my 125 angel tank

[limige]

hi all, thought i'd drop in and share my tank...
looking into doing CO2 sometime down the road, i'm having trouble with short stuff growing. tank has 4 VHO bulbs, two super actnic and 2 10k's. running a rena (I think) canister filter on it. along with a sponge filter using a powerhead for additional flow.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/HPIM0073.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/HPIM0078.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/HPIM0079.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/HPIM0080.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/HPIM0081.jpg

[pcsb23]

I like the basics of the tank, you may find that by swapping out the actinics for some daylight tubes (6400K) you will get better growth without needing CO2. If you do get CO2 you will have to plant heavier than you have.

Do you use any ferts?

[limige]

nope, just change the water. not much trouble with algea any longer either.

[pcsb23]

Those big snails should do a good number on any algae present :)

[Tropical Haven]

Very nice tank, I have angels as well and would like to go with live plants eventually but never tried it.

[Silent Running]

I agree with Paul, I'd lose the actinics - they're more for a reef type environment. I use GE Daylight Ultra bulbs on my VHO setup and really like the color they provide and the plants seem to love them (plus, they're only $5/bulb as opposed to the ~$20 actinic bulbs). Great tank by the way!

Paul

[limige]

thanks, i realize going to 10k's or whiter will help the plants more but i like the color with the actinics. i don't think plant growth is being slowed by lighting rather limited by nuetrients. either i stepup the wc's to up the growth or suppliment. i worry about suplimenting creating algea blooms.

still fairly new to planted tanks so i appreciate your input.
i figure adding CO2 will help the plants more than adding ferts. but i suppose if i do add the co2 i'm gonna have to add stuff.

anyway, i lost a buch of baby tears i had on the right side. i've tried microsword in the past and had the same problem. just can't figure out how to get small stuff to take.

btw, i switched to vho from powercompacts about 4 months ago and i'm using the bulbs that came with it. so by all means help me pick out better bulbs. problems is i really like a 14k hamilton halide, but i'm not reefing anymore...

[limige]

also, i'm looking into adding another 100 or so card's to the tank, i have two dwarf bristle nose plecos from cary and two cory's as well as the 3 existing cards and about 15 angels i hatched out earlier this year.

[pcsb23]

One of the biggest challenges with planted tansk is that no two tanks are the same. There are some basic rules that help guide us though. One of the principles (in my opinion) for planted tanks is to achieve a balance between light, macro ferts and micro ferts.

Increasing one without the others will result in problems.

Most tanks are imo light constrained. Actinics do not add anything to the useful spectrum that freshwater plants use, at least not by my understanding. I have though used actinics in planted tanks, though it was one tube in four. I got better results though after I swapped the actinic out for a daylight tube.

Many of he micro swords are high light plants and again actinics do not count to the wpg rating (not that I like this rating).

There is no silver bullet with planted tanks, that is what makes them so enjoyable to me. Aim for balance is my advice. Start with the lighting, plants are not like corals, they need light in different parts of the spectrum. 14K and 10K lights are fine on reefs (I had a reef tank) but daylights will give better results imo.

[Silent Running]

I'm a recovering reefer too :) I agree totally about finding the balance in a planted tank. Based solely on my experience, and I'm no chemist or expert, the balance between light, ferts and CO2 is key in maintaining a system without algae. Not sure if you've seen this link or not, but here's a good resource for determining fert dosing.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm

I agree with you too, if you start injecting CO2, you'll definitely want to provide ferts to keep algae at bay. Good luck with the tank, it's looking great!

Paul

[brewmaster15]

Hey Mike,
Great seeing you online again.:) You have a nice set up there with the angels and veggies growing.:D

My question is... When are we going get you back into Discus! You grew out some great ones before.:):)

take care,
al

[limige]

so heres the deal, our water is extremely hard here. even though it's city water it comes out at around 550ppm. so i've been bringing water in from my parents house, there's is 125ppm. that's what i currently use in this tank.

now i have a source for ro/di at work. i'm using it on my pair right now, thinking of mixing some of the tap with the ro/di to give me a decent mix.

right now and the last planted tank i had both had moderate growth. i noticed every time i changed the water 25-40% i would see a quick spurt of growth for about 2 weeks out of my plants. right now i've only been doing water changes about once a month.

so your first suggestion is to change out my antinics with daylights. should i try adding fertilizers, or try adding some tap or what. all i can guess is they are getting nuetrients from the fresh water and thats whats causing the growth spurt.

that link given above looks like its for mixing your own ferts, how do you find out what your short on and where do you buy it in seperate chemicals like that. would i benefit more from adding CO2 or just adding ferts. i assume when you get an algea problem your adding too much..

