Whats your biggest headache with this hobby?

[GrillMaster]

I started this thread after reading Remi's heartbreaking ordeal with the heater sicking and utimately losing alot of fish...

I have to say that the most inafficient appliance we have in our tanks at the moment are the heaters.

I have had a dozen different heaters from various suppliers, and the result is always the same. No consistency.

I have a gaurdian 250W right now in a 55G tank that hates when the room gets to 60 deg! I had it at 84 deg the whole spring, summer and fall. The tank stayed at 84 religiously. The minute the temps dropped into the 30's, the tank temps dropped right along with it. Now you would think that a 250W heater would take care of a 55G tank.

I have had the titanium heaters. The $40 ones that have the probe an the external settings. They lasted about 8 months, and I wound up scrambling to the lfs to just get somthing to heat the tank back up.

You would think that with todays technology, there would be a heater out there that didn't care what the room temp is.....The tank will be at 84 deg 24/7...

tc
mark

[tpl*co]

It's not just on matching the size of the heater to the tank, but how many degrees that the heater has to raise the water to the desired temp that determines the watts you need. In the winter you may need more watts. Here's an article on the amount of watts to temp increase:

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/tipsandtables/l/blheatersize.htm

According to this guide you'll need two 200 watt heaters to keep your tank at 84 when the room temp is 60 (raise a 55 gallon tank 24 degrees)

Tina

[emperordune]

Waiting for the water to siphon out while doing a water change.

[tpl*co]

Having said that, I've had more Stealth heaters fail than I can count :( (and a few other brands too). I've got heater controllers on my main tanks.

Also, never work on any equipment in your tank after the LFS is closed. Murphy's Law, something will break or not go together right.

Tina

[2sybs]

I agree that the heater is the most likely to fail.
There are some steps that can be taken to lessen the likelihood of heater fatalities.
First you can pick up a temp monitor with an alarm. This will alert you to a problem hopefully before it becomes critical.
second, use a heater controller.

I have on my 33 hex right now that is being used as a QT tank a 100w EBO Jager set at 90* plugged into a Pro Heat II controller. and while the controller is way off on it's readout i also have a seperate digital thermometer that I do trust for the most part.
If for some reason the controller stuck on, the heater itself should turn itself off at 90*. the chances that they will both fail are fairly slim.
Now the reason I have found in most thermostats failing is the contacts burning caused by the inevitable arcing when they turn off and on over and over and they tend to more or less weld themselves together. now using the separate controller keeps the contacts in the heater itself fairly clean.

[DISCUS USA]

Paying for shipping .. i hate paying for shipping because that money could easily go to more fish if the person selling the fish lived within reasonable travel distance from me..

And i hate other stuff about the hobby but the shipping thing is the worst..

[architect1]

I would say sick discus, I have had my fair share of scares and learned my lesson but right now I hate these new fish that I got and there all going crazy, Like doing 360s and nothing I do stopped me from losing 2 so far. Like today was a good day nothing happened, but you never know.

Other then that I enjoy the hobby have a healthy tank knock on wood and the other ones are in a hospital tank.

Oh i do hate having to siphon all the food and poop into the one pail and dumping it out, then dump it into the tank after I clean the sand, then do the water change.

[Dolphin Dip]

stopping the constant company y family has over from "helping dave with the pretty fishies"... i.e. feeding my discus copious amounts of flakes.

[Rod]

making fish food mixes, i spend several hours each week doing it. But i won't buy commercial or get someone to make it, i'm way too fussy.

[Hans Kloss]

New fish deworming. After long weeks/months with microscope and medicines I've never been 100% sure for them to be clean. So I'm still keeping my old, ugly fish instead of buying some new stuff.
Hans

[brewmaster15]

Whats your biggest headache with this hobby?

Insufficent tank space syndrome...;).No matter how many tanks I have set up...theres never enough for the number of fish and strains I want... that means I have to deal with the second headache for me.. who stays and who goes:(

-al

[B-O-F]

Insufficent tank space syndrome...;).No matter how many tanks I have set up...theres never enough for the number of fish and strains I want... that means I have to deal with the second headache for me.. who stays and who goes:(

-al

Known the world over as ITS syndrome. The only desease known to man that can spread without contact. At one time scientists were hopeful of finding a cure but they all went down with it themselves and now it is just being left to burn out.

