Lying Flat on the bottom of the tank, help?!

[howwiwowie]

Hi There,

I did a routine 50 % water change of my 40G breeder tanks yesterday afternoon. It is a bare bottom tank and it contains floating plants and java fern. There is only one 6 inche blue turq in the tank and eating like crazy before I changed the water. This morning I found the fish is laying flat on the bottom of the tank. The fish does not look dark, no stress bar, breathing regularly and just cant stand up straight. I immediately did another 50% water change. and its still laying on the bottom now. I was wondering anyone has any suggestion for me to treat the fish?

The tank has only one blue turq since there is another one died about a month ago while its swimming around and around and jump out of the tank. I did antibiotic treatment (erythromycin) after that and this one seems to hold up ok. no signs of anything. Until yesterday water change. Do you think this floating flat is the same cause for the previous death? or simply its just something in the tap water (I use aged tap water) since we had massive rain last two days.

Many Thanks!

Howard

[mikel]

Do you know if there is cgloromine added to your water? i assume there are in mine, and I use Prime or Amquil plus for all water added to my tank. Yu might want to try this. mike

[mikel]

meant "chloramines"..sorry should have proofed my own message. mike

[howwiwowie]

Hi Mikel,

I don't know whether they add it or not. I was wondering about the same thing as you said, I went to buy a bottle of prime today and added it to the water.

BTW, my tap water is about KH4 GH is 1-2, Ph 7.3, nitrate is about 5 ppm to undetectable.

I tried to add some Mg2SO4 this morning. No effect yet. (worried about over-eating caused constipation)

I have several antibiotics on hand. (including kanamycin and erythromycin) anyone thinks I should use it if its not improved tomorrow.

Thanks

Howard

[Ardan]

I think something has changed in the water. Test ammonia and nitrite.
Use prime.

hth
Ardan

[Ardan]

one other thing. do you age the water?
Is the ph stable?

Ardan

[pcsb23]

Also temperature shock can do this to fish as can a sudden ph swing. Make sure the new water is close to the old in temperature and ph.

[howwiwowie]

Thanks for Ardan's and pcsb23's suggestion, I checked the pH from tap water and my aged container, I found pH7.2 vs pH 7.4. (so it probably is not a problem) I tested the nitrite in the tank now, it's 0.05 ppm. I also tested ammonia (NH4+), and It's undetectable. I tested the nitrite (0.05 ppm) and ammonia (undetectable) from tap. It seems we have a bit nitrite problem here maybe.

Also out of curiosity, I went to the website of our local water treatment plant and I found....gee....they put not only chlorine but also hydrofluosilcic acid (fluoride), caustic soda and zinc orthoposphate (for corrosion control)! I wonder how much they put it in? Though I never had big problems like this before, they may not be the cause of the flat swimming fish. But it makes me rethink maybe getting a RO system.

The fish is still lying flat! Any suggestion for the next step?

Thanks!

[Ardan]

Try the prime. And do watch the temp as Paul stated.

hth
Ardan

[jeep]

I think something has changed in the water. Test ammonia and nitrite.
Use prime.

hth
Ardan

Lying down on the bottom is a classic sign of chloramines poisoning, although it goes with other water related issues as well. I believe Ardan is correct about something changing in the water. This is the change of seasons when water paramiters fluxuate wildly and the water companies dump chemicals to compensate. That, combined with a "massive rain" does not do well with discus.

Aging your water and using prime is the best, and IMO, the only way to go during changing seasons...

[howwiwowie]

The fish start swimming around more like a flounder today. (yesterday its just lying there.) After I drop the water level of the tank to about the standing height of the fish and add prime to the water yesterday. I took some water out (~4G out of 15G I will say) and put some prime treated ON water in this morning. The fish seems to be hungry since it's nibbing things. I will keep you guys posted after I came back from work, hope it will get better. Thanks!

Howard

[howwiwowie]

The fish had recovered its ability to swim today.
Thank you guys for the advice. :D

Howard

[jeep]

Good deal!! That makes me think it was chloramines. If you had done nothing, it would have been badly damaged if not killed. Once detoxified, a discus can rebound fairly quickly from chloramines poisoning...

[2sybs]

I don't think it was mentioned here but chloramines unlike chlorine are not removed from the water through aging. you need to keep using the Prime with your wc.
Ray

[Ardan]

:) Glad to hear it.
Ardan

[howwiwowie]

Well,

I start getting some rashes and ichness of my skin recently. I start wondering whether I am alergy to the water from my tap, due to they start using chloramine. Or just a sympathetic effect from my fish :p But I am going to see a doctor this week. I really think they should stop using chlroamine, and going back to chlorine since it's not degraded/dissipated quickly, what if there is a pipe broken and it leaks to nature environment, it will kill all the amphibians and fishes. It is very very bad I think. And some people do develop skin problems if there are excess chloramine while they took showers.

[Kindredspirit]

Do you feed fbw? Some have allergic reactions to them ~