Blackworm keeper, cleaner by Marc Weiss [Archive]

Seecher

09-22-2007, 08:42 PM

That is because Marc Weiss is a well
known purveyor of unusal products, most with highly exagerated
claims IMO. Some people swear by his products, others like me,
swear at them.

Polar Bear, thank you for your Post. Marc Weiss is certainly one of the most
outspoken members of the discus community in its early years, he has taken
several trips to the Amazon and has come up with several rather controversial
theories and products and, perhaps, has been a thorn underneath the saddle of several
"pillars" of the discus community. That being said what SPECIFICALLY do you
dislike about his products.

http://www.marcweissco.com/

The Internet is the greatest source of information on earth. (I've been active on
the Internet since 1995 and hosted several forums) But I have learned that simply
making accusations are worthless unless they're backed up with personal experiences.
I'm looking forward to your comments.

Seecher
Please forgive contextual errors that I may not have edited out.
I use voice recognition software and sometimes get in to big
of a hurry to post.

Kindredspirit

09-23-2007, 10:07 AM

That is because Marc Weiss is a well known purveyor of unusal products, most with highly exagerated claims IMO. Some people swear by his products, others like me, swear at them.

Hmm....I don't think that is it, Larry.

jspan

09-23-2007, 12:07 PM

I used it and i have used freshwater biozyme works just as good.you can buy the biozyme at most pet shops and it is cheap.

Discus-Hans

09-23-2007, 02:03 PM

I don't use black worms at all, but a dear friend of mine in California got a tip from a Prof. of a University (who knows were he's talking about) to soak the Black worms in full milk for about 15 minutes, raines them with water before feeding, seems to clean them out. Never tried it, but sounds like a good tip,

Hans

kaceyo

09-23-2007, 02:59 PM

Sounds like a good way to make an already expensive product even more expensive with little return for your money. You could put enough enzymes, nutrients etc into your beefheart mix to make up for the loss in CBW's many times over for far less money. JMO.

Kacey

Seecher

09-23-2007, 04:16 PM

I used it and i have used freshwater biozyme
works just as good.you can buy the biozyme at most pet shops and
it is cheap.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3991&N=2004+112990

Good info.

Looks like 'Cycle' could do the same thing.

Hans, thanks for the milk info. I'll check that out.

Thanks

brewmaster15

09-23-2007, 05:09 PM

Hi all,
I don't quite understand why this product is needed? If theres waste products to be broken down in a black worm container.. my first choice would be to rinse the cbw... with water.... not try to break down the waste by adding something.. Its just easier and more efficient to flush them with lots of clean cold water, IMO.

And as for the claim that this product would replenish the nutritive value of the blackworms... without knowing whats in it, its hard to validate...but my experiences and research . leave me to believe that Blackworms feed on detritus and various micro-organisms... I would think that adding some powdered fishfood a short while before a rinse ( maybe an hour) would suffice... honestly though...I doubt (opinion) that the nutritive aspects of the blackworms decreases much in the short time hobbyists have these worms.....no proof there...just subjective evidence based on how fry grow when fed CBW and how pairs spawn.

hth,
al

ps.. these are my opinions I have not fed blackworms for about 4 years now...

White Worm

09-23-2007, 10:05 PM

why even bother with blackworms since there is obviously hazards involved? White worms are clean, eat all the good things you feed them, are easy to keep, dont pose any hazards, live nicely and neatly in a plastic container in regular soil and they reproduce quickly for plenty of food for fish. This thing sounds like too much work and a waste of money.....much like black worms.

White Worm

09-23-2007, 10:06 PM

Hmm....I don't think that is it, Larry.

American Breeder?

Kindredspirit

09-24-2007, 01:26 AM

YES! I knew it! Is it the one and the same, Mike?

Kindredspirit

09-24-2007, 01:27 AM

ps.. these are my opinions I have not fed blackworms for about 4 years now...

Why is that, Al? I thought you were a big advocate of the cbw?

Seecher

09-24-2007, 03:16 AM

why even bother with blackworms since there is obviously hazards involved?