Fat chance. :)

[Kindredspirit]

Great Thread, Mark!:D






Also, never work on any equipment in your tank after the LFS is closed.
Tina

I often think of this while working on a tank! I have never had it happen....yet;)



Paying for shipping .. i hate paying for shipping because that money could easily go to more fish if the person selling the fish lived within reasonable travel distance from me..


aww...Hector! But if we don't pay for shipping then the seller does and that isn't fair.:) You must pick something else that bugs you...:D



stopping the constant company y family has over from "helping dave with the pretty fishies"... i.e. feeding my discus copious amounts of flakes.

LOL!

[Don Trinko]

"Dark Discus" Sometimes the fish is sick but what disease? Sometimes the fish is just in a bad mood? or 2 day flue? I have had 1 fish in a tank of others turn dark with no other symptoms. Some times in a day or 2 they are back to normal. Sometimes I end up treating with some med but don't realy know what the disease is. (no white poo or other symptoms)
Don T.

[Elite Aquaria]

For me it is simple my WIFE complaining that I spend to much time in my fish room and on this site...:D

Dan

[DISCUS USA]

Sorry marie im sticking to my guns,,shipping costs are horrible sorry about the sellers but seems importing the fish yourself is almost the way to go after last bill i got from fed ex i almost had an accident in my pants plus the package got here late..,,for real! something gotta change with that cuz seems some people charge more for shipping than actual cost.. i mean if they want more money for transporting the fish to fed ex office or airport they should tell you they are adding more to bill for transporting,, or maybe instead of shipping one box monday another thursday another friday if seller ships one time a week that would save on the sellers transportation costs fuel .. just a thought..


And also some sellers are funny for example seller A is in state whatever and he charges $65 shipping then seller B charges $85 shipping both are from same state using same delivery service same over night delivery service.. What he the heck is up with that.. We as consumers have no way of knowing how much was the actual shipping cost even though we are the ones digging in our pockets deep for this service.. not fair ! is there a number where we can call to see what is the actual cost of the service not the mumbo jumbo stuff they write on the airbill??

[brewmaster15]

Hector,


And also some sellers are funny for example seller A is in state whatever and he charges $65 shipping then seller B charges $85 shipping both are from same state using same delivery service same over night delivery service.. What he the heck is up with that.. We as consumers have no way of knowing how much was the actual shipping cost even though we are the ones digging in our pockets deep for this service.. not fair ! is there a number where we can call to see what is the actual cost of the service not the mumbo jumbo stuff they write on the airbill??

When you pick up a package at fedex you can ask what the shipping would be back to the shipper.:)

I hear your shipping gripes and because of concerns like this when I ship Fedex.. I do one of several things ..I ask the buyer to provide me with their fedex number so they get the charges..and not me. I will also ship Fedex Collect..to the customers nearest staffed fedex location. and again the customer will pay fedex charges and shipping charges do not line my pockets or drain my wallet.

If a customer really wants the package delivered to their home..I am very clear...I can only provide an estimate...


Shipping fish is not just a headache for the buyer...most sellers do not like doing it....its a royal pain...what makes it worse is the seller has absolutely no control over what happens when the fish are received.:mad: you can only hope for the best.

-al

[DISCUS USA]

Al thanks for that info about asking fed ex how much box costs to send it back..im going to do that for now on..

Also u mentioned some stuff that made me ask this question,,is it cheaper to pick up at fed ex office or more $$ to have it delivered to your door?

[brewmaster15]

s it cheaper to pick up at fed ex office or more $$ to have it delivered to your door? Depends.

Often times if you sent a package over night priortity to get it to a customers house in the morning you could save money by sending it standard next day to the persons home and it would get there that afternoon... or you could send it standard next day to the staffed fedex location near them and the could pick it first thing in the morning as if it were sent Priority.. Most fedex locations have the package availible that morning because they recieve the shipments and have to load the trucks at the same time regardless of its priority or std over night...

Its another reason why I have customers pick it up.

hth,
al

[Discus-Hans]

Hector,

it can be much easier go to:

http://www.fedex.com/ratefinder/home?cc=US&language=en

remember (don't know for everybody) I pay +/- $10 for a styro, $2.00 for a carton box. Home delivery is I think is $4 or $5 extra
On the other hand because the amount of boxes we do I've a discount on my shipping, but you will be suprised how much the standard price is.

