what is so hard about keeping plants?

[vedderjam]

i kep hearing people to learn to keep discus before adding plants in to the equation. Why is that? Ive kept plants in almost all my past tanks and have never had a problem making them flourish and in the meantime keeping my fish healthy... What is the difference when using plants and discus if any? Also, should I use a certain substratefor my plants in a discus aquarium? driftwood ok?

[Polar_Bear]

There is no problem keeping plants and discus together. However discus, especially when young, need pristine water to thrive. This is very difficult to do in a tank with substrate since too much detritus gets into the substrate and plants where it can not be easily removed. This in turn causes the water to deteriorate rapidly, stressing the discus.

[vedderjam]

ok so the issue is plants with yound discus is difficult but if i were to buy some adult for a show tank with plants that is easier? My plan is to buy a groupd of yound discus and grow them together... so i gues the recommendation is to grow them out without plants and move them into a planted tank later?

[Tropical Haven]

You are exactly right, now you are catching on. :D

[vedderjam]

;) im a quick learner

[hboute]

Do discus actually need to be fed several times a day until they are fully grown or can you gradually decrease this as they grow?

[Apistomaster]

If you pot your plants for use in a bare bottom tank then there are none of the difficulties one encounters with a bottom covering substrate. Your grow out tanks need not be bare. A few pieces of wood are fine in such a set up. The important thing is retaining the ability to siphon off debris and this is easy when the potted plants can be moved out of the way. I find going completely bare of plants and such too bleak.

[bavaria36]

I am moving to BB tanks after having kept my wilds in a planted tank to almost a year. In each BB tank I placed piece if driftwood as a centerpoint and it actually makes the setting look pretty good.

Aaron

[Harriett]

Do discus actually need to be fed several times a day until they are fully grown or can you gradually decrease this as they grow?

You will find some variation to feeding schedules with discus among hobbyists, but what I do is this: babies and juvies get fed 5-6 x day until they are about 10-12 months old. I then feed 3 x day until they are about 18 months old. The adults eat 2 x day, generally and I fast them one day a week every week or two. Seems to work. I don't put juveniles into the planted tank until they are at least a year old, frequently older--I don't count on them growing terribly much after that move and I want to maximize the growth potential with all the feedings in BB tanks first.
Best regards,
Harriett

[GrillMaster]

You will find some variation to feeding schedules with discus among hobbyists, but what I do is this: babies and juvies get fed 5-6 x day until they are about 10-12 months old. I then feed 3 x day until they are about 18 months old. The adults eat 2 x day, generally and I fast them one day a week every week or two. Seems to work. I don't put juveniles into the planted tank until they are at least a year old, frequently older--I don't count on them growing terribly much after that move and I want to maximize the growth potential with all the feedings in BB tanks first.
Best regards,
Harriett

Not much more to say. :thumbsup:

Polar bear summed it up good!

Pick a substrate that will not let food an feces fall through. In other words the smaller the better. If the waste can sit on top of the substrate, it will be easier on you when you have to vacuum the tank. Pool sand works well. I use soil master, an that works good as well.

Bottom line like the others have pointed out. Raise your Discus to highlight your planted tank.

Mine have been in quarantine for a year an a half!!

tc
Mark

[hoppinhappa]

I have learned that another reason to not have plants when Discus are young is that if they get sick (which is likely when they are little), some of the medicine you may have to use will kill all of your wonderful plants.

I had large pieces of driftwood in my tank. You can always attach some plants onto the driftwood, and then if you need to medicate you can just take out the wood.

Good luck and have fun!

Harper~

[JeffreyRichard]

There is no problem keeping plants and discus together. However discus, especially when young, need pristine water to thrive. This is very difficult to do in a tank with substrate since too much detritus gets into the substrate and plants where it can not be easily removed. This in turn causes the water to deteriorate rapidly, stressing the discus.

I do not agree that this explanation is completely accurate. While discus DO require clean water ... I'm not going as far to say "pristine" ... tank water can actually be kept "clean" using plants as a natural filter. The problem come when one's goals are to grow large numbers of young fish large quickly ... that requires lots' of food ... which requires lots of cleaning ... and that becomes problematic in a tank with substrait and plants and decorations etc.