What "0bviose hazards" have you had?

brewmaster15

09-24-2007, 04:17 AM

Why is that, Al? I thought you were a big advocate of the cbw?

Multiple reasons Marie,

1) they aren't necessary to raise and keep beautiful discus

2) they are expensive and theres other alternatives that are IMO, acceptible...such as red wigglers.

3) they are not problem free.. I'm on the east coast... and I have hard a hard time getting healthy CBWs here from the west coast.... which can be a big problem if they are fed to fish...IME.

4) Discus get spoiled on them and won't eat well of other foods.

I don't believe that they are a problem parasite wise.. and I do believe that they are a great food for raising fry and a great conditioning food for breeding... That said... they aren't a necessity and quite honestly I'd rather buy more discus than shell out money for a food that really isn't needed.:D

-al

White Worm

09-24-2007, 04:19 AM

What "0bviose hazards" have you had?

Why do they need to be thoroughly cleaned/rinsed before use? Why does everyone advise getting them to expell everything before they are used? Why bother if there is nothing wrong with them. I have used them a couple of times and now I wouldnt take the chance because of what I have heard from many who have used them. Some say they have had no problems and some say they have. Even the ones who use them will tell you to make sure you get them from a good supplier and make sure they are kept clean and rinsed before use. More work than needed and there are just as good live foods that dont have a potential problem with getting your fish sick. The benefit is not worth the effort/chance when it is easier, cheaper and safer to feed other worms (white worms) with just as good of nutrients if not better. I havent had a problem personally but I'll not take the chance, thanks.

Kindredspirit

09-24-2007, 07:28 PM

Multiple reasons Marie,

1) they aren't necessary to raise and keep beautiful discus

2) they are expensive and theres other alternatives that are IMO, acceptible...such as red wigglers.

3) they are not problem free.. I'm on the east coast... and I have hard a hard time getting healthy CBWs here from the west coast.... which can be a big problem if they are fed to fish...IME.

4) Discus get spoiled on them and won't eat well of other foods.

I don't believe that they are a problem parasite wise.. and I do believe that they are a great food for raising fry and a great conditioning food for breeding... That said... they aren't a necessity and quite honestly I'd rather buy more discus than shell out money for a food that really isn't needed.:D

-al

Wow Al...I never knew you felt this way, talk about clueless:(

~ Paul is pretty much agasint them as well ~

Well I feel better! I have not fed them in so long and now...I am not going to:).....Even though I would get them from Dan as he is pretty close to Sacramento...

...I'm done.

Now...Red Wigglers...just the thought of them ugh!...Where would I get them, Al? Bait shop? Discus so love live food!

brewmaster15

09-24-2007, 07:54 PM

Marie,
I'm not against them per say.. just not worth it from my point of view..and finances.:)

Now...Red Wigglers...just the thought of themugh!...Where would I get them, Al? Bait shop? Discus so love live food! kazarie.com is where I get mine...

-al

Kindredspirit

09-24-2007, 08:42 PM

kazarie.com is where I get mine...

-al

I am there now, Al ~ do you think that 1 pound is too much? I know nothing about these suckers ~ are they refrigerated? I sent an email for some additional care info...

Shipping costs suck:(

brewmaster15

09-25-2007, 03:08 AM

HI Marie,
When you look at the cost of the red wigglers...keep in mind...this is a type of live food that you can easily raise and keep a producing culture going.

I'd go for the 2 lbs and set up a culture box or two in the garage... these worms will reproduce like crazy if taken good care of.

Theres plenty of info on the web and on the forum on red wiggler care and culture.

hth,
al

Kindredspirit

09-25-2007, 09:25 AM

Oh My....raise them? You have got to be kidding? Al, do I have to cut these guys down to smaller pieces before I feed them?.....after I get them?

Frank told me that they are big and thick like earthworms....?

brewmaster15

09-26-2007, 08:06 AM

Marie,
They are not big like earthworms... and adult fish can easily handle red wigglers. Your fish should have no problems with them..