Heaters, I quit telling the people USE 2 SMALLER HEATERS SO YOU WON'T MAKE FISH SOUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Use cheaper heaters, if you don't trust after a few months, trow them away and buy an other one, people spend fortunes on Discus but 2 (smaller) heaters are to expensive.

Brings me to my biggest headache in this Hobby.................Discus keepers (not all but many)

Hans

[DISCUS USA]

Now im thinking i really got played because sounds like i was charged for overnight and box was actually shipped standard next day cause i remember box getting here like 3-4 pm i was pissed because i had stuff to do was expecting box 10 am -12 pm latest..fed ex never ever has problem finding this building and ive ordered fish from all over like 20 times total.. last time i got a $160 fed ex bill for i think 9 or 10 two inch fish and 3 large fish.. i almost died when i saw that.. i was given a much lower estimate for the shipping from the seller before box was actually sent..

[tpl*co]

Insufficent tank space syndrome...;).No matter how many tanks I have set up...theres never enough for the number of fish and strains I want... that means I have to deal with the second headache for me.. who stays and who goes:(

-al

I agree with this one too. It's not only me deciding on who goes in where, the fish have an opinion who they want to share a tank with too! ughhh.

Tina

[LizStreithorst]

My least favorite is catastrophic illness. The little stuff I can deal with. It's a heart breaker to have to dump a fish room full of good fish.

My second least favorite thing is shipping. No matter how good a job you do with packing, once that box leaves your hands you have no controll. I have had disasters on the sending end and on the receiving end. The entire experience, whether sending or receiving is very stressful.

[FishLover888]

DOA discus.

That really hits hard when you paid the overnight fee and the fish did not make it for whatever reason.

[DISCUS USA]

On the other hand because the amount of boxes we do I've a discount on my shipping, but you will be suprised how much the standard price is.


Hans

How much is the standard shipping without volume discount? and ive gotten many styro foam boxes and cardboard boxes were reused by the shipper .. meaning the shipper that sends me my fish re use the cardboard box and styro foam that the exporter sent fish to this country in.. but still charge me these crazy shipping prices.. and i asked the shipper of fish of last discus i ordered if it was less to pick up at fed ex and he said no its the same so im thinking something is up here ..

[brewmaster15]

Brings me to my biggest headache in this Hobby.................Discus keepers (not all but many) ROTFLMAO... I NEVER run into that here on the forum!!!!!.:D:D:D:D-al

[baldpate]

On the positive side, I get countless hours of enjoyment watching my fish. When I get home from work, I greet the fam and then go straight to the tank to see how the fish and plants are doing. But, my least favorite things are:

1. Water changes, because I'm still doing the old bucket method.

2. Inability to confidently diagnose disease and find the best treatment.

3. Inability to keep German blue rams alive. I've had FAR better success with discus and cardinal tetras.

4. Not enough tank space for all the cool species and strains that I want.

[Ardan]

Myself

I make too many mistakes over the yrs, but I guess that is when I learn a lot too.:)
I've been working with discus off and on for 30 yrs, always a mistake to stop the successful spawn. But I keep trying:D
Sure is nice today to have the internet and people, such as are on this site, to learn from.:)

My son told me the obvious, "why don't you just stick with what works":D ( I always try new things, some work, some don't )

Still happy and can't ever leave the hobby:):)

Ardan

[Darren's Discus]

Insufficent tank space syndrome...;).No matter how many tanks I have set up...theres never enough for the number of fish and strains I want... that means I have to deal with the second headache for me.. who stays and who goes:(

-al

ditto !

[ffighter14]

Hello
As someone who has kept tropical fish for years,and is new to discus I don't have too many headaches at this point.The water changes and worrying about the health of my fish gets to be a bit of headache,but I have 3 grown kids and this is a welcome diversion.(just kidding I love my kids)I actually look foward to the tedium of the day to day care of all my fish.I hope I never get tired of this fascinanting hobby.It keeps me sane.

[Discus-Hans]

How much is the standard shipping without volume discount? and ive gotten many styro foam boxes and cardboard boxes were reused by the shipper .. meaning the shipper that sends me my fish re use the cardboard box and styro foam that the exporter sent fish to this country in.. but still charge me these crazy shipping prices.. and i asked the shipper of fish of last discus i ordered if it was less to pick up at fed ex and he said no its the same so im thinking something is up here ..

