TDS with WC

[crystalview]

I know that I can remove TDS with frequent WC but doesn't a over sized flow control canister filter or a diatom filter also remove a lot of TDS. The TDS is one of the many reasons we do WC but would running a canister and DE filter help a lot also? If the current could be kept at a lower flow rate for the discus. When I vac once a week I use a magnum hot shot extra fine filter and this should also help with the TDS along with the particles we can see.
Any thoughts on this?

[Don Trinko]

TDS is Total disolved Solids. Normal filters will not remove TDS. Water changes will depend on the water source.If that is tap water the TDS of your tap will average with what is in your tank. The same is true with RO but RO TDS will be low.( mine is 12 to 22) Your tap TDS depends on your area and the source of the water. The only good way to find out is to test it.
My tap is typicaly TDS of 750. Whwn I mix this with RO I get 350 to 400. Any meds or other chemicals you add to your tank will raise the TDS. Don T.

[crystalview]

Do You have the formula to test TDS? I can't seem to find mine now. Thanks

[devonpond]

What makes up TDS are tiny molecular, ionized or micro-granular - sized inorganic and organic substances. The filters you describe won't decrease TDS.

There is no formula to estimate TDS, it has to be measured with a probe.

[crystalview]

I live in the mountains and our water company said the water Tap has 36 TDS. So How long would an average stock 55g take to have high TDS's? Or is that a unknown

[Don Trinko]

I think that is unknown. Buckeye supply has a TDS meter for abought $30. As far as I know the meter is the only way to know for sure.
Don T.

[Graham]

There are way too many variables to sayhow long it takes for water to get high TDS. ...fish load, amounts fed, type of foods, vacuming, water changes...anything that can dissolve in water adds to it.

it does take a meter to measure it

[crystalview]

I know that water Parameters are why we change the water so much. When I do bi-weekly or every week wc. My numbers are 0, 0, 0-.4. I assume that the TDS's are also including in the reasoning behind the more frequent wc. So If I had a $30 meter is that could I base all of the above on my choice of weekly wc and be ok? I have a small bubble wall for displacement.

[RAVEN]

Im confused about this whole TDS'S thing now too lol!

[Polar_Bear]

Im confused about this whole TDS'S thing now too lol!

As well you should be given the answers above. TDS is a measure of INorganic molecules ONLY. In other words it measures dissolved minerals in the water column. It has absolutely nothing to do with organics. Your water does not become harder due to fish load or feeding, but can become harder due to transpiration.
btw 36 TDS is a meaningless statement. 36 can either be very low hardness as in 36 ppm (mg/l) TDS, or very hard, as in 36 GH TDS. I suspect yours is 36 ppm TDS and is very soft, being about 2 GH, so you have no need to make it softer.

A TDS meter is really a "conductivity" meter which measures how easily an electrical charge is able to travel through a given distance of water. The easier it can travel, the harder your water is. Organics have no charge so do not play into it's measurements, only inorganics (minerals) do.

[Apistomaster]

I live in the mountains and our water company said the water Tap has 36 TDS. So How long would an average stock 55g take to have high TDS's? Or is that a unknown

With water like yours all you need to do is frequent large water changes and it will remain well within ideal parameters for discus keeping or breeding. I don't think you realize how fortunate you are to have water as soft as yours is.

[Apistomaster]

Im confused about this whole TDS'S thing now too lol!
It is simple. TDS is Total Dissolved Solids. These are molecules or ions of every substance the water has dissolved from the surrounding geology. The most important of these with regard to discus are calcium carbonate and magnesium sulfate. These make up the temporary and permanent hardness of your water. Unless you live in an area of peculiar geology all other dissolved minerals will only be present in only trace amounts and not of much importance to fish keeping or breeding. Those that are harmful would include heavy metals like lead or arsenic. Do you live in a mining area? That is where these contaminants are most frequently found in the water.
The EPA and Canadian equivalent have strict guide lines as to what is allowable so if they certify your water as safe to drink with regard to heavy metals then they are not going to affect your fish.
Call your water department and request their current water analysis. It is the best and cheapest way to know exactly what is in your water and to what extent. This test report is always free.
Having a TDS/Conductivity meter is always a good accessory to have in your inventory. TDS/EC are just two different readings that measure the same thing using different units of measure and most meters give results in both units.

