Surprise! Brown Discus Fry!

[Darter02]

I had posted this on the thread about my planted Discus tank, but I guess I should have just posted it here instead.

The basics are, I have a 75g, planted aquarium with 4 Brown Discus and a bunch of other South American fish. Details and all that can be seen here: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=56712

If you read the whole thing, you’ll see I am doing the best I can and learning a lot.

Well, I must be doing something right, because on Sunday morning I discovered a large cluster of “wriggles.” Needless to say, I was SHOCKED! I posted all over looking for advice and did a lot of reading online ASAP.

These two articles really helped me.
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/breeding/discus.php
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/discusfish/breeding.php

I also read a lot of threads here.

Here are the steps I have taken so far.

1. Isolated the parents on one side of the aquarium by fashioning a mesh net that block it off. A couple of Pencilfish and a few cories are still over there, but I cannot catch them due to the very thick vegetation.

2. Covered the filter intake on that side with a fine, nylon mesh.

3. When a few of the wrigglers swam free, I observed the male promptly eat them. I made sure he was not just taking them in and moving them back. The female was doing that, catching free swimmers and moving them back. I moved the male over to the other side of the mesh.

4. I did a lot of research on feeding baby brine shrimp, and am picking up a batch of eggs tonight and setting things up to produce fry. Since I already have all the components at home, I will try this method: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_brineshrimp_hatchery.php

5. I skipped my routine water change, and plant trimming.

Before retiring for the night, I saw that some of the fry where starting to swim near the mother. If they got too far away, she’d suck them in and place them on the stump. As I write this, I have no idea what is going on in there. It was still dark when I left for work, I didn’t want to turn on the lights and risk shocking the fish.

So, IF they are still alive when I get home, I guess I should expect them to be swimming near her.

Should I let the male back over and see if he eats them?

When should I start feeding brine shrimp? Should I also feed them liquefied beef heart, and if so, just what IS liquefied beef heart?

When should I start water changes again?

I have a 10g, isolation tank that has been running as long as this one. There have not been any fish in it for months. The conditions are basically identical; it just has green water algae. Should I plan on moving any survivors here when they are weaned from mother’s slime coat? I don’t think I have the time, or resources, to purchased a larger tank and condition it.

Basically, am I doing the right things? Any advice would be great!

Now for some photos…

This is the tank just after a major trim and removing a lot of out of control foreground plants.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1315/1379288495_b7320cc2c1_o.jpg
The 4th discus is behind all the myaca to the right. The spawn happened on the stump, just in front of the myaca.

Brown Discus (at least, I think it’s what this is… they were all given to me, with no info)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1323/1463828895_4e6da4304b_o.jpg
This is not one of the parents, but is the number two male. The parents are the number 1 male, and what I think is the only female (and the smallest) in the tank.

These are the fry this past Sunday, right after I noticed them for the first time.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1131/1463032075_f6f38e8db5_o.jpg
I have no later photos, they have all been moved to the underside of a crypt plant, where it’s hard to see them. The free swimmers are too small to shoot as they move.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Kick Butt! SWEET SWEET SWEET!

[Darter02]

Dang, I just returned home, brine shrimp egss in hand, to find she (or someone else) has eaten all the fry. Perhaps IF they do it again, I will be better prepared.

Any tips or advice is most appreciated, just in case...

[dvarnay]

I don't know if anyone has every successfully raised fry in a community tank but good luck. Two things if you can separate the breeding pair in their own tank you are more likely to have success and leave a night light on so that the fry don't get lost during the night. And also with the lights on the parents can defend the eggs better. Again good luck.

[Darren's Discus]

It's always hard to raise fry in a community tank better off to move the pair to their own tank,awesome pictures of the fry all the best with them in the future.


cheers

[doc3toes]

I have a 300g 'planted' with several pairs. They breed all the time (somebody weekly) and a get to the free swimming stage, then disappear. My advise is listen to everyone here - if you want to try to raise some fry, then put the 2 parents in a 29g breeding setup. worked easily for me. Also, nice photos. that looks like a pretty good spawn in terms of numbers. good luck

[renae]

Hi, I read through your other thread and wow you are doing an awesome job,love the pictures,and love your fish,just wanted to say that...congrats on the fry even though they are gone,it must've felt very rewarding for you.

[Darter02]

My wife will KILL me, especially since we have a baby of our own due in 8 weeks, BUT can anyone here point me in the direction of good online articles about setting up a breeding tank?

[Ben75]

Awesome looking planted tank & great looking browns, congrats on the fry. Congrats on the human fry aswell that is on its way.
Regards,

[phidelt85]

Darter, search here on simply. All you need is 30-40 gallon tank, sponge filter and heater.

[vedderjam]

i know some of the most reputable breeders breed their fish in 20s.

[Darter02]

Right now, my wife and I are very busy nesting ourselves, with a baby girl due in a few weeks. Needless to say, I have not had the time to run out and buy a new tank or other equipment to breed these fish in. I really, really want to but the money and time goes to my daughter first.