[limige]

hey al, i've still got the bug, i plan on talking to cary sometime about getting some red melons and some white butterflies. just for the show tank. if they breed great but i can't afford to breed like i was before. i've got to stick to keeping it simple! best thing i learned on here!

[Silent Running]

First of all, I think it depends on how much time you're willing to comit to the tank. If you want a low maintenance, low tech, no fert/CO2 tank, then lowering the amount of light will help you out. But, if you stick with high light, you're eventually going to want/need CO2 and ferts as a three part package to keep your plants healthy and algae away. Weekly 50% water changes also go a long way in helping maintain a balance. Yeah, your water sounds pretty hard and your plants may already be getting some macro and micro nutrients from it depending on the source. Do you have any test kits (nitrate, phosphate...)? I think if you start adding CO2, you're going to want to definitely start dosing ferts. Good test kits will go a long way in helping you establish a routine and determining the uptake rate of your plants.

Here's where I get my bulk ferts. It used to be run by Greg Watson, but he's passed it off to someone who has more time... http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com/

HTH! Paul

[pcsb23]

Mike,

I suspect the growth spurt you are seeing is driven by the new water having some CO2 dissolved in it and also an abundance of micro or trace nutrients. The fish waste providing the other ferts will be fairly constant I would have thought. Your idea of using an RO and tap mix sounds good, if you could do weekly w/c with that then after a month or six weeks you should see if the growth is more constant.

Algae is a sign of imbalance in the tank, the main three things to juggle are light, macro nutrients and micr nutrients. On a 125 running 4 vho lamps, with the 2 actinics changed, I'm guessing will put you near to the 2wpg mark. If my guess is right then using CO2 isn't essential, a small regular dose of flourish excel will be adequate, if needed at all.

With planted tanks it is usually best to change things one at a time, and also assess after each change what the impact is.

[limige]

btw, maybe i should've mentioned dimensions. my tank is a 5'er. 60"x18"x26", lighting is 4 4' VHO lamps which run 110 watts each. right now i'm just shy of the 2 watts per gallon if you don't count the antinics. so if i switch all the bulbs to daylights i'm looking at about 440 watts to 125 gallons of water so about 3.5 watts per gallon. now if i were to need more light i could split my reflector, mount them under the canopy and add the 65x2 pc fixture. but i was told for freshwater plants those vho's should maintain about anything.

so what i'm trying to figure out i guess is what the tank needs yet. i wanted to find some flourish or something and try that to see if thats what they needed. if not i'm guessing its co2 they're looking for.

one of these days i'll have to get some test kits and figure out where everythings at. i think i tossed most of my freshwater kits while i was reefing.

[senso]

Mike

Welcome. Planted tank will provide you with a lot of pleasure, but in getting there, no doubt there will be some challenges, all surmountable.

Comments above all relevant. The WC are adding some CO2 which is spurring the growth. If you remain low tech, I would advise that you remain conservative in adding ferts. Stay away from macros until you clearly understand what your systems is already producing, and then assess your needs. Still add slowly.

Some suggestions
1. Soil. You appear to use gravel as a substrate. You may want to consider a soil, e.g. Eco - Complete.
2. Lights - actinics do not really benefit plants. Look at a 6500k combo with 10,000
3. Plant choices. Ferns, anubias, crypts, echinodorus, are good low tech options

Have fun with it

Rossano

[limige]

actually, the substrate is a sand/gravel mix, i was going to go straight sand but thought the gravel would help stop it from getting too packed.

[pcsb23]

You will have enough light with the 2 110W tubes for a low tech tank. If you go with 2 more you will need CO2, ferts and more plants. CO2 needs a bit of thought and planning, you will need to undertand the relationship between gh/kh and ph re ppm CO2 as well as dosing regimes etc.

Get your self some test kits, you are going to need gh, kh, ph, PO4 and NO3 and it would make sense to get an Fe test kit too. :)

Flourish is a general purpose plant food. Flourish Excell is a source of Carbon fopr plants. 2 different ferts.

[limige]

thanks, i've got some homework now;) i'll update you guys later on. i'd really like to fill in the lower half of the tank.

i want a nice planted FISH tank. not a plant only tank, so my goal is to create a nice bottom cover, with some plants growing up higher and the swords and stuff creating some nice upper cover. i really don't want my fish getting lost in all the vegitation. but i think to achieve my goals i'll have to move into CO2 and ferts.

[senso]

Mike

There are a few fish one could add to avoid any compacting of the sand. Malaysian Trumpet Snails, but beware they tend to overpopulate if left unchecked, which usually requires apistos or a loach to keep the numbers down.

I periodically stir up the sand when doing large WC

Rossano