Please help with injured Discus.

[CelticMyst]

Hello, I am a newbie here with a Discus tank. Im writing in the hopes that someone will lead me in the right direction on what type of medication I should go out and get asap. I am filling out the quesitionaire below with hopefully information that will help with the diagnoses of the problem. Thank you, ~ kate




Disease Questionnaire - please complete

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Please complete the questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste)

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started
My young Discus, Casper is sick. It started yesterday when I saw him dart and jump so fast that he hit the top of the canopy. This was followed by another young Discus, named lucy lemon that attacked Casper. She has been very aggressive towards casper. He was by the heater when it happened, and I presummed that he was hit or butted against the heater and the pain caused him to spazz and dart like he did. He has been staying in the corner of the tank since it happened. The heater itself is very hot, when I was cleanning the tank once it burnt me when I came too close.




2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)


I noticed a white patch under his chin, that could be a burn mark. Like when we burn ourselves, the skin turns white. It is a grey coloring today. His eyes are clear, his breathing is normal, tho he is acting weak and sometimes will lay on his side.



3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

I have not used any medications yet.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

55 gal tank, cycled for 6 months. I have 6 Discus that range in size from about 2.5 inches to 4 inches. I also have 6 cardinal tetras in the tank with them.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

6 months running, gravel.Live amazon sword plants, driftwood and pink quartz rocks in the tank. I do not age my water. I change 50% water every three days. I use Prime with wc's. I vacuum thoroughly.

6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __84*___

- ph ___6.0__

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading 0____

- nitrate reading __10__

- well water __yes__

- municipal water ____

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

no, none in the last month.


I hope this information helps. I am thinking of going out to get some maracyn Plus, but do not have a quarantine tank, and would have to treat the whole tank and all the other fish as well. Is there any treatment that will not harm the other fish? Can this problem be a bacterial problem? a parasite problem? Or actually a burn injury? Casper is so weak.. Im not sure he is going to make it thru the day. Please help asap... I really care about my fish and he is one of my favorites.
thank you, kate

[CelticMyst]

Well knowing that I needed to do something for this poor guy, as Casper was floating to the filter tube. I put him in a breeder net that is 5x5x6 netted box on the tank. I treated the tank with API stress coat and added two pouches of Maracyn. Im hoping that it will start to help with the healing..
With no advice for me.. I had to make a choice of what to do and every minute is another one that he is not getting the help that he needs from me.
thanks anyway, kate

[kaceyo]

Kate,
generaly when a fish is sick you do have time to gather info, give people a chance to respond to your post and decide what treatment you want to use. Often the worst thing you can do is to franticly add meds. I completely understand your feeling like you need to do something right now and it's hard to see your fish hurting and not try to do something for it. But it is much better to sit back, calm down a bit and think things thru. If the fish is so sick that 2 hrs will make a big difference in it's chances then it mosy likely won't make it anyways.
The Stress coat probably made things worse as when a fish is sick it needs the water to be as clean and chemical free as possible. Adding antibiotics is the last thing you want to do in these cases and then only when all other options have been exausted. You'll deffinetly want to increase the WC's to daily and maybe do up to 50% at a time.
It may have knocked him a bit silly when he hit the lid and that alone could account for his problem staying upright. I would do a major WC right away and put a divider in the tank so he's not getting picked on. Keeping him in the breeder net will be very stressfull on him. Keep an eye on him and watch for anything unusual in his behavior for the next 24hrs to see if he's getting better, worse or staying the same.
I'm sure others will be along to help and remember to always be patient when dealing with our finny friends.

Kacey

[Polar_Bear]

Kate,
Cease the Stress Coat and up your water changes to at least 50% every day for a week or so, nothing else need be done to treat this IMO. If you are using City Water be sure to add enough of a good de-chlorinator to mitigate chlorine/chloramine damage. If you feel you must add something, use salt at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons of water and replace amount taken out with the water changes.

[Polar_Bear]

Kacey,
Apparently you and I posted at the same time.

Kate,
I agree with Kacey 100%, which I guess is pretty obvious.

[kaceyo]

Larry,
Yeah, I hate when that happens, LOL!