That being said, my discus spawned again. This time they laid fewer eggs, all of them onto the broad leaf of my Ozelot Sword plant. I noticed the eggs as I was catching up on my trimming and water change, which I’d skipped the week before due to all the excitement with the first spawn.

As you can see, it really grew dense FAST!
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2416/1534281443_4f0618a885_o.jpg
You can also see the Alpha male (right) driving off the Beta male (left) from the eggs.

Ok, I figured while I had the water level low I’d make a new barrier, even if the odds were good they’d not make it. My wife even helped me by spotting fish in the vegetation so I could herd them all over to one side. The cories and the medusa were especially tricky to move!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2302/1559144075_f7766ad86b_o.jpg
How do you like my super fancy tank divider? Doesn’t the rolled up towel just make you crazy??? It sure does me! LOL

I was surprised when the eggs hatched; here they are on day two after hatching.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2028/1560020946_2ac7e3c50b_o.jpg

Today I have a bunch of free swimmers around both adults. It’s the FIRST day they’ve done this.

So, when DO I start feeding them BBS???

(I have more photos, I just need to process them, maybe tomorrow, and then I will post them too.)

[brewmaster15]

Congratulations!!:)

I let the parents raise them a few days and usually introduce the BBS after about the 4th day free swimming..

Have fun..Its a beautiful sight and breeding wilds is an awesome accomplishment.:)

-al


ps...Also congrats on the upcoming birth.....now THAT is special!!;):D

[cschwaderer]

Wow - what an amazingly beautiful tank! A few comments from various posts and replies to this thread:

1. I always can't help thinking about the ironny when here we are doing everything humanly possible to give the fry the absolute best chance at survival possible and Discus in the wild are not yet an extinct species - it makes you ponder how in the world they do it in the wild, huh! :D I always get these visions in my head of the Amazonians diligently looking for pairs in the Amazon and netting them off, starting the baby brine shrimp cultures, etc. It's got to be the only way they make it in the wild?!? ;)

2. Sometimes it just takes 3-4 spawns for the parents to figure things out. Your male may not be eating the fry - I've seen parents mouth fry for 3-4 minutes before spitting it out. They mouth the fry for a bit, then things stop and they breath normally. Just when you're sure he's eaten the fry, he spits it out.

3. If you don't have time to mess with the pair in a breeding tank, just enjoy what's going on in your community tank. I'll bet one of the batches will stick. Fry grow quickly, then if you take that divider out after a week or so of free-swimming, what a truly amazing sight you'll have!!

4. I've noticed that after the fry have started "free-swimming", it will still be up to 8-12 hours before they attach to the parents. At this "intermediate" time, you'll see an occasional fry, two, or three at the parents' sides, then they'll flit around and/or the parents will catch them and spit them back where they are attempting to corral them. At this point, you may think the batch is gone - mine usually get huddled on the ground somewhere. AT that point I try to feed my pair directly over this mass of fry. When they strike at the food, I think the striking through the water is similar to the shimmying experienced pairs make that cause the fry to swim up and attach. So you might want to try that.

5. Fry don't see well and will go toward dark things. The good news is you've got brown discus. The bad news is that you've got a lot of dark (albeit beautiful!) stuff in that tank. As the parents get better, they'll probably figure it out, even in the community tank.

6. Don't worry - once pairs start spawning, you've got at least 2 more years (probably more like 3 or 4) of very good productivity out of that pair and probably more. Imagine that little girl of yours waddling over to your fish tank and throwing her toys in (which is what I came home to find from my twin boys one day!). At that point, you can still set up a breeding tank and have lots of batches to mess around with at that point even. So don't stress over the fry in the community tank - just see how the fish deal with the situation and keep us informed!

7. I put my pairs in a 20 gallon tank at 84 degrees with a sponge filter and a tile to breed on. That's it. Feed, change water, and they do the rest.

Great job and have fun watching them - I'm jealous!

Curt

[Darter02]

Here is the mother a few days ago, after moving her fry to the underside of a leaf.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2310/1587528962_30cfa68370_o.jpg

This is a close up of the fry clinging to the leaf.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2068/1586641695_0e2f6699f4_o.jpg

More to come soon. I just offloaded my camera card with the photos of the "free swimmers" around the parents. I'll post as soon as I process them...

[Condor]

AWESOME!! Beautiful pictures and fish. Makes me remember why I like wilds. Thanks for posting....

Adrian

[Darter02]

Here are some of the fry as "free swimmers." I really don't know how far I can coax things along, but I am trying. Right now, it's a day-by-day effort.

Around their father's eye.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2008/1588350988_57afb566c7_o.jpg

The breeding pair & fry swarm.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2341/1588358988_bbc59759a7_o.jpg

Feeding on father's slime coat.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2239/1587471559_88c3e192ff_o.jpg

Swarming around mother.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2030/1587471729_fa25b97599_o.jpg

[steve.ryall]

Truely an awsome site to see, great photos. Good luck with them, and keep the photos going, I am sure we would all love to see their progress.

Steve
:)

[Lisachromis]

What fanastic pics! Looking great. Congrats all around.

[Kindredspirit]

WOW! I so enjoyed these photos! They are unique to say the least! I love the one with the fry attached to the underside of the leaf........!!