Shipping depends from what zip to what zip, I gave you the link try and find out.

I get only the styro in, no box and yes I reuse the same styro box, with a new carton. Why shouldn't the customer have to pay were the importer also for has to pay????? I send always priority overnight, if I remeber well I charged you $65.00 for the last order you got that's incl. carton box, styro, packing, handling, live arival insurance, etc.

If you look down at the list, FedEx only is $80.97

Now do you finaly see what a freaking nice guy I'm :angel:

Hans

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1. Ship From / To Help Edit

From: Nottingham, 21236, U.S.A. | To: Island park, 11558, U.S.A. on November 15, 2007.

2. Package and Shipment Details Help Edit

Package details: 1 package , 32.0 lbs, Your Packaging , 20 in x 18 in x 15 in, 0.00 USD.

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Select Delivery Date/Time Service Rate
Same day in shortest time possible. Call 1·800·Go·FedEx for availability and rate. FedEx Same Day®
Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:30 AM FedEx First Overnight® 110.09
Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:30 AM FedEx Priority Overnight® 80.97
Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:00 PM FedEx Standard Overnight® 70.13
Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:00 PM FedEx 2Day® 46.25
Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:00 PM FedEx Express Saver® 38.21
End of day (1 Business Day) FedEx Home Delivery® 14.36

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[greyhoundfan]

Whats your biggest headache with this hobby? .............

My wife..

[Discus-Hans]

Whats your biggest headache with this hobby? .............

My wife..

Now that's easy to solve Reid, had that same problem for 30 years with my wife uhhhhhhhhhhhhh ex wife now lol.

When I started Discus Hans USA I made Joanne (my new wife) the owner, now I can say don't complain they are YOUR fishies lol

Hans

[Discus-Hans]

ROTFLMAO... I NEVER run into that here on the forum!!!!!.:D:D:D:D-al

ha ha ha ha my friend, you've a button I don't, how do you call that???????????????????????


BAN

lol

Hans

[DISCUS USA]

Yeah that i remember it was $65 what like 2 years ago plus you have the volume discount,,is it the same now $65 to ship here since barrel of oil almost double since back then .

Why cant you use the end of day (1 Business Day) FedEx Home Delivery® 14.36 ?? sounds good must be for envelopes not big boxes of fish,,

[Wahter]

My least favorite is catastrophic illness. The little stuff I can deal with. It's a heart breaker to have to dump a fish room full of good fish.

My second least favorite thing is shipping. No matter how good a job you do with packing, once that box leaves your hands you have no controll. I have had disasters on the sending end and on the receiving end. The entire experience, whether sending or receiving is very stressful.

I'll agree with Liz on her first choice, but my second one would be not being able to bring fish into the USA from another country (ie. you find some nice ones while on vacation) unless you're arriving at a designated port of entry! GRRRRrrrrr!!!!!


Walter

[Discus-Hans]

I'll agree with Liz on her first choice, but my second one would be not being able to bring fish into the USA from another country (ie. you find some nice ones while on vacation) unless you're arriving at a designated port of entry! GRRRRrrrrr!!!!!
Walter

Walter, were do you come in the USA????

I've all designated + one for Dullus,

Hans

[QUOTE=DISCUS USA;421210]Yeah that i remember it was $65 what like 2 years ago plus you have the volume discount,,is it the same now $65 to ship here since barrel of oil almost double since back then .
QUOTE]


Same price to NY, to California is $90-$95 I take here and there a part of the shipping. Think 3 boxes to NY is $150.00

Hans

[Discus-Hans]

Cheapest and fast way is Standard Overnight with Hold on Location, ship to a FedEx or Kinko's Standard Overnight and most of the time you can pick it up after 9am

Hans

[DISCUS USA]

Yeah that i remember it was $65 what like 2 years ago plus you have the volume discount,,is it the same now $65 to ship here since barrel of oil almost double since back then .
QUOTE]


Same price to NY, to California is $90-$95 I take here and there a part of the shipping. Think 3 boxes to NY is $150.00

Hans

I did and order from cali to ny about nine 2-3 inch fish and 3 big adult fish got charged $160 from fed ex and the box came in late like 4 pm was supposed to be here by 10 am .. i called up fed ex said do i have to pay since it came in later than it was supposed to they said sorry they couldnt do anything to talk to my shipper.. dam 3 boxes from cali to ny $150 i only got one box and paid $160 ..

