

Thanks :) It is a show tank so I am not planning on breeding them. Thank you for the reply. Is there anywhere you recomend picking up wild heckels or greens? I am looking for some good places to pick them up. Also I am about to cycle a new 75 gal. with a oceanic trickle filter. What does anyone recomend to do to cycle it. People have been telling me to do a fishless cycle. How do I go about doing that? Or is there another way you suggest I cycle it? If I were to cycle it without fish...do I just buy some of that liquid Cycle at the store and pour it in the tank and start it that way? Or do you think I should add some starter fish? OrIf so what kind? I don't want to just take some sponge from my other tank. It is way too far. I want to start this one from scratch...the right way. Let me know.

Todd

[brewmaster15]

Todd,
The easiest thing is to check with the supplier of your fish and see if they can provide you with a cycled sponge.

If you want to cycle it from scratch..clear ammonia is the way to go.


pH 7.4- 7.6 is what I keep and raise my wilds in..and yes..mixing them with domestics is not an issue. I do it all the time:)
hth,
al

[Polar_Bear]

If you are looking for wilds Bill Eagan just posted some in this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=58946

I am one of the few who likes doing a nitrogen cycle via a store bought product, Bio-Spira and Stability are the two I prefer. I find that either of them will give you a "cycled" tank in less than a week. Two other good options are the one Al already stated about using ammonia, or just doing very massive daily water changes until the bio bacteria catch up.

[wilddiscuss]

Todd,
The easiest thing is to check with the supplier of your fish and see if they can provide you with a cycled sponge.

If you want to cycle it from scratch..clear ammonia is the way to go.


pH 7.4- 7.6 is what I keep and raise my wilds in..and yes..mixing them with domestics is not an issue. I do it all the time:)
hth,
al

Clear ammonia? Where do I get it. How much do add? Ok well directions totally...what do I do? lol. I have no idea. I have never cycled without fish before. I want to know how though. If I use stait ammonia. I want to know the right way to do it. Thanks :)

[phidelt85]

I picked up my Ammonia @ Ace Hardware. Plain old 10% Ammonium Hydroxide.

[brewmaster15]

Todd,

The web is full of methods....heres a few...

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=113

hth,
al

[Don Trinko]

Choice Aquarium had some nice wilds last time I was their. He is in Michigan.. Don T.

[wilddiscuss]

Todd,

The web is full of methods....heres a few...

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_fishless.php
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=113

hth,
al

AL,

I read most of the articles. It looks like it will take about a week or a little over to cycle it. But they really didn't explain how much ammonia to add? I have a 75 gallon tank. I do know I need to buy the clear ammonia and add it to the tank free of perfumes. I know After the Ammonia level has droped when I test it that I need to still add a bit to make sure that the cycle continues into it's final stages. But how much?

Todd

[brewmaster15]

Hi Todd,
I use Stop and Shop clear ammonia...Its just your run of the mill clear ammonia sold at grocery stores....its worked well for me..
I use about 5 mls or a capful of ammonia per 55gal-75 gal tank...check the readings and be sure its giving you a good signal on a test kit... then monitor until it drops and as it drops you should start seeing Nitrite... once that happens I start adding ammonia again as I want to keep that bacteria happy... again i look for drop in the test results.... When I can add 5 mls of ammonia to the tank and test 0ppm for both ammonia and nitrite after 12-24 hours...I consider the tank cycled enough for fish... Then its a 100% water change to remove nitrates and I add fish..

It usually takes me 4-6 weeks this way..

I have no doubt that theres many other ways out there that are better.. or more accurate...but this is what I have always done and it works well for me.

I still think the asking of a cycled sponge from your fish supplier is best...I supply them all the time to new tank runners...many suppliers will do so as well.

hth,
al

[wilddiscuss]

Hi Todd,
I use Stop and Shop clear ammonia...Its just your run of the mill clear ammonia sold at grocery stores....its worked well for me..
I use about 5 mls or a capful of ammonia per 55gal-75 gal tank...check the readings and be sure its giving you a good signal on a test kit... then monitor until it drops and as it drops you should start seeing Nitrite... once that happens I start adding ammonia again as I want to keep that bacteria happy... again i look for drop in the test results.... When I can add 5 mls of ammonia to the tank and test 0ppm for both ammonia and nitrite after 12-24 hours...I consider the tank cycled enough for fish... Then its a 100% water change to remove nitrates and I add fish..

It usually takes me 4-6 weeks this way..

I have no doubt that theres many other ways out there that are better.. or more accurate...but this is what I have always done and it works well for me.