Keep em coming!!

[Kindredspirit]

More to come soon



http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_109v.gif



:D

[April]

i agree..wonderful pics. hope they make it. they got alot further this time anyhow..so by next time they will be pros. congrats also on your new baby.

[dvarnay]

Amazing pictures. What sort of camera & lense are you using to get such close-up's.

Contratulations

[Darter02]

Amazing pictures. What sort of camera & lense are you using to get such close-up's.

Contratulations

The first batch of fry were shot using my old Canon EOS 10D and a 100mm f/2.8 lens (the older, non-USM version). The later photos where shot using my new Canon EOS 40D and the same macro lens. I find myself wishing I had bought some extension tubes! LOL

[Darter02]

I noticed my improvised barrier was falling apart, literally. The cloth material was rotting and covered in algae, which attracted the Siamese Algae Eaters. They were chewing holes in the net, so I knew it was just a matter of time before they made their way through. All it would take is ONE Bleeding Heart to get in the quarantined side and this experiment would be over…

With some ideas from my wife, I fashioned a better tank divider. It’s made from aluminum tubing, plastic mesh used in needlepoint, foam pipe insulation and is all held together with small wire ties. It seems to be doing a better job so far.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2155/1600764499_4be0d4f358_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2346/1601652256_543dfda859_o.jpg

When I checked this AM, before leaving for work, I saw everyone was still alive, so far, so good…

Now, tonight I assemble my brine shrimp hatchery, tomorrow I will put the eggs in. if all goes well, Friday I will start feeding them BBS.

What other foods should I look into getting?

[Darter02]

Seriously, what other foods would be good to start feeding these guys, besides BBS?

:confused:

[Rod]

awesome, great looking tank of discus. I'd love something like it myself one day.

I'd stick to the brine shrimps the initial food, only small amounts initially but 3 or 4 times a day. Once the fry start looking for the shrimp when you approach, time to come out as they are ready. If you were to leave them in too long you will need to feed larger and larger amounts of brineshrimp to satisfy them and your beautiful tank will become very difficult to maintain.

Rod:)

[Darter02]

BUMMER!

The fry were getting bigger and starting to look like fish. Yesterday I witnessed BOTH parents killing them all! UGHHHH….

I hope to get a breeding tank soon!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2104/1636650462_e570d9c995_o.jpg
This is a few days before they ate them all…

[Kindredspirit]

Wow! What a great picture!! Honestly...you are very good with that camera!;)

[rlong]

Hi,
Great Pictures! Keep them comming.

[dishpanhands]

Great pictures..I hate to be the one to add, but to me the parent looks to have a mild case of HITH. Might want to pick up your WC's for awhile and watch them little holes..Great looking tank..makes me want to start a plant tank.

[Don Trinko]

Your tank and fish are absolutly beautifull. If they are breeding you are obviously taking good care of them. There are so many "colerfull" varieties of discus that those that look like wild but are tank raised are sometimes hard to find. Yours are beautifull.

Don T.

[Darter02]

Tonight, a friend is dropping off a 30-gallon tank for me to use a breeding aquarium. I will let you know how things go.

[Darter02]

Great pictures..I hate to be the one to add, but to me the parent looks to have a mild case of HITH. Might want to pick up your WC's for awhile and watch them little holes..Great looking tank..makes me want to start a plant tank.

I had someone else say that once. I try to feed them a varied diet, and I try to keep the water very clean.

What do other people think? Do my fish have "hole in the head" disease, or are their sensor pits "normal" for wild fish?

[Dolphin Dip]

I had someone else say that once. I try to feed them a varied diet, and I try to keep the water very clean.

What do other people think? Do my fish have "hole in the head" disease, or are their sensor pits "normal" for wild fish?

when i first saw your fish about a month ago i thought they were sensor pits..
but we both know i'm not the most experienced discus keeper around here.

[phidelt85]

I think those are just the sensory pits, Darter. I've had this same question before on some of my other cichlids, photographs seem to accentuate the pits and make them look worse than they actually are.

[Kindredspirit]

I totally agree with Jose here! I had this happen to me recently, and I do not agree with the HITH, either. Photos do this all the time, IME.:)

[chanteloup]

How did it go?

[Darter02]

How did it go?

Well I set up a breeding tank, conditioned it, and set up a nursery tank, also conditioning it...

Then, we had a baby girl! So we spawned ourselves! Since then, I have quit my job of 15 years, become a stay at home dad, and learned how to be a parent... and am happier than anytime in my life!


http://www.pbase.com/darter02/image/96742182.jpg

Those tanks are STILL conditioning in the basement! LOL...

As for my discus, they're doing well, though my plants look a little ragged...

http://www.pbase.com/darter02/image/99502130.jpg

[Darren's Discus]

Congratulations on your successful spawn ! tank looks great and your photography skills are still excellent.


cheers

[chanteloup]

Congratulations!! nice too!

[digthemlows]

Awesome!

[plecocicho]

Phenomenal aquarium and you are really good photographer.:D. Best luck with spawning your wilds.