[Graham]

Kate just to give you an example of a fish spazzing out, read this thread. The fish is completely fine and back to normal colour 12 days later...nothing including salt was added. We sometimes kill them with kindness

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=59219

[CelticMyst]

Thank you Kaceyo & Polar Bear for your advice.
I was at a panic, as I love my Discus and Casper is my favorite little guy. I just didnt know what to do. Your right, I should have stepped back, took a deep breath and calmed down. Then on to trying to figure out what is wrong with a clear head and some good advice.
After seeing Casper float toward the filter tube and get stuck there by the current the only thing I could do was to put him in the breeder box attached to the side of the tank, at least he was still in the same tank with his buddies. Yesterday afternoon he was flat on his side at the bottom and I thought that was the end of him. An hour later he was back upright and swimming in place. I left him in there over night so that he can get some strength back. This morning I took him out of the box and he is swimming with the others. I do not know if the stress coat or the maracyn helped him or not. But today I will be doing a 50% water change and will try and get rid of the maracyn as suggested. So you do not advise stress coat for Discus fish? I know that it is used on other tropicals.
My water is on a well, and I use Prime anyway at every wc. That is the only additives I put in the water.
Thank you for your help.. I really appreciate it!

Graham~ Thank you for the link, I checked it out. Interesting. Maybe my Casper was stunned, he looks like he is doing better now. Just watching that grey/white spot under his chin. I really wonder what that is? Maybe he injured himself on the canopy and not the heater as I had guessed?

Keeping my fingers crossed that he makes it. Thanks again for all your help!This is a wonderful site that was recommanded to me by another Discus owner. I have been doing a lot of reading here and doing my research. :fish:
~ kate

[CelticMyst]

Well came home from errands and Casper was stuck to the filter tube again. So I scooped him up gently and put him back into the breeder net/box. Its all I can do, I dont want him to get stuck again. I think he may be sick and not injured, hes too weak..
~ kate

[Graham]

Hi Not sure what's going on with the fish but you asked about Stress Coat. Don't use it on any fish for any reason. The product is just a basic de-chlor (Sodium Thiosulfate) and aloe vera extract.

When a fish is stressed they generall produce excess mucus which besides coating the fish also coats thier gills. This cuts down on gas exchange. The Aloe also does the same thing, coats the gills...not something a stressed fish needs.

A bit of salt to help osmoregualtion would be a better idea

Graham

[CelticMyst]

Hi Not sure what's going on with the fish but you asked about Stress Coat. Don't use it on any fish for any reason. The product is just a basic de-chlor (Sodium Thiosulfate) and aloe vera extract.

When a fish is stressed they generall produce excess mucus which besides coating the fish also coats thier gills. This cuts down on gas exchange. The Aloe also does the same thing, coats the gills...not something a stressed fish needs.

A bit of salt to help osmoregualtion would be a better idea

Graham

thank you Graham..
I will make sure not to use the stress coat. Can you tell me what type of salt I should use? And is the formula 1 tablespon per 10g as suggested and I should use 5 tablespoons for the 55 gal tank? Can you tell me what osmoregualtion is?
thanks for your help ~ kate

[Graham]

You can use any kind of salt that you want as long as it doesn't have YPS, yellow prussiate of soda in it as an anti-caking agent...the cheapest is usually the best.


Try using 1 teaspoon pr gallon...that about 3 tablespoons per 10 gallons. This will give you about a 0.1% salinity and help with stress etc

Try this for osmoregulation

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/water/osmoregulation.htm

[first_adam2k]

Ok i was told to use cosher salt wich has the soda in it why can you not use it please let me know asap.

[Kindredspirit]

Adam, I am pretty sure you can use Kosher, but please wait for Graham or Larry or Kacey to confirm, okay?:)

[kaceyo]

I've used Kosher salt many times but I don't remember it having anti cacking agent in it. Rock Salt will work fine and is much cheaper too. Or pickling salt.
HTH

Kacey

[first_adam2k]

all of the salts at the local walmart have an anti-cakeing agent of some sort i just got the cosher cuz thats what i was told would work.

[CelticMyst]

hello..
just wanted to thank everyone for their help with Casper. I wanted to let you know that Casper is doing great once again. I never did use any salt or any more meds in the tank. I put the divider up and let him stay on his own side til he was strong enough and eating again. Which is what happened, he is now swimming around once again with everyone and doing great as if nothing was ever the wrong with him! :)
thanks again for all your support and help with Casper!
~ kate