You think i got taken advantage of?was few months ago..

[DISCUS USA]

Cheapest and fast way is Standard Overnight with Hold on Location, ship to a FedEx or Kinko's Standard Overnight and most of the time you can pick it up after 9am

Hans

Hey Hans thanks for the info very useful for future reference ..

[Discus-Hans]

I did and order from cali to ny about nine 2-3 inch fish and 3 big adult fish got charged $160 from fed ex and the box came in late like 4 pm was supposed to be here by 10 am .. i called up fed ex said do i have to pay since it came in later than it was supposed to they said sorry they couldnt do anything to talk to my shipper.. dam 3 boxes from cali to ny $150 i only got one box and paid $160 ..

You think i got taken advantage of?was few months ago..

Priority Overnight (before 10:30am) is $157.86
Standard Overnight (before 3pm) is $147.61

Those are the standard prices from Baltimore to California
I charge a regular customer $90-$95 for that same trip.

The 3 boxes were you talk about are from Baltimore to NY $150.00
Not from Cali to NY

Hans

Think your shipper has to give me a call, this Europian Discus seller has a good sales rep. think that shipper has to talk to my sales rep.
Or..............the shipper didn't trust you and thought you pay for your own shipping, than you pay the basic price as above.
I pre pay for all my customers and charge that on their invoice.

Hans

[architect1]

Another big headache for me is not having the money to do everything right the first time, like lights, co2 and plants. LOL one of the perks of being a college student.

[Discus-Hans]

Hey Hans thanks for the info very useful for future reference ..

No problem we are here to help :angel:

Hans

[DISCUS USA]

Priority Overnight (before 10:30am) is $157.86
Standard Overnight (before 3pm) is $147.61

Those are the standard prices from Baltimore to California
I charge a regular customer $90-$95 for that same trip.

The 3 boxes were you talk about are from Baltimore to NY $150.00
Not from Cali to NY

Hans

Think your shipper has to give me a call, this Europian Discus seller has a good sales rep. think that shipper has to talk to my sales rep.
Or..............the shipper didn't trust you and thought you pay for your own shipping, than you pay the basic price as above.
I pre pay for all my customers and charge that on their invoice.

Hans

I dont know my head is twisted right this making me dizzy drinking and reading,,lol but yeah if this guy i got fish from doesnt do something about his shipping rates i predict a down fall for him in discus in near future its ridiculous the shipping rates some these people have thats why they end up having fish too long getting stunted cause their shipping cost is thru the roof.. i dont know you tell my shipper to speak to your fed ex sales rep u got to know who the shipper is im not upset at the sales guy hes cool as hell love the guy.. :) its the shipper im weary of now after all i just read.. its rare a shipper gives out so much info out here like you just did Hans good looking out ..lol

[White Worm]

Not having a fish room............yet! :D
I have tanks around the house so cleaning and watching can be difficult at times. I would love to have everything in the same place and not worry if I spill. Also....it would give me more room for more tanks!:)

[White Worm]

Not having a fish room............yet! :D
I have tanks around the house so cleaning and watching can be difficult at times. I would love to have everything in the same place and not worry if I spill. Also....it would give me more room for more tanks!:) I dont want to worry about IT Syndrome.

[FishLover888]

Last time I ordered fish the seller charged me $63 for overnight USPS next day shipping (4 fish bags with one discus in each bag).

It looks like the cheapest out there. Fedex would cost me about $80

I'm waiting for another shipment this coming Sat. for another 4 discus, same seller.

Not sure if you want to trust USPS. They sent it to the wrong address last time and I had to track it down and pick it up at the postal office.

Then again, last time Fedex made the same mistake too. I think it has something to do with the street number on my house. I just put a big number on the mail box and hoping they can find it this time.

So far, UPS is the only one that gets the address right every time for my home.

You would think these days GPS should be on each delivery track and finding an address should not be that hard at all. Well, I guess not.

[GrillMaster]

Not having a fish room............yet! :D
I have tanks around the house so cleaning and watching can be difficult at times. I would love to have everything in the same place and not worry if I spill. Also....it would give me more room for more tanks!:)

Ditto on that one!! I want a fishroom in a bad way!