I still think the asking of a cycled sponge from your fish supplier is best...I supply them all the time to new tank runners...many suppliers will do so as well.

hth,
al

Ok that sounds easy. Do I add a cap full a day if the ammonia drops and there is no nitrite yet? Or do I keep adding daily until it drops? Now what do I want the ammonia to read on the tester for the day or two before it drops? And once I get a reading of nitrite...how much ammonia do I want to add then? the same ammount? About a cap full for my 75 gallon?

[brewmaster15]

Todd,
the ammonia cant drop in levels without a corresponding increase in nitrites..... unless you have live plants...if you do ? this whole scenario changes.


Once you see your ammonia dropping , add ammonia... a few mls should do it.....eventually you will go get to a point where you will 5 mls of ammonia and the next day have no ammonia or nitrites..

Again... you may want to read up on this more and look at what others do for something more specific..

hth,
al

[billeagan]

Todd,

My current stock of wilds are in lake Michigan water - PH 7.8 TDS off the charts and they are doing fine.

Like Larry said I would not expect them to breed in the water.

I would see about getting a seeded sponger/filter media from someone - its quicker and safer, IMO.

HTH
Bill

[wilddiscuss]

Todd,
the ammonia cant drop in levels without a corresponding increase in nitrites..... unless you have live plants...if you do ? this whole scenario changes.


Once you see your ammonia dropping , add ammonia... a few mls should do it.....eventually you will go get to a point where you will 5 mls of ammonia and the next day have no ammonia or nitrites..

Again... you may want to read up on this more and look at what others do for something more specific..

hth,
al

Ok I'll do some more investigating. But no I am not having a live plant tank. I am going to have no gravel either. Just a sponge and a trickle filter. So the ammonia should be 1 cap full the first day...then when I get the Nitrite levels I should add a few mls a day....until I get Nitrate readings....then clean water and add fish? Sounds about right? SOunds pretty easy if I got it right wich I think I do. Thank you Al and everyone :)

P.S. Bill do you stay in Michigan? That would be awesome! If not online is good :) Sounds like you are getting a lot of recomendations. As soon as I'm set up through my cycle I'll come see you :) But I will look into the sponge. I know I can get ahold off a sponge with media on it from my LPS but it isn't from a Discus tank. Maybe I can get Cari from Great Lakes Discus to help me out.

Todd

[billeagan]

Ok I'll do some more investigating. But no I am not having a live plant tank. I am going to have no gravel either. Just a sponge and a trickle filter. So the ammonia should be 1 cap full the first day...then when I get the Nitrite levels I should add a few mls a day....until I get Nitrate readings....then clean water and add fish? Sounds about right? SOunds pretty easy if I got it right wich I think I do. Thank you Al and everyone :)

P.S. Bill do you stay in Michigan? That would be awesome! If not online is good :) Sounds like you are getting a lot of recomendations. As soon as I'm set up through my cycle I'll come see you :) But I will look into the sponge. I know I can get ahold off a sponge with media on it from my LPS but it isn't from a Discus tank. Maybe I can get Cari from Great Lakes Discus to help me out.

Todd

I'm in Chicago. I would be careful what kind of tank the filter comes from - if its from a south american tank you should be fine.

[wilddiscuss]

I'm in Chicago. I would be careful what kind of tank the filter comes from - if its from a south american tank you should be fine.

The sponge should be from south america? How would I get that? The sponge I can get from a local domestic breeder. I know the LPS one is a giant tank with some silver dollars and a few other fish. He would give me the sponge from there. Chi-town isn't too far...lol. That's close enough to get here to Detroit very quickly. I will be contacting soon :)

Todd

[billeagan]

The sponge should be from south america? How would I get that? The sponge I can get from a local domestic breeder. I know the LPS one is a giant tank with some silver dollars and a few other fish. He would give me the sponge from there. Chi-town isn't too far...lol. That's close enough to get here to Detroit very quickly. I will be contacting soon :)

Todd

=) I meant that the sponge should come from a tank holding south american fish. It sounds like that is what the LFS has.

If you do come down, I'm sure I can be persuaded to throw in a sponge filter from one of my tanks =)

[wilddiscuss]

=) I meant that the sponge should come from a tank holding south american fish. It sounds like that is what the LFS has.

If you do come down, I'm sure I can be persuaded to throw in a sponge filter from one of my tanks =)

Lol. Thanks :) that sounds great. 4 hours though. I might have to take a day off to do that. Thanks for all your help :)

Todd