Do a search in the food section of the forum and you'll get all the info you need on rearing them.. Its actually a piece of cake..:)

-al

Kindredspirit

09-26-2007, 08:13 AM

Okay! I'm on it:)

Thanks Al! I will purchase some....and maybe ~ raise them ~ but the thought of raising anything that slithers other than snakes, that I adore, I don't think so:)

brewmaster15

09-26-2007, 09:14 AM

Marie,

Talk To Liz, She raises them.

-al

Kindredspirit

09-26-2007, 10:18 AM

I will, Al ~ thanks!

tonymaccs

10-06-2007, 07:28 AM

It must be good stuff- all the worms on the packaging have got big smiles.

LizStreithorst

10-06-2007, 09:27 AM

Marie, I can give you a first hand demonstration of how it's done when you visit in Feb. If they don't gross you out too badly I'll send you home with enough to get your culture started.

Kindredspirit

10-07-2007, 08:15 AM

If they don't gross you out too badly I'll send you home with enough to get your culture started.

Like......carry them on the plane? Sitting next to me? I hate to fly so much and you want my sole companion to be worms?

O**M**G**!!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_12_1.gif

poconogal

10-14-2007, 08:25 AM

Like......carry them on the plane? Sitting next to me? I hate to fly so much and you want my sole companion to be worms?

O**M**G**!!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_12_1.gif
Oh Marie, you got me hysterical... "my sole companiion to be worms?? That really struck me funny...

Did you order the red wigglers? I was looking for a place to buy them, I don't have the time or inclination to raise them, just another thing to care for, to me, but I would like to buy them the way I buy CBW from Dan!

Kindredspirit

10-14-2007, 08:37 AM

Oh Marie, you got me hysterical... "my sole companiion to be worms?? That really struck me funny...

I think I am following you! lol! Or...the other way around:) Ugh, I would never in a kazillion years raise those slimy lil suckers! And...aren't red wigglers a lot thicker? Hell No ~ They would get out of whatever I had them growing in and be everywhere....that happened to Frank with his white worm ordeal! I was on the phone with him when he found them!!! And I keep seeing a picture that Joe had of his and Mike.....no no no!

but I would like to buy them the way I buy CBW from Dan!

That's right! Dan has them as well! Great idea, woman! I never found them, actually I never really tried ~ but I still want them....I think I will get them from Dan as well...thanks!

Hey Connie, if I take a pic of these worms in my lfs, that they state are Tubiflex ( spelled that wrong, huh? I hate that word! ) I swear I think that they are cbw ~ you can tell me! You are so good at that:)

poconogal

10-14-2007, 08:41 AM

That's right! Dan has them as well! Great idea, woman! I never found them, actually I never really tried ~ but I still want them....I think I will get them from Dan as well...thanks!

Hey Connie, if I take a pic of these worms in my lfs, that they state are Tubiflex ( spelled that wrong, huh? I hate that word! ) I swear I think that they are cbw ~ you can tell me! You are so good at that:)
Oh, I didn't know Dan had them, does he? I'm going to check.

Marie, its easy to tell CBW from TubiFEX :D

Tubifex are thread like, they are that skinny. CBW are thicker. If what the LFS is selling looks like threads or hairs all bunched up, they are Tubifex.

Kindredspirit

10-14-2007, 08:43 AM

Oh, I didn't know Dan had them, does he? I'm going to check.

Well let me know, chica:) I bet he does!

Seecher

10-15-2007, 08:08 PM

I used it and i have used freshwater biozyme
works just as good.you can buy the biozyme at most pet shops
and it is cheap.

Thank you jspan, I will definitely give this a try.

The "Black worm keeper, cleaner by Marc Weiss" invigorated the
black worms and kept them very healthy, however, it intended
to solidify their waste into small chunks that actually was heavier
than they are, so it was difficult to pour it off in the regular rinsing
procedure. My opinion, after giving it an honest try, is the product
is not worth the time, effort and money. However, your mileage
may vary. :)