Is there a definitive secret against white eggs?

[Brdiscus]

Hello all,
I read I lot of posts talking about “how to get success with fries”, but unhapply until now, I didn’t have, or almost not. White eggs, white eggs, white eggs...
The first time I tried using a Red Turquoise pair, and I think I did all possible controls to have babies. I checked the water movement, hardness, condutivity, temperature, real pair, active male, and others.
With this pair, in the seventh attempt I had 5 fries. It was the first time that I was controling condutivity and it was 145 microsiemens as result. I thought that was the answer!
I keep decreasing the condutivity, and in the 8th attempt I had 28 fries. I was sure, that was the secret.
The male had health problems, and I missed two weeks with this. When it was better, it began to hurt the female, and I had more other two atempts but the female was too tired and weak and I didn’t have sucess. The violence proceed and I needed to move the male to another tank.
Nowadays I’m trying with a Blue Diamond pair and the controls were the same. I had 4th attempts without success. The setup: 72l tank, 28c temperature, PH 6.8, hardness short, condutivity 90 microsiemens.
The water is RO water with 24 microsiemens condutivity, mixed with water with some acid and Aquasafe, to raise the PH and to eliminate the chloramines and heavy metals.
The male is a two years old blue diamond and the female is a 15 months old blue diamond too. The male I bought as a pair, but unhapply the first female dead (the breeder told me the pair had tree success spawns before belongs to me, this man is a very trusty breeder in my city). As I bought lot of discus to form pairs, I got another female to get a pair again. They are. As the male is trusty and the water conditions are OK, I have no idea, what is the problem, because every time I have white eggs.
The problem isn’t fungi, because just some of them have fungi.
With this new pair, I never see the spawn moment, but with my old pair, I saw and the problem was the same.
I’m wondering about mix water, if is there any problem, if I mix a pure water with a treated water, because the filtration is poor and I don't know if the acid product or Aquasafe can, destroy the eggs life. I can’t supose nothing more, because I did all know controls. Diferent pair, same problem.
Could anybody tell me please what’s wrong?
I would appreciate very much some help, because I need to have success.
Sorry about possible english language errors.:o
Thank you!
Alex

[Elite Aquaria]

Alex,

How old are your pairs? How often are you doing water changes? What are you feeding your pairs? I have had success with microsiemens counts around 90 and as high as 220. In fact, I did not see any difference at the higher levels. This shocked me since we are programed to keep hardness low. The one thing that I learned is that the key is to keep the water constant. If you are changing water a lot and using any form of acid this will be difficult to do...Once you keep the water consistent and you have good pairs then you will be set. Another possible factor is your pairs. What breeder would sell a good producing pair. I think you are better off buying 10 young juvie discus and raising them up to adulthood. Then let them pair off.

Good Luck

Dan

[Brdiscus]

Hello Dan,

Thank you for your replay!
The first pair I bought (Red Turquoise), I saw fries in the breeder tank, and he told me the pair was 2 years old. I'm not sure if was true or not, but I had 8 or 10 opportunities to have success and after the male stressed and began to attack the female and I put it in another tank.
The second pair (blue diamond), the male I bought from a very trusty breeder, he had a lot of blue diamond pairs (16) and he sold 3. The female dead quickly and as I have other blue diamonds, that I bought to form pairs, I took a female that was ready to spwan and I introduce the old male in the tank. Firstly I introduced another male from the same origem that the female (they gave me signal that was a pair), but it was too young and after one month I did the change.
As you wrote, realy I cant believe what more can be wrong because all the controls are OK.
I feed all fishes with Sera Granulate discus and Blood worm, and about of water changes, it depends, commonly I just clean the feces and complete the aquarium, but sometimes (as I read from a lot of posts) I do a big water changes before the spawn happens. I do twice.
About of the acid...
I use to get 6.8 PH a product with Chloridric Acid, because the local PH is 7.8. But the quantity is too small. And I use just in the 1/4 of water because is necessary to make the mix and equilibrate the condutivity too.
Also I use Tetra Aquasafe to clean the water against Chloramines.
Saturday I bougth a new filter to eliminate Aquasafe necessity, because it uses activated carbon and a polipropilen midia to clean the water. But the acid I can't suspend the use, because the PH is too high and the RO condutivity is too low.
That's all, Dan.
Do you believe the problem can be the acid? Maybe, can I use another kind of acid to prepare the water?
Does anybody has another idea?