[Graham]

As well you should be given the answers above. TDS is a measure of INorganic molecules ONLY. In other words it measures dissolved minerals in the water column. It has absolutely nothing to do with organics. Your water does not become harder due to fish load or feeding, but can become harder due to transpiration.
btw 36 TDS is a meaningless statement. 36 can either be very low hardness as in 36 ppm (mg/l) TDS, or very hard, as in 36 GH TDS. I suspect yours is 36 ppm TDS and is very soft, being about 2 GH, so you have no need to make it softer.

A TDS meter is really a "conductivity" meter which measures how easily an electrical charge is able to travel through a given distance of water. The easier it can travel, the harder your water is. Organics have no charge so do not play into it's measurements, only inorganics (minerals) do.





Jees Larry it's not just inorganics, but anything that was once solid but is now dissolved at a molecular level........ but have you checked the back of the fish food can lately...Hmm lets see.....besides the organics.... solids... we have forms of calcium, phosphates,sodium, manganese, iron, sulfates, zinc...think they dissappear when they get eaten.


Wiki

Total dissolved solids (often abbreviated TDS) is an expression for the combined content of all inorganic and organic substances contained in a liquid which are present in a molecular, ionized or micro-granular (colloidal sol) suspended form. Generally the operational definition is that the solids must be small enough to survive filtration through a sieve size of two micrometres. Total dissolved solids are normally only discussed for freshwater systems, since salinity comprises some of the ions constituting the definition of TDS. The principal application of TDS is in the study of water quality for streams, rivers and lakes, although TDS is generally considered not as a primary pollutant (e.g. it is not deemed to be associated with health effects), but it is rather used as an indication of aesthetic characteristics of drinking water and as an aggregate indicator of presence of a broad array of chemical contaminants.



http://www.water-research.net/totaldissolvedsolids.htm

Water is a good solvent and picks up impurities easily. Pure water -- tasteless, colorless, and odorless -- is often called the universal solvent. Dissolved solids" refer to any minerals, salts, metals, cations or anions dissolved in water. Total dissolved solids (TDS) comprise inorganic salts (principally calcium, magnesium, potassium, sodium, bicarbonates, chlorides and sulfates) and some small amounts of organic matter that are dissolved in water.



http://www.watersystemscouncil.org/VAiWebDocs/WSCDocs/2010920TDS_FINAL.pdf

What are Total Dissolved Solids?
The expression, “total dissolved solids” (TDS), refers to the total amount of all inorganic and organic substances – including minerals, salts, metals, cations or anions – that are dispersed within a volume of water. By definition, the solids must be small enough to be filtered through a sieve measuring 2 micrometers. TDS concentrations are used to evaluate the quality of freshwater systems. TDS concentrations are equal to the sum of positively charged ions (cations) and negatively charged ions (anions) in the water.
Sources for TDS include agricultural run-off, urban run-off, industrial wastewater, sewage, and natural sources such as leaves, silt, plankton, and rocks. Piping or plumbing may also release metals into the water.



Need a few more?

[Apistomaster]

Hi Graham,
I think you have some idea that I am aware of what the total picture of TDS entails. I just don't see how covering every potential substance that is present in trace amounts is very relevant if the starting water is low in TDS and a regime of large and frequent water changes is being implemented as is typical for discus keeping although all the detailed information you posted does help elucidate that water quality is not a simple subject.
I just try to tailor my responses to my perceived level of what the knowledge of a questioning poster is. A detailed analysis of the water was never posted but using the principle of Occam's razor I chose to use the simpler explanation in my response.
The very high level of TDS interpretation seemed the most unlikely situation being addressed.

[Graham]

Larry In my post #7 all I was trying to do was explain that there are many variables that affect the TDS number and the water quality that goes with it. If water changes are not done then that number will climb...if regular decent water changes are done with low TDS's then the water source will be the constant base line number.

In all cases though TDS in water includes some organic along with the in-organic, regardless of the source of the water...to dismiss organics is misleading.


Raven was confused and Larry dismissed my response instead of trying to expalin in detail, if he knew, exactly what TDS are...that confuses even more

I won't dumb down an answer, I'll explain to the poster more if I have to .

G

[Apistomaster]

If there is very little in the water in the first place and one makes the traditional water changes it doesn't really have to be made complicated. That isn't really "dumbing down" as much as it is focusing on what is the most important for discus keeping/breeding which in this thread is that the OP's water is great for discus.

I would just be glad to have that kind of water out of the tap for my discus keeping but I don't so I have dilute it with RO water for my breeding tanks.