Now, if your goals are to have a small population (relative to the bioload of any particular tank) and you don't mind a slow steady growth in your discus, there is no problem raising small discus in a planted tank. I do this now ... I have a 70 gallon tank with 12 discus in it with lots of plants ... minimal water changes (once a week), once a day feedings with frozen BW or Mysis, occasional flake, and a boatload of cories in the tank. Granted, these discus are small but they are healthy.

I could never do this with 3-4 feedings a day and using beefheart.

[Joander123]

it does seem to make sense... what jeffrey is saying. But i sort of disagree with him too, because for discus to grow to there full size even with feeding 4-6 times a day and water changes every day can take a couple of years, i cant imagine how slow and painful the growth of them would be in a tank with a water change once a week and only 1 feeding per day.

Jay

[trinidentist]

I have asked this question on a different thread.
if fish grow throughout their lives and discus live to be ten years.
would not slow growth be more natural and should not the fish achive the same final size after 4-5 years?

[Harriett]

That's a reasonable question, but actually there seems to be a 'magic window' for reaching best growth potential with discus. Given a clean environment [Larry's trademark] and plentiful feedings, discus grow out most quickly the first 6 months or so and then continue to grow well to about a year---if you miss that window with feeds of say 1-3 x a day, you will still get some growth, but at a year you will have 4" fish instead of 6" fish. Discus that are about 6" or so at a year and are still fed 2-3 x day for a while frequently become 7" fish or sometimes better over the years. Health is the defining factor, but if you want them to fill out to the largest and best looking discus they can be, go the extra mile and feed plentifully with high quality food for the first 12-18 months. and change water like crazy.
Best regards,
Harriett

[SuAsati]

Take BIG fish quit feeding. months later it goes shrink.
now feed again it grow full size.
Give good food and good water fish grow full size plant
or no plant. i grow 7inch fish with one a
month water change. feed 2 time a day sometime I forget.

[digthemlows]

I'm just getting back into all of this, but 10/15 years ago I kept 6 discus in a 55 gallon with a small canister filter and an undergravel filter with very large gravel, a big lava rock in the center and swords, that grew and grew. I did 20% water changes once a week........The discus were probably 5.5" to 6" after 2 years and I ended up with 2 breeding pairs that on the second round gave me 91 babies that made it to the size of a quarter (after which I sold them because it was more work than I was looking for) I kept 8 of the babies and raised them to about 5" with water changes every 30days or so and never had problems. Now I'm sure I was somewhat lucky, and my tap water at the time came out at 6.4 for PH........I also didn't have the internet to get good advice from and I'm sure things would have been easier, bigger, and brighter.......

[GrillMaster]

I had to post this in regards to Polor Bear, Jeffery, an Larry's comments.

If you have a very large tank planted heavily with a minimal amount of discus that are eating veraciously. You can actually feed the crap out of em (4-6 times a day) an feed the plants at the same time dosing absolutely nothing.

This being said, I am talking about 1 discus per 20 gallons with alot of plants. Alot of plants being the key. The food an waste will fert the plants, an 50% WC's once a week will keep the N03, an P04 down.

So in retrospect you are all right. It boils down to the tank size, the fish load, the plant load, an even the lighting.

Smaller fish tanks just dont have this luxury. Waste builds up just to quick for this to be a reality.

The pic of my 75G tank is fairly heavily planted. I have a huge fish load in it at the moment. The balance in this tank is great. I feed heavily, an do not dose anything. I dont have discus in this tank though. Would I put 5-6 juvies in it? Yes I would, if they were the only ones in it with maybe a little school of neons or whatever. They however would outgrow the tank pretty quick.

Now lets say ya have a 90G tank...This scenario would work great IMO. The plants are gonna get fed, and the discus have room to grow.

As long as there is a maintained balance in a heavily planted tank, growing juvies in it should work out ok as long as the tank is large enough to support both the plants and the Discus...

tc
Mark

[GrillMaster]

I guess I forgot the pic...:o