Thak you all!
Alex

[glen pratts]

Hello Dan,

Thank you for your replay!
The first pair I bought (Red Turquoise), I saw fries in the breeder tank, and he told me the pair was 2 years old. I'm not sure if was true or not, but I had 8 or 10 opportunities to have success and after the male stressed and began to attack the female and I put it in another tank.
The second pair (blue diamond), the male I bought from a very trusty breeder, he had a lot of blue diamond pairs (16) and he sold 3. The female dead quickly and as I have other blue diamonds, that I bought to form pairs, I took a female that was ready to spwan and I introduce the old male in the tank. Firstly I introduced another male from the same origem that the female (they gave me signal that was a pair), but it was too young and after one month I did the change.
As you wrote, realy I cant believe what more can be wrong because all the controls are OK.
I feed all fishes with Sera Granulate discus and Blood worm, and about of water changes, it depends, commonly I just clean the feces and complete the aquarium, but sometimes (as I read from a lot of posts) I do a big water changes before the spawn happens. I do twice.
About of the acid...
I use to get 6.8 PH a product with Chloridric Acid, because the local PH is 7.8. But the quantity is too small. And I use just in the 1/4 of water because is necessary to make the mix and equilibrate the condutivity too.
Also I use Tetra Aquasafe to clean the water against Chloramines.
Saturday I bougth a new filter to eliminate Aquasafe necessity, because it uses activated carbon and a polipropilen midia to clean the water. But the acid I can't suspend the use, because the PH is too high and the RO condutivity is too low.
That's all, Dan.
Do you believe the problem can be the acid? Maybe, can I use another kind of acid to prepare the water?
Does anybody has another idea?

Thak you all!
Alex
Hi Alex and Dan, Im also trying to bread discus too and have been close but but not quite their yet. I have two pairs. One pair browns and the other is a cobalt with a pigoen. I had the same problem with getting white eggs and used a product which breaders use in the far east. It works well if you dose the water with it one hour after they spawn. I turn off the main lights and then add the dossage. I do it this way because it is green in colour and by turning off the light i think stops the pair getting stressed and worried. The product is called Myxazin and i add 5ml to my 200l aquarium. I found out through an artical in Tropical Fish magazine. If any of you guys are interested i can send by e-mail. I dont anderstand what microsiemens are can somene explain. I use ro water with a 5% waste water mix. This gives me a ph 6.5. I just look at the PH the tempreture and give my pairs a varied diet. Is this microsiemens something i should know about?

Regards Glen

[lybrasoft]

Hy,


I like to keep things more simple. You said you have RO water.
Use 60-70% RO water (usually the Ph of the Ro shuold be less then 6.4...depends on the tap) and aged tap water. This should give you a stable Ph without using any chemicals.

The second option is peat moss. If you filter your tap water through peat moss it lowers the PH and does a lot of god things to your water. Research that.

This is if you want to improve the water quality.

As far as i know the white eggs are because you have too many dissolved solids or bacteria built up in tour tank. You can control that with regular larger water changes. 30% daily.
RO water is what you need for the eggs.

I use 80%-90% RO and add aged tap water just for a minimum content of minerals.

[Mattie]

well established biological filter did the trick for me with 2-3 week old aquarium water.;)
The pair had hardly any white eggs (maybe 5 out of +-100 i reckon)

[White Worm]

Hy,


I like to keep things more simple. You said you have RO water.
Use 60-70% RO water (usually the Ph of the Ro shuold be less then 6.4...depends on the tap) and aged tap water. This should give you a stable Ph without using any chemicals.
.


This is what I did. Mine is a mix of RO(70%) and tap(30%)..no other additives accept prime for conditioner. For me the trick was to watch the hardness (gH 3-6).

[Brdiscus]

Hello all,

Thank you for your posts.
After many attempts, I got success, and the most important is I know why!
In many posts I read about condutivity, but I never saw an especific information about that.
I found many other posts talking about mix water 70% RO + 30% Tap water, but I never understood why.
The secret quite simple as wrote Librasoft, but I needed to study a lot to understand.
As everybody know the RO turn down the condutivity, in my equipment the condutivity becomes 24 microsiemens or less. The problem is what it means?
The RO almost kill the water, removing mineral salts ant trace elements, and also the life components.
As a newbie as was "rebuilding" the water condutivity using acid products, until condutivity as 90 microsiemens.
All other aspects was OK and if the condutivity was OK too, why the eggs becomes white?:confused:
I thought about all process and I consulted again many posts, soo I understood the problem wasn't condutivity, but the mineral salts and trace elements ausence, absolutely necessary to fries development.
I changed the "build" water method, and in the first attempt I already got babies.
Nowadays, firstly I mix RO water and filtered water until 90 microsiemens condutivity, later I introduce acid product to obtain Ph as 6,8 (the conductivity changes to 93/94 microsiemens).
I had 4 new spaws, and 4 success.
Sincere thank you, everybody!
Best wishes and excellent 2008!
Alex

[White Worm]

Most times, the hardness of the water affects membrane fertilization. Could also be too much water current in the tank. RO softens the water for easier fertilization. Get a gH tester. Keep stable pH. You can do this without chemicals.