I almost forgot one of my biggest headaches!! Moving the tanks so I could get new carpet installed. What a major pain in the deriere that was!!! :(

I lost alot of fish in my planted tank with that whole ordeal! It was preventable, but trying to cram all the furniture in one place in a few hours was plain crazy to say the least. I should have put the fish in a barrel then set it back up gradually. But noooo, not me...Lets just empty the tank till it light enough to move than fill it back up. Not a good move on my part.

I just need a basement! :)

[brewmaster15]

I just need a basement! yep a basements a beautiful thing Mark!;) Just be sure you don't go overboard ....not that I would know anything about that!:D

-al

[GrillMaster]

yep a basements a beautiful thing Mark!;) Just be sure you don't go overboard ....not that I would know anything about that!:D

-al

Uh huh....I see alot more tanks for YOU in the near future!! :D ;)

tc
Mark

[brewmaster15]

Uh huh....I see alot more tanks for YOU in the near future!! maybe...but if there is..that means there might be alot of welding in YOUR near future!;):D

-al

[GrillMaster]

:D:D:D;)

[BSW]

Whats your biggest headache with this hobby? .............

My wife..

That's to funny !

Balancing live plants, ferts, and Discus. I've done well at both but, doing both in the same tank has been a PITA ! Just must not be my nich.
Of course the fish come first..............
B

[White Worm]

I just need a basement! :)

Thats one of my main considerations when buying our new house when we move to oregon in June. Told the wife to note whether or not her selections have a basement!! or.........I will settle for the third part of a three car garage. I can start Magic Garage II :D

[Greg Richardson]

Mike. If you get a garage have the room on the inside wall. That way you can put a tank in the wall to enjoy in the house with plenty of room to work on it.

[White Worm]

That would be nice! Dont know how I would feel about cutting a big hole though. More importantly...dont how the wife would like me cutting a big hole :D

[Wahter]

Walter, were do you come in the USA????

I've all designated + one for Dullus,

Hans



Typically, I enter in at Detroit (DTW). Ironically, they are on the border with Canada (being just outside of Detroit), but it's not a designated port of entry (Chicago is for that region). I usually fly Northwest (Northworst) because all of my frequent flier miles are with them and unfortunately, they don't come in at any of the ports except LAX or San Fran, but that would make the trips longer.


Walter

[Diamond Discus]

My biggest headache is fish poo!! LOL Which creates a long list of other biggest headaches in the hobby. :D

[GrillMaster]

My biggest headache is fish poo!! LOL Which creates a long list of other biggest headaches in the hobby. :D

Plants love fish poo!!! :D ;)

[alxjss]

Being new to this hobby, i will have to say, illnesses and strange behavior. When i notice something wrong, i get very sad:( simply because I am not experienced enough to do anything on my own:mad:

[Diamond Discus]

Plants love fish poo!!! :D ;)I guess I should move them to my planted tank. :D

But then I'd get a new list of headaches.....my fish always get some bacterial eye cloud when I have them in a planted tank. I'd have to change my answer to, having to move my discus to a BB QT tank for eye cloud! http://www.cichlidfanatics.com/Forum/images/smilies/laughing%20hysterically%202.gif

[Elcid]

Hehe, nice answers! Okay for me the biggest headache is getting "New Discus" There is just so much that can go wrong and I always convince myself that "Not Getting New Discus" is the best solution! I always think, "Get the best you can, and then enjoy them" ;)....What a discus should live atleast 8 to 10 years!

HTH,
Sandeep

[fishmama]

Biggest Headache: Paying all the fish related expenses! :-( And then trying to come up with some rationale why it is a reasonable expenditure!

[Diamond Discus]

Biggest Headache: Paying all the fish related expenses! :-( And then trying to come up with some rationale why it is a reasonable expenditure!Good one, I forgot about that one!!

[GrillMaster]

Biggest Headache: Paying all the fish related expenses! :-( And then trying to come up with some rationale why it is a reasonable expenditure!

I think it should be a tax write off like everything else!! :D

[fishmama]

Great idea Mark...now we just have to come up with our angle on that idea! Something to do with environmental issues....hmmm...

[GrillMaster]

To be honest...I hope I get to the point where I am hating all the expenses!! That just means I am doing things right...:D ;)

[Dolphin Dip]

Great idea Mark...now we just have to come up with our angle on that idea! Something to do with environmental issues....hmmm...

that's actually a great idea. a lot of domestic fish are endangered in the wild... maybe not discus just yet. but it sounds like it could work with some other fish.

cha